Mini 889 - Shopping Frenzy (Over)

[PaltryExcuse]

vote: Torqez

You know why.

the rest of us dont know why scum

vote julienvonwolfe

[/b]

I agree.

Vote: julienvonwolfe

[PaltryExcuse]

@Debonair Danny DiPietro: I shouldn't read your posts in the library. They don't appreciate loud noises such as laughter.

@muh316: I've only finished one game on the site, so I'm relatively new. I'm in 3 others currently.
Weirdly enough, when you put Torqez on L-4 because you wanted a bandwagon, you left the bandwagon on JVW that was at L-4.

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Or we could talk things out a bit, make an educated decision, perhaps still be wrong, and then get information from the cop...because according to the rules, there may be sanity issues. So we could get inaccurate information from the cop.

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On the same token JVW, even if it is a small lead at this point, you can't really blame Sweep for looking at DDD. I doubt DDD is fully advocating a lynch at this point, but if taken literally it can be read that way.

Stalling exploration are you?

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Not at all. I had considered that Sweep might be scum looking for an easy target.

All well and good, but it could be said the same of you.
Someone calls DDD out, on perhaps deliberately scummy behaviour, and then pressure builds on the guy who took the 'easy target'. Really, your assumption of this is based on DDD joking. Who's really the easier target? The joker, or the one who takes his joke seriously? Hard to tell from my point of view.

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@DDD: Is that a policy lynch then? I'd prefer a replacement at this point seeing as we're only 3 pages in, if we assume he will flake.

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Sure, call it that if you like. Seriously, I had a large normal game a few months ago where the entire scum team was extremely apathetic about playing and yet none of them replaced out. Why? Because players usually enjoy being scum and feel an obligation to the role more than they do as a random townsperson. So Torquez was providing pre-emptive cover for their lame scummy behavior in the future and we should string 'em up.

Is this common everywhere? I mean, from what I've read town are just as likely to lurk as scum. It depends on the player.

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm here.

As far as DDD being scum and trying to mislynch Torq, I find it hard to believe. I don't think scum-DDD would push that like he has this early playing scum. It's more of a town move IMHO.

As far as any scum-tells going on, I don't see anything from anyone at this point to make me cast a serious vote on anyone at this time to be honest.

If it was deadline and I had to vote someone on the other hand, it would prolly go to muh for p79. I would also like to point out that Sweep is a very close second for my vote. I say this because he random votes DDD then votes him for real again later on. I don't really agree with the lynch of Torq that DDD is pushing for, but I don't see scum-DDD pushing for that lynch so I'm inclined to think both as town. I would like to hear more from Sweep at this time and Muh on there votes for DDD and if they think scum-DDD would really push this hard for a mislynch as scum.

This entire post seems to defend DDD. Is this based on meta or a gut feeling?

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Sorry for being non-existant these past couple days. School got the best of me, and I will catch up after some sleep.

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@Chinaman: You still haven't answered my question about Post 86 about why you were defending DDD. It seemed to be based on meta or gut feeling.

Do you think your vote is a powerful tool and if so, do you think keeping track of it is important?

Yes. It is the only way townies can use their greatest power in the game, their intellect.

@DDD:
You attacked Torqez for mentioning that he was bored with the game, but stayed do to the fact he had some feeling of responsibility as scum and that's why he didn't replace out.
Now you're attacking Eleven...etc. for replacing out when attacked as scum.
So scum feel an allegiance to the game at one moment but quickly flee in others?

@JVW: I've seen minor questions from you, but I haven't seen you pursue anyone or any point as of yet. My vote will stay on you until I see some active scumhunting instead of more random bandwagonning to get people talking.

[PaltryExcuse]

I actually did answer that question, but I put Wolfy's quote in before my answer to it. It's in p121. I thought that answer would have answered it even though I didn't quote your question as you and Wolfy basically asked the same thing.

As far as asking you about the vote, I asked because your vote on JVW was from RVS, but I see now you have explained why you have kept it there. Do you think JVW is the scummiest in the game thus far?

Also, do you think my points on Torq are invalid? I see you don't buy into DDD's, but you haven't mentioned your thoughts on mine.

