Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[Benmage]

^Understandable. Got it.

[Ectomancer]

I'm not puffing up anything and you have absolutely no reason to not provide a link to a game. Unless of course you have something to hide, which you likely do.

Oh yes, I'm totally hiding the fact that I've played many games with Vi as many different role configurations between the two of us. When you get through cherry picking through those games to make whatever point you want to find support for, you will feel so much better knowing you did the research and legwork with that oh so difficult search button yourself. Irritates the piss out of me to go out of my way to do it for you only to have you bitch about the age of the fricking game.
I think I very well may have been scum in the last 3 games with Vi (hence his comment that I am always scum). Maybe you could find out and then tell us that statistically I should be scum in 4 games in a row with Vi?

I don't know what you want, go find it yourself.

[VP Baltar]

Oh yes, I'm totally hiding the fact that I've played many games with Vi as many different role configurations between the two of us.

Yes, actually you very much seem to be. You can't accuse me of cherry picking games when I'm expressly allowing YOU to choose the game I look at. I have a very specific point to make and by allowing you to pick the game, I will show that it's not me just being selective.

That being said, you can't provide a link to a game that is over a year old and expect me to use that as meta.

I am perfectly capable of using the search function, no problem, but I am giving you the opportunity to make sure my research isn't biased. If you don't like it, then I'll just do it myself, but don't bitch about it later.

[VP Baltar]

Also,

Maybe you could find out and then tell us that statistically I should be scum in 4 games in a row with Vi?

This is a major irrelevancy.

[VP Baltar]

@ benmage- I would still like you to look at the timeline you are accusing me of not actively participating over. I had no more than five days before I left for my vacation. How much time during that period do you think I had for pouring over MS threads, especially one that had just started? Like I said before, stop being biased about this issue and actually think about it. Your reasoning sucks and the more you cling to it, the more I am assured that you are scum with ecto.

[VP Baltar]

I see nothing in there but early excuses for when Vi turns up town.

What? How the frak is me saying I think don is town for shooting making excuses for Vi when she turns up town. ENGLISH PLEASE.

Basically VP goes through the entire game without ever challenging Vi, even though Vi took a poke or two in VP's direction.

Again, I don't see how me not OMGUSing Vi when she attacked me is indicative of me "knowing" Vi is town as opposed to simply having a read that was semi-townish. You're just quoting things and going "see, that supports my point" when it doesn't make any sort of logical sense.

Since you seemed to have missed this the first time, dear.

[Ectomancer]

No, you denying doesn't wash it away. You don't look like a town member who thought Vi might be town to me. In case you hadn't noticed, "Quoting things and going "see, that supports my point" is the way this is done. Your "Vi is town" bias doesn't look to have game basis to me, especially when Vi said himself he wasn't playing townish.

[VP Baltar]

Explain to me better the points I quoted because I honestly do not understand the arguments you are making. HOW does me saying don shooting Vi looked townish on him relate to my thoughts about Vi? HOW does me not OMGUSing Vi mean that I KNEW she was town? You're not being clear at all HOW the quotes support your argument, that's the crucial point you are missing. You're leaving huge gaps that you expect people to fill in with their imaginations, which is indeed not how this game is played.

And just because Vi claimed to be acting scummy does not mean everyone would have a scum read on her. Ben claimed to have a town read on her, do you think he "knew" she would flip town before you shot her?

[Ectomancer]

Nice twist there. I don't read you as calling Don town, I see you immediately launch into a defense of Don's actions, never wondering whether Vi might actually be scum. If his move was townish, somewhere in there you must consider that Don might be

right

, but you never do. You just launch right into defending against a townie death. That displays bias.
Another twist on words to call questioning Vi "omgus". You don't go after Vi because you knew not to do it. Any altercation in the long run would only reveal Vi to be town, so you didn't pursue anything and let Vi's pokes at you just slide off your back.

[Ectomancer]

Ben claimed a town read, but I didn't see his commentary display a bias the way that yours does. In your case, I see objectivity lacking.

[VP Baltar]

Nice twist there. I don't read you as calling Don town, I see you immediately launch into a defense of Don's actions, never wondering whether Vi might actually be scum. If his move was townish, somewhere in there you must consider that Don might be right, but you never do.

And again, they are not related. I wasn't making a value judgement on Don's actions one way or the other. I made a judgement of his

motivation

, which I believed at the time would have been more likely to come from town. You're still not making a clear correrlation of how that has anything to do with Vi's alignment.

Another twist on words to call questioning Vi "omgus". You don't go after Vi because you knew not to do it. Any altercation in the long run would only reveal Vi to be town, so you didn't pursue anything and let Vi's pokes at you just slide off your back.

