Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[Benmage]

Why? Because I

believe

what I'm telling Ben. if you think someone is scum, then shoot them.

Me to shoot dj right?

Its a policy shooting/lynch that has me a desire in this area. Just like i push policy lynches all the time on harmful players, so have i here. I had more of a town read on him despite his consistent negative read on me. The policy lynch comes in because his actions and voting habits and statements have been really poor. Moreover his recent play is abysmal and so i want to iso him.

[VP Baltar]

I'm sure you can find a game where Vi is town. Did you mean the one where Vi is town and I'm playing too? Or what? If so, why wouldn't you also want the ones where Vi is scum since a comprehensive meta would be what you want?

Don't be intentionally dense, you know I mean a game where Vi was town and you were there too. I don't need scum game because I have a very specific point I am researching. Please link your most recent game together where she was town in your next post. Thanks.

What you are demanding is that you instantly leap on anyone doing anything suspicious the very instant they do it. Play your own game of mafia. I'm going to feed them the rope and then hang them with it once it gets long enough and not before.

No, I'm not "demanding" any such thing. I'm saying if you had some giant case (which was based on posts before you shot her, then why wouldn't you post it and get the lynch? There was no need to 'feed out more rope' if she had already made enough actions for you to think you had a solid case on her.

Fearmongering? I believe its called holding people to their stated convictions.

Bull. It's called trying to start a gun fight so other town players will die before you get lynched.

For me, VP looks way to much like he knew Vi was town before he flipped.

Well, you know, she did claim on her (first) deathbed. It's called being able to read motivations, which you are either completely incapable of or are scum. I'm sticking with the latter.

Does that satisfy you for today?

No, why should it? I want you dead and NAO.

[Sotty7]

@Amished

I read the game you gave me and I think I get your point. It is something I have put on my back burner for the time being. I am still interested in the flaws you saw in Ecto's case. if you could point them out when you get back from your vacation I would appreciate it.

I'm also guessing from Vi's result that there is a random factor to the shooting. I could also have gotten entirely lucky and gotten a random kill shot, but I don't think so.

At this moment I think that we all have different skill levels with the gun. Vi's shot however could just be flavor as she would have been dead so unable to get a good shot off. Something I haven't ruled out at least.

ecto: let's lynch confid. i don't understand why he thinks vi's flip would be any more "interesting" after he used his healing powers to save vi in the first place. on top of that his play has been horrible and his tremendous overreaction to the simple one word question "why?" was downright laughable. if not confid, then who? my second choice would be benmage with vp knocking on the door.

I'd prefer to keep him around until it becomes clear we need to look under that rock. For me, VP looks way to much like he knew Vi was town before he flipped.

How?

@d3x

What's your opinion of Ecto's choice to shoot Vi, did you think his case was valid? What has happened to your Nacho suspicion? He is barely posting yet you seemed a little too eager to vote for Don. You have any other suspects?

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: vp balthazar

benmage: what sense does it make to policy lynch/shoot who you have a town read on? if you have a town read on me, then how can my play be "abysmal"?

[Sotty7]

Don that second question is horrible unless you believe that only town players can play good and we all know that isn't the case.

[Benmage]

unvote, vote: vp balthazar

benmage: what sense does it make to policy lynch/shoot who you have a town read on? if you have a town read on me, then how can my play be "abysmal"?

Same reason you lynch a lurker or whatever other category policy lynches fall under. They'll lose you the game in lylo, and theres always a chance of hitting a scum. I had a town read on you, but the play of late makes me question it more. Thus wanting to iso you.

[don_johnson]

town players can play bad. town players can play abysmal. if they play abysmal they generally get lynched because people get a scum or null read on them. not because of a town read. you don't "policy" lynch players with town reads. that's the point.

iso away big guy.

[Benmage]

Right well why i do that...lets start the anti VPB campaign.

Lets see... Nacho hasnt posted in nearly a week...awesome.

Amish is away.

Well lets start with the non voters.

@Pork/Ecto

Who are your guys main suspects, and what are your opinions on VPB specifically?

[Benmage]

DJ

i'm sure VPB will ask, but you may as well give reason for your vote.

[VP Baltar]

ben, what do you think of ecto shooting Vi and why don't you wisen up so we can actually lynch scum ecto here?

[Benmage]

ben, what do you think of ecto shooting Vi and why don't you wisen up so we can actually lynch scum ecto here?

I read him in iso. His case was ok. I kinda wanted to read Vi in iso. Probably still should/will. Hell a whole thread review would be ideal. But all things in time. I just replaced into a game...I've never done this. The game was only 21 pages in when i joined, i'm on like page 17...its eaten up most of my time. I should be done soon and can refocus here. However doing dj at the moment.