Ah, sorry I missed it during the read. If it was meta, I would argue from the limited meta read I got on DDD that his town and scum play are similar, and I wouldn't have been happy with the reasoning. I am new to the game and may not notice any significant changes, but overall I'm going on play for a read on DDD. Gut, I can understand.

About JVW: Yuppers. At this point, JVW's admitted random vote in order to 'get a reaction' is ridiculous. Other people were scumhunting, and to re-enter the RVS stage seems like he's taking away from the development that is going on and stalls the town more than helps it. Random bandwagons when the game is leaving RVS in my opinion is useless and is just a 'look I'm participating post' while actually hindering town progress.

About Torqez: You make a good point, he does read slightly OMGUS'y, and Scott's comment on how he has not scum hunted is not good either. I'd say he's second in my books.

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About this scum don't replace / town replace / speculating on why someone would stay in the game as I really want these speculations to end due to dead end these seem to lead to:
I'm pre-disposed to thinking this is individual. My only completed game had 3 replacements that weren't due to personal problems:
a) Newbie-town got pressured and left
b) Newbie just left
c) My scum partner was pressured and left

Leaving due to pressure IMO: Not a scum tell.
Leaving in general: Not a scum tell.
Staying around: I'd argue that the lack of conversation early on in the game caused some boredom, and why the unpressured newbie just left. Not a scum tell.

[PaltryExcuse]

I find it comical that you all think I'm scummy for not scumhunting, whereas a plethora of others have done even less.

That reasoning never fooled your mother, you expect it to work on us?

"But mom, everyone else is doing it."

Just to add on: giving us the people who you believe are not scumhunting with evidence would be a good idea. Right now all I see is deflection in this post.

No, I was just being mean because the moment I raised an interesting point that player disapeared meaning we don't even get an explanation for that behavior which annoyed me more than a little.

I agree, that sucks. So, I'm taking that post as more frustration than a point against Eleven's slot.

[PaltryExcuse]

I'm sure you think this post of yours is hunting for scum, but all it really is is OMGUS as stated before.

very town read up until this comment. if you're "sure" that torq thinks his post is actual scumhunting then you must think/know torq to be town. this reads as a genuine scumslip imo.

It could also be that Chinaman sees him as scum, and therefore he sees it as a poor attempt at faking scumhunting.
Personally, I don't have a scum / town read on him, so in this case I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

i have been thinking this one over quite a bit, but i think it is best to claim my role right off the bat for a number of reasons. i realize there is detriment to it as well, but the idea of having a confirmed townie in lylo is something we should plan for. i know this throws a wrench in the works, but i have never had this role before, nor played with it in a game, and after thinking it through and weighing the pros and cons i have decided to just claim.

bulletproof townie.

discuss.

What are other typical roles that have NK immunity?

[PaltryExcuse]

V/LA until late in the evening on the 14th / early morning of the 15th.

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I'm not convinced by Josh's case on muh.

Who would be? It's not even a case. muh could've come back and just posted something other than an explanation / apology. I don't like

However, muh, updated thoughts are good now.

JVW:

Your vote on torquez came with very little reasoning and at a time when the only debate going was torq vs DDD...

so?

How is it a good thing? What reasoning we did see is that you wanted conversation... however, conversation was (although admittedly slowly) was going on. What you did seemed to stifle and confuse more than progress.

On don_johnson's claim, it's not so much the matter of believe or don't believe. I haven't seen anything as particularly scummy at this point, so that's why I don't want to lynch him. The claim came early, and that's weird, but not scummy. Really, I'll decide with more info whether or not d_j is lying.

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP:

I don't like

the reasoning, and it definitely isn't worth a vote IMO.

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@Paltry: Where do you plan on getting more info regarding DJ? Ask more question.

Muh, say something relevant.

If you see something I'm missing feel free to go at it.

The only thing I would like clarified is why you aren't giving Chinaman the benefit of doubt. Meaning, if you agree with most of what he says why does one comment sway your opinion on the matter?

[PaltryExcuse]

Josh, doent your case on me seem a bit...... desperate. It seems like your looking for small reasons to get a lynch started.