L-O-L....so you are suggesting that a scum would never attack a townie because "in the long run" the town player would be revealed to be town. Have you played mafia before? If anything, scum or MORE likely to get indignant about being attacked and respond in kind than town players are. Also, how exactly does a scum player get a mislynch if they never argue with a town person for fear of being revealed later?

I can provide ample town meta of myself ignoring attacks on me if I think they are coming from another town player. I don't see any benefit of arguing with someone if I don't think they are scum and it would actually further my end of winning the game.

I hope everyone is noting how much Ecto is scrambling to divert attention away from the fact that he shot Vi after she had very clearly made herself known to be town with a claim on her deathbed.

[VP Baltar]

Ben claimed a town read, but I didn't see his commentary display a bias the way that yours does. In your case, I see objectivity lacking.

Those are some keen buzz words you have there.

If anything, ben was much more "biased" in the sense that he was die hard saying Vi had to be town according to his read.

[Ectomancer]

Nice scrambling, but I'm not reading anything to change my mind on what I believe that I see.

[VP Baltar]

Nice scrambling, but I'm not reading anything to change my mind on what I believe that I see.

Wow, how town of you to not want to have an informed opinion.

[Benmage]

@ benmage- I would still like you to look at the timeline you are accusing me of not actively participating over. I had no more than five days before I left for my vacation. How much time during that period do you think I had for pouring over MS threads, especially one that had just started? Like I said before, stop being biased about this issue and actually think about it. Your reasoning sucks and the more you cling to it, the more I am assured that you are scum with ecto.

The activity, and your "level of play" aside...you were hypocritical and your attack on me was down right bad, if not also opportunistic.

[Benmage]

Ben claimed a town read, but I didn't see his commentary display a bias the way that yours does. In your case, I see objectivity lacking.

Those are some keen buzz words you have there.

If anything, ben was much more "biased" in the sense that he was die hard saying Vi had to be town according to his read.

Yeah i had a damn good early town read on her, and shooting her baffled the shit out of me. Its why i read ecto in iso. DJ's shot also baffled the crap out of me.

You guys may be misconstruing what she said also, or maybe I am. She said she thought she had been playing a scummy game....well what does that mean? Did she think he play had simply been sub-par? Was she purposely trying to play antitown?(i doubt that Vi would do this)....so...anyways, regardless she did some damn obvious town moves in my book.

Just rereading DJ's iso in his iso 7, i think he defends an accusation by Vi that he isnt bringing anything to the table. He gives a meager defense and Vi is dead on. You all should go back an look at DJ's iso to see what I am saying, its like 5 lines altogether.

[VP Baltar]

The activity, and your "level of play" aside...you were hypocritical and your attack on me was down right bad, if not also opportunistic.

I have addressed why I don't believe anything about the attack was "hypocritical" and your reply was simply "nah uh", so please keep tunneling without any sort of real argument, it's quite entertaining. It is also amusing that no matter how your arguments are refuted, you change your story. Now my activity and "level of play", which were the crux of your attack (along with meta), are now somehow irrelevant.

Oh the circles we run in...let's do something productive and lynch obv scum ecto now.

You guys may be misconstruing what she said also, or maybe I am. She said she thought she had been playing a scummy game....well what does that mean? Did she think he play had simply been sub-par? Was she purposely trying to play antitown?(i doubt that Vi would do this)....so...anyways, regardless she did some damn obvious town moves in my book.

This is my point. I don't see how he is saying that I am obv scum for not attacking her, when she clearly wasn't outstandingly scummy. It's a pretty ridiculous statement on Ecto's part, which I think comes from him trying to fake his way onto the wagon you are trying to build on me.

[Benmage]

The activity, and your "level of play" aside...you were hypocritical and your attack on me was down right bad, if not also opportunistic.

I have addressed why I don't believe anything about the attack was "hypocritical" and your reply was simply "nah uh", so please keep tunneling without any sort of real argument, it's quite entertaining. It is also amusing that no matter how your arguments are refuted, you change your story. Now my activity and "level of play", which were the crux of your attack (along with meta), are now somehow irrelevant.

Oh the circles we run in...let's do something productive and lynch obv scum ecto now.

Dude(t), dont misconstrue what i'm saying. I am not dropping the early meta/activity issue. (Even tho all along i said it was a weak point(but nullthere))...I merely said put it aside for the moment, to illustrate how each of my points stand on their own. Where did I answer "nah uh"...come on...