But you sit as most scummy to me...so how should i wisen up? Not go after my #1 suspect...?? I am gauging the people not voting, asking who they think is most suspicious, while also asking about you, my top suspect.

Moving past all the "play better" banter between you and i, i think i'm pushing this thread forward.

@ MOD

Like i said.

Nacho needs a prod

. 6 days or so since his last post.

And Amish is away. So we can only accomplish so much. Starting with people not voting seems like a good idea...the rest will come.

I know where you stand. Ecto = scum. What are your thoughts on DJ?

[VP Baltar]

But you sit as most scummy to me...so how should i wisen up? Not go after my #1 suspect...?? I am gauging the people not voting, asking who they think is most suspicious, while also asking about you, my top suspect.

I think you should wisen up by letting up with your confirmation bias you have against me and actually do some scumhunting. I'm back from V/LA now, so you're argument that I'm not contributing isn't really holding up anymore.

Why do you say his case was "ok" when you claimed to have a major town read on Vi? Why are you not feeling him as scum when he shot your major town read who had claimed town after she thought she was going to die? It just doesn't make sense.

What are your thoughts on DJ?

When ecto flips scum, I will be happy to lynch him for his blind agreement with the horrible cases ecto is putting forth. I gave him town points early for the original shot on Vi, but he's lost his credibility with me since then.

---

pwnz- I want your thoughts on Ecto and all the other major lynch candidates.

[d3x]

What's your opinion of Ecto's choice to shoot Vi, did you think his case was valid?

I felt like p435 was fairly solid, but I'm very wary about his p513 considering...

I don't expect to miss, and I don't expect to simply wound him either.

Why would you consider the possibility of getting extremely lucky with a kill shot if you expect a kill shot based on your RolePM? Smells fishy to me.

What has happened to your Nacho suspicion? He is barely posting yet you seemed a little too eager to vote for Don.

Nothing happened to my suspicion. d_j made a pretty obv scummy move, imo. This combined with his shooting Vi earlier for a weak reason and saying that he 'didn't know' if it would work only reinforce that read. I'm not interested in shooting him because I think it could spark a free-for-all and I think that would be bad for us.

You have any other suspects?

See my Iso15.

[Benmage]

But you sit as most scummy to me...so how should i wisen up? Not go after my #1 suspect...?? I am gauging the people not voting, asking who they think is most suspicious, while also asking about you, my top suspect.

I think you should wisen up by letting up with your confirmation bias you have against me and actually do some scumhunting. I'm back from V/LA now, so you're argument that I'm not contributing isn't really holding up anymore.

Why do you say his case was "ok" when you claimed to have a major town read on Vi? Why are you not feeling him as scum when he shot your major town read who had claimed town after she thought she was going to die? It just doesn't make sense.

What are your thoughts on DJ?

When ecto flips scum, I will be happy to lynch him for his blind agreement with the horrible cases ecto is putting forth. I gave him town points early for the original shot on Vi, but he's lost his credibility with me since then.

Well i certainly didnt declare ecto town. But i said his iso 45 the case on Vi...didnt seem that bad. Yes i had a good town read on Vi, but his reasoning for shooting from his PoV seemed understandable even if i disagreed. I haven't ignored him. That made me want to reread Vi. Theres other things currently on my plate/agenda that i'm taking care of first.

I think a player post of everyone listing from scummiest to town maybe be in order for/from everyone. (off the top of my head) I dont know where ecto might fall, but 2nd(scummiest) might be possible.

Note: It isn't your contribution now. It was your early game contribution prior to going V/LA.

Also your attack on me was pretty bad. Pretty sure you pulled some hypocritical maneuvers too. I mean this all off the top of my head. I could bullet a case for you if you like.

[Ectomancer]

Basically VP goes through the entire game without ever challenging Vi, even though Vi took a poke or two in VP's direction. Tiptoe'ing around is the impression I got.

After Vi was shot the first time by Don, VP goes directly into a defense of Ben, never seeming to even consider that Vi might be scum.

You damn dirty ape.


Unfortunately, I get the feeling that dj might be town in spite of everything.

VP Baltar's response doesn't do anything for me but solidify my previous read. Please kill him and add another scum game to his collection.

I know it's sour grapes to get knocked out of a game early, but dj's right about it being unlikely for scum to daykill like that. Not saying he gets a free pass or anything, but doesn't seem like a scum move to me.

I don't follow why you're saying scum wouldn't do that.

Because if he's scum, it's an excessive amount of heat on him Day 1. If I was scum and had a daykill, I would certainly save it for later in the game when it is going to do the most damage and work in my favor.

Shooting someone day 1 for little reasoning isn't sound strategy.

I see nothing in there but early excuses for when Vi turns up town.

Yeah, it occured to me after I posted that Vi may simply be dead dead...which I would prefer to having one of my few town reads get killed.

Starting... when?