Can you give us something with a bit more analysis?

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I don't think the case on JVW is weak, many of his posts you could say are an extension of others' arguments.

However, Josh's recent vote on muh and rapid unvote on some pressuring has be a bit irked. So...

Unvote
Vote: Josh Lyman

[PaltryExcuse]

@Paltry: Where do you plan on getting more info regarding DJ? Ask more question.

Muh, say something relevant.

If you see something I'm missing feel free to go at it.

The only thing I would like clarified is why you aren't giving Chinaman the benefit of doubt. Meaning, if you agree with most of what he says why does one comment sway your opinion on the matter?

...?
You're clearly mistaking me for someone else. You have yet to explain how you plan on getting more information out of DJ and I am voting wolfe not Chinaman. Noting one scummy statement was noted by ANOTHERPLAYER (DJ) isn't really refusing benefit of the doubt. However, your unbelievable reaction here looks really scummy, maybe you and chinaman are partners? And his absence forced you to try and protect him because of DJ catching a "slip."

Unvote; vote Paltry

I amy switch to a larger bandwagon, but I just don't like this play.

That question was for

DJ

, and he has already answered it above. Just because I'm not pursuing DJ as you want me to doesn't make me scum. Depending on DJ's actions, and his comments through the rest of the game, I'll judge him as I would any member of unconfirmed status. What exactly are you hoping for?

Secondly,

today

is

the deadline

. We need a lynch.

[PaltryExcuse]

In ISO, Scott appears to have done nothing worthwhile. He comments repeatedly on how the 'replacement talk' on day 1 was a series of null tells, and yet provides little of anything else. Then he brings up 'Torqez isn't scumhunting' and votes for him.

How interesting that you'd stick me for no contribution, yet you're agreeing with a person without even reading them in ISO. Yes, Scott himself has had excellent contribution to this game.

And I find it quite stupid that through your own admittance you say that RVS is stupid, and me even saying that we're struggling to get out of it, yet you vote me for not 'scumhunting' out of it.

Attempting to deflect attention onto me instead of adequately defending yourself is not helping your case.

Why is everyone trying to read into replacements so much? The first game I played in on this site I replaced in as scum. I have also replaced in as town. I think its a useless topic to pursue and is distracting from actual scum-hunting.

This post tells you Scott Brosius's opinions for the entire day, and it's not much.
A) Torqez isn't scumhunting. I'd argue that he did, and more so than Scott.
His attack on Chinaman was slightly OMGUSy, but he did go after him.
He points out a post of JVW's that he finds odd.
Overall, not a lot, but still some effort was made.
B) Replacement talk is not good.


Funny thing though. Scott says at one point he's found that scum often lurks. Then later, after disappearing for 3 days, he returns with a question for Josh. If he had questions about Josh, and there was a looming deadline, why didn't he vote for the lynch? The deadline appears at the top of page 1. Scum hoping a no lynch will go through? I think yes.

[PaltryExcuse]

I forgot this part:

Vote: Scott Brosius

[PaltryExcuse]

About muh:
We have 1 revealed scum, and he voted for muh in the RVS, and his reasoning for voting muh (plus the deadline) got him lynched. Josh Lyman had minimal pressure (there was 1 vote) on him when he voted muh, so distancing doesn't seem to be the case here for me. Based on Josh Lyman's play, I doubt muh is scum.

Muh on the other hand started the game out with random bandwagoning.... and that's about it. He voted DDD for pursuing a lynch on Torquez without an adequate amount of reasoning. Other than that, his contribution has been minimal. As you said, his defense was poor. He hasn't attempted to look for scum on Day 2. Based on muh's play, muh seems a bit scummy.

Overall, I get a neutral read on muh. I'd rather see a lynch on someone who repeatedly asked Josh questions and seemed to never vote for him (Chinaman) or a non-contributing wonder (Scott Brosius).

[PaltryExcuse]

Muh, at this point, opinions on others would be good.

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A poor reason for voting someone can be scum trying to look like they are participating when they're really not... And possibly push a lynch on someone outside their scum team.

This is game is so odd as every person who has a vote, minus muh, seems to have disappeared...

