Mini 880 - Mini Quick and Dirty - Game Over


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:39 pm

Post by charlatan »

VP Baltar wrote:
charlatan wrote:Of course, as it turns out, those not on the bandwagon were correct. Would it be fair to say that your vote on Amished was almost entirely based on gut? And that your decision to stay off of the Sando wagon was based on gut?
The Amished vote was mostly based on gut and the fact that it was the only other real lynchable wagon. Someone has to go and I was having severe misgivings about Sando at the last minute. Those weren't based on gut, so much as his frustration seeming honest to me.
Understandable. That is one of those vaguely weasely answers -- "something just felt genuine", etc. However, those answers are often legitimate, so I'm inclined to take your word for it.
Papa Zito wrote: This is exactly where I'm coming from. It seems fairly obvious that they looked at us sniping back and forth at the end of Day 1 and decided to see if they could push for a mislynch today. I'm both honored and amused given my horrendous play thus far.
In a newbie game, maybe, or even a game with a less able playerbase. But this is by far the most competent group of players on the whole that I've been in the company of so far (granted, I've only played a small number of games), and that seems a little too simplistic. I somewhat doubt the night kill was as much about you as it was about SerialClergyman.

I re-read his play with his death in mind, and in retrospect he did a fair amount of talk about power roles and claiming from the get-go which, in the absence of a better target, may have rung bells. On Day 1 the right call is not always clear for scum either, after all.

Regardless, I think nightkill speculation is not helpful to us, especially at this point, and I think what Scien is doing is muddying the waters. I have not decided yet if that is scummy or just a bad call, but I've certainly made a note of it.
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:11 pm

Post by Scien »

Sigh... just clearing up a confusion.

VP clearly didn't understand the post he called 'WTF', and it was pretty obvious to me what PapaZ was going on on about.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:51 pm

Post by AGar »

Long read is over. Whew. 19 pages later, my brain is toast.

Three major points for me:

1. ODDin rubs me the wrong way. A lot of things stuck out to me, convincing me I need to iso him tomorrow during my office hour. But I generally dislike his play and cases.

2. Zorblag, you're on my top 2 right now. Your D1 play was epically non-committal, and seemingly cautious as well. Again, I need to iso this to get a more wholistic read on things, but I'm not liking it.

3. There should probably be way more pressure on me since I have not really contributed as much as I would personally have liked to in this game. It actually pisses me off that no one has come after me for anything yet, because I gain reads that way. :(
VP Baltar wrote:Papa Zito's 409 is just one big wtf.
AGar wrote:No.

oDDin, I don't like that vote.

Vote: oDDin
What, why? I don't see any problem with his PZ vote.
I pointed out my reasons. I also am garnering a town read in that direction (PZ) right now, so with the massive undercomprehension I had at that time of voting, it was a good decision in my eyes.
Raskol wrote:-AGar---would you say it's usual for you to park your vote all Day? Were you that sure that ekiM was scum?
It's less of that and more of I ended up being on V/LA for the 4 days preceding the deadline. I don't intend on repeating that feat this time around.

WRT Scien's NK stuff - I really don't think it muddies the water if you can look at it objectively. I hate how people want to steer clear of NK analysis until "later in the game." I, for one, find it fascinating and useful. Obviously not a concrete case in itself, but definitely something that can be used, imo.

More later. For now, it's pushing 5 AM and I'm going to get some much needed sleep (woo class in 7 hours!!!).
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:54 pm

Post by AGar »

Shit, quick EBWOP:

I left VP's comment about PZ's post #409 in for a reason.

It's not a WTF, at least in my eyes.

Pretty much boils down to one of the few times I would use meta - I understand the oddities/quirks of how PZ plays, and the post didn't set off any red bells for me.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:18 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Starting reverse read from page 19.
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:00 am

Post by Ojanen »

Zorblag wrote:@Ojanen, distractions of the sort that Sando was making with his complaining about people asking for opinions are scummy because they take resources away from more productive lines of inquiry in a case where he could have simply given his opinions. That so much time was spent talking about something so essentially irrelevant almost certainly prevented the town from doing other useful scumhunting.
It also fixated attention firmly to him, in your words
Zorblag wrote:It was an easy thing to make go away and yet you seemed to encourage it which made it a distraction.
My question was born out of not relating to your thought process here at all - drawing attention, specifically negative attention to self on something that "is an easy thing to make go away" as the first point in your reasons to find Sando scummy made me question if this was genuine.