You voted me for "wagon hopping" also for not knowing why i was voting. Wagon hopping is a meh point. Sure i guess its true, but imo altogether null, and i can explain if you like. However sayin i didnt know why I was voting was a Blatant Lie. Time and time again i directly refer back to my actions. I found her statement on my own peculair...i.e. something off, i wanted her to re-explain the difference. Reading others, they saw the same thin I did. Amish put an additional twist on it that made me go wow. So i voted to speed the process of her return and to answer my demands.

You made an opportunistic jump onto me because my first vote on nacho may not have been the best. And you are guilty of your own medicine by wagon hoping as well.

I'm tired of this circular spew, i've answered this question/issue/everything about it more than enough.

You guys may be misconstruing what she said also, or maybe I am. She said she thought she had been playing a scummy game....well what does that mean? Did she think he play had simply been sub-par? Was she purposely trying to play antitown?(i doubt that Vi would do this)....so...anyways, regardless she did some damn obvious town moves in my book.

This is my point. I don't see how he is saying that I am obv scum for not attacking her, when she clearly wasn't outstandingly scummy. It's a pretty ridiculous statement on Ecto's part, which I think comes from him trying to fake his way onto the wagon you are trying to build on me.

I havent really focused or given much thought to his attack on you.

This 3 person peanutgallery of bantery is going nowhere. We need others insight.

[Ectomancer]

Nice scrambling, but I'm not reading anything to change my mind on what I believe that I see.

Wow, how town of you to not want to have an informed opinion.

Look, I'm not voting you, and I'm not interested in making the rest of the day about you. If you have more to say on it, please say it. Clearly I'm not ready to throw an entire case behind it. You should be happy about that after complaining that I didnt bring up a case on Vi until I shot him.
What you want me to do is justify why I shot rather than lynch. That's plain and simple. You find out, and if wrong, you don't give scum an opportunity for a night kill. Is it abit lazy? Maybe a tad. While I usually feel pretty good about my ability to take a case to lynch, it also takes alot out of you, demanding alot of time and patience. Considering Vi is easily top 5 scummer for me, I really didn't want to tango either. I shot. Now we have words we know for certain belong to a town member, the

only

one confirmed to us. My plan is to go back and read what Vi had to say in that light.

[Benmage]

^^^Reads a bit like back pedaling. VPB is voting you, fyi.

And cheah, i'm building the case *flex*.

[VP Baltar]

Now we have words we know for certain belong to a town member, the only one confirmed to us. My plan is to go back and read what Vi had to say in that light.

lol, you're my hero ecto! If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have a confirmed dead townie. GJ Dude.

[pwnz]

pwnz- I want your thoughts on Ecto and all the other major lynch candidates.

My vote is still on ectomancer for the reason that he was infinitely sure of nacho being scum before changing his mind only one page later. It seems to me that he likes to bring a lot of blame to the table but won't take responsibility for any of his brash actions, and now we had what looked like a confirmed townie on a death bead spilling everything and ecto still saw it important to kill that person. The fact that ectomancer seems to be infallible in his own mind after he decides who is scum is ridiculous. *hic

Who else would you consider major lynch candidates? *hic

[pwnz]

My plan is to go back and read what Vi had to say in that light.

One of Amished and Ectomancer is virtually guaranteed to be scum for the third party speculation. Since VP Baltar just called out Amished and since Ectomancer has done even less for scumhunting, please do me a flavor and kill Ectomancer.

*hic

[Benmage]

pwnz- I want your thoughts on Ecto and all the other major lynch candidates.

My vote is still on ectomancer for the reason that he was infinitely sure of nacho being scum before changing his mind only one page later. It seems to me that he likes to bring a lot of blame to the table but won't take responsibility for any of his brash actions, and now we had what looked like a confirmed townie on a death bead spilling everything and ecto still saw it important to kill that person. The fact that ectomancer seems to be infallible in his own mind after he decides who is scum is ridiculous. *hic

Who else would you consider major lynch candidates? *hic

Omg, this point is ages ago...But ok ...This isnt meant to be a defense of ecto, but im just a little bewildered that hes cool with his vote here, for this point so long ago, after so much has happened since.

uhmmm Why do you only care about who VPB thinks....

what do you think about VPB's alignment? How about some of the points i've made against him.

[pwnz]

Omg, this point is ages ago...But ok ...This isnt meant to be a defense of ecto, but im just a little bewildered that hes cool with his vote here, for this point so long ago, after so much has happened since.

uhmmm Why do you only care about who VPB thinks....

what do you think about VPB's alignment? How about some of the points i've made against him.

Just because the initial vote was ages ago doesn't mean that ecto has been doing anything of late to make me want to vote for someone else. As to why I only, "care about who VPB thinks" I don't, but I was asked to give an opinion. Finally, I have no current opinion on VPB, and do not have any strong feelings toward either the scum or the town side. *hic