[PaltryExcuse]

And what makes that a good reason for voting me

You're not paying attention and you have no interest in actually scumhunting. Town would be paying attention and has a huge interest in scumhunting.

I also believe your not of any use to us either so is ABR and so is Chinaman. Why not vote all of them. Why not lynch them? If it was that simple nobody would ever sign up. There is no slips I've yet seen except for chinamans

I see this as a contradiction:
1) You suspected Scott Brosius for his appearance sans-vote so close to deadline that we almost had a no-lynch. Slip? Yes.
2) You voted DDD yesterday as you saw his pressuring of Torqez as being reasonless. Also known as, a slip.

Unvote; Vote: muh316

[PaltryExcuse]

I agree with Liam about China's last post.
A) If you think it is a mislynch, why are you remaining on muh China?
B) He calls Liam a liar, however, there was a power role claim in don_johnson. Clearly he doesn't see a need to read the thread.

Unvote; Vote: Chinaman

muh's play still rankles though.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Chinaman: You say in post 321 that you could see muh316 being a mislynch. Why didn't you unvote then?
I still don't know why you questioned Josh throughout day 1 while you voted others. Your pressure was on Torqez, heavily, until today where now you've voted muh. What happened to that pressure.

^^I like this post

Adel: One thing I think you are missing is that Muh wasn't actually FORCED to claim. In fact, once I started posting, his

wagon lost steam quite rapidly

before he claimed. Then he went and claimed anyway. Other than that, I'm on the same thought process with him and JL.

Thanks for helping me catch up!
Over which interval of posts did his wagon lose steam over?
Over that period of time, he went from how many votes to how many?

Answering these questions is also a good idea.
All in all, these reasons are why I like where my vote is.

I just skimmed scot's posts in iso. What was his slip supposed to be? I didn't see it.

@Adel: The main reason Scott was getting early pressure, at least from me, was he was anti-productive day 1 and he appeared right before deadline to do nothing about the imminent deadline and us without a lynch. A lynch which ended up being scum thanks to an extension and Wulfy's hammer.

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and dj's amazing scumhunting prowess.

True enough. True enough. And, begrudgingly, DJ's amazing scumhunting prowess...

[PaltryExcuse]

.
adel: Post 321 is where he said it

funny, 322 makes you a lot more scummy to me than 321 makes Chinaman look scummy

You've said a lot about CallMeLiam, especially every time he mentions Chinaman, but what is your opinion on Chinaman?

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Global warning: Today is the 8th, and the deadline is the 12th at 8:00AM. That's less than 4 days away. Post now about a lynch you could see happening is good now.

[PaltryExcuse]

So, Chinaman. You've still left some things left unanswered for me:
Firstly, in reference to muh's wagon losing steam, Adel asked you these two questions:

Over which interval of posts did his wagon lose steam over?
Over that period of time, he went from how many votes to how many?

Secondly, you seemed to promote a Torqez lynch yesterday, do you still suspect him? And if so, why'd you vote muh before pressuring the lynch you wanted yesterday?

@ABR: I stand behind my Global Warning.

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Sorry all, I've gotta pull out due to personal reasons.

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Comments on my own play: I sucked. I have no idea why Liam killed me. I thought I sucked.

Prominent others:
CallMeLiam - When you flipped scum after Night 3 I was shocked. I never would have pegged you for scum. Kudos. Really the one question is: Why kill me? In my opinion, I sucked this game.

Adel - You brought life into a pretty laborious game. Plus, you cornered the SK. I have to say I was very impressed.

ABR - What the?

julienvonwolfe - I approve whole-heartedly of your night actions. I felt you cleared Adel, and made it a DDD vs. don_johnson situation.

don_johnson - Well done. Until your flub on day 4 with admitting the Liam kill and the reasons for it. Did you think Liam was scum or was that a surprise to you as well?

nhammen - Thanks for modding despite the arduous first couple days.

Either way, post my death was very interesting to read and keep track of. Especially day 4.

[PaltryExcuse]

In retrospect, if I attracted the scumkill away from the power roles, I'd guess I did half of my job.