Notice where my vote is at. Still very much want Ecto dead...and that's without a major catch up yet!

I do think you're town Vi, but very pissed that you're just shooting.

This part is confusing as well. He's happy that Vi is dead and not someone VP thinks is town...but nowhere did we see where VP made any move in Vi's direction. It doesn't fit with his posts. Then a couple posts later he says "yeah I do think you're town".

Yeah well I think that idea came through, just the question is, how did you know?

Is it an entirely strong case? Not really. He may have never challenged Vi over anything because he never saw an opportunity or other items (like Ben) where more pressing to him. Still, from my point of view, I see unjustified bias in his attitude towards Vi.


VP, you can use a search function as well as I can. I don't know who you are puffing up towards to demand information "in my next post" you can find yourself. I might get around to it when I get a chance.

[Benmage]

Ecto post 532 please

[Ectomancer]

What's your opinion of Ecto's choice to shoot Vi, did you think his case was valid?

I felt like p435 was fairly solid, but I'm very wary about his p513 considering...

I don't expect to miss, and I don't expect to simply wound him either.

Why would you consider the possibility of getting extremely lucky with a kill shot if you expect a kill shot based on your RolePM? Smells fishy to me.

Smells like you want it to smell fishy. I explained from the start that the function of my role PM was in question and was definitely a minor part of why I shot Vi. When I saw him dead, I rejoiced and promptly posted "Soldier bitch", and then I saw that Vi missed completely. So we had a wounding shot, a killing shot, and a miss. While I still consider it 99% likely that I interpreted it correctly and I won't miss if I try again, the fact still remains that we appear to have random factors involved in either the shootings, or perhaps all guns aren't the same. So it is

entirely

possible that I'm assuming I'm a crack shot, when in fact I could have rolled a kill shot and next time could just as easily miss.
Definitely not what I wanted out of that. Throw in the idea that Vi was already dead when he hit the ground and his shot

could

have missed because of that.

We don't know

.

Why in the hell would you want me lying or hiding that kind of information when the thought comes to mind?

[Ectomancer]

Ecto post 532 please

I look to be going through that now, or did you just miss the entire post on VP Baltar's interactions with Vi during this game?

[Ectomancer]

Here you go. While your there, you damn well better read town Ecto as well as town Vi.

viewtopic.php?t=9032&highlight=ectomancer

[Ectomancer]

EBWOP:

After Vi was shot the first time by Don, VP goes directly into a defense of

DON

, never seeming to even consider that Vi might be scum.

[VP Baltar]

I see nothing in there but early excuses for when Vi turns up town.

What? How the frak is me saying I think don is town for shooting making excuses for Vi when she turns up town. ENGLISH PLEASE.

Basically VP goes through the entire game without ever challenging Vi, even though Vi took a poke or two in VP's direction.

Again, I don't see how me not OMGUSing Vi when she attacked me is indicative of me "knowing" Vi is town as opposed to simply having a read that was semi-townish. You're just quoting things and going "see, that supports my point" when it doesn't make any sort of logical sense.

VP, you can use a search function as well as I can. I don't know who you are puffing up towards to demand information "in my next post" you can find yourself. I might get around to it when I get a chance.

I'm not puffing up anything and you have absolutely no reason to not provide a link to a game. Unless of course you have something to hide, which you likely do.

Was that the most recent game you had with Vi as town? That is what I'm looking for. The game you provided is very old and can't really be used as any sort of meta imo.

[don_johnson]

blahblahblahblahhblhahblahlalhjhsdidiBLAH! and blah blah blah. blah. i'm scum. lynch me.

i'm ^^ partner

good thing i'm lurking so as not to end up getting tied to these two...

[Benmage]

Ecto post 532 please

I look to be going through that now, or did you just miss the entire post on VP Baltar's interactions with Vi during this game?

I did. And it reads that VPB has been inconsistent, and the whole post is in general opposition of him.

So why not vote?

[Ectomancer]

VP, you can use a search function as well as I can. I don't know who you are puffing up towards to demand information "in my next post" you can find yourself. I might get around to it when I get a chance.

I'm not puffing up anything and you have absolutely no reason to not provide a link to a game. Unless of course you have something to hide, which you likely do.

Was that the most recent game you had with Vi as town? That is what I'm looking for. The game you provided is very old and can't really be used as any sort of meta imo.

Use the damn search function yourself.

[Ectomancer]

Ecto post 532 please

I look to be going through that now, or did you just miss the entire post on VP Baltar's interactions with Vi during this game?

I did. And it reads that VPB has been inconsistent, and the whole post is in general opposition of him.

So why not vote?

He may or may not be the choice for today. You are not the only one who needs a re-read and doesn't get to it. He does stand out for now, but so do those who faded into the background. Contrary to my bravado, hitting town

does

also hit my confidence...