You said yesterday that
Zorblag wrote:From an internal perspective Troll feels that Troll be making reasonable progress for a day one in terms of gaining what Troll will need to make reads on future days so Troll be happy enough with that.
Do you have more results to share at this point from this internal process you were happy enough with?
Your contributions so far today have been vague, with suspecting people for being under the radar and for yet unannounced reasons in Amished/ABR's case.

Reread+more when I'm done working in a couple of hours.
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:32 am

Post by Ojanen »

Quick question to PZ, with the thing ODDin has a problem with:
PZ wrote:4. ODDin - I don't like how ODDin quietly agreed with VP but didn't move his random vote on ekiM to a player that he apparently agreed as scummy. To me he's waiting to see if a bandwagon materializes.
Can you remember: were you referring with this to the early suspicion from ambiguous seriousness (starting iso 4) or the second wave after you said you didn't have a case (iso 11)?
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:12 pm

Post by Ojanen »

ODDin votes ekiM because of this wrote:2) I find Scien's approach useful.
[... ...]
3) Seeing the above, I don't really like how eKim attacked Scien over it -
feels a bit like trying to keep the game in the RVS, maybe.
ODDin's early comment on PZ wrote:
PZ seems to be with one leg out of the RVS and the other still in. This is scummy, IMHO
- it gives him the ability to take a certain argument and later say either "it was only part of the RVS and I wasn't serious about it" or "look here, I've been saying that all along", depending on the circumstances.
And I join in to Amished and VP in eagerly awaiting the case on SC.
ODDin 200 on who's scummier, PZ or ekiM wrote:At this point, eKim. While I don't like PZ's actions in that they might be laying grounds for future scummy actions, it's still obviously a stretch to say that's a serious scum-tell.
ODDin 237 on why he's wary of PZ wrote:
So yes, PZ, you pretty much lied - at any rate, you've created a very wrong impression.

Also, you're not really doing much of a job to contribute more - you just laugh of the things said against you, trying to make Scien look foolish (which isn't a valid defence).
-----
ODDin wrote:It's more serious than that. The way he (PZ) put it, my case on him (PZ) was stronger than my case on eKim, yet I didn't change my vote. That's what he (PZ) called scummy. However, it wasn't so - and this is also a thing I've explicitly said before in the thread, when Amished asked me who I found scummier, and I asnwered eKim, not PZ. (The very beginning of post 200.) So, it's not only that he said my vote was random when it wasn't - he went on to infer that I didn't vote for a case that I should have felt was stronger (the case on PZ) when I explicitly said that I didn't find it stronger already before.
Looking at ODDin's posting history, even though he said at one point ekiM is scummier than PZ, the arguments against PZ are both worded more strongly and come up more than those against ekiM.
Not buying PZ case.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:09 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Sorry for the quadruple.
@AGar: Can I have a small elaboration on how solid a scumtell you find OMGUS to be?
AGar wrote:
Raskol wrote:AGar---would you say it's usual for you to park your vote all Day? Were you that sure that ekiM was scum?
It's less of that and more of I ended up being on V/LA for the 4 days preceding the deadline. I don't intend on repeating that feat this time around.
Hmm.
AGar 1 week before deadline wrote: I'm going to wait until ekiM's replacement before really doing much more, because that's where my first suspicion lies.
Can you elaborate on this thinking? With there being several scum and all.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:58 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

blarg...this game needs a kick in the pants.

Vote: Zorblag
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:47 am

Post by Papa Zito »

(still owe a reread but I lack motivation)
Ojanen wrote:Quick question to PZ, with the thing ODDin has a problem with:
PZ wrote:4. ODDin - I don't like how ODDin quietly agreed with VP but didn't move his random vote on ekiM to a player that he apparently agreed as scummy. To me he's waiting to see if a bandwagon materializes.
Can you remember: were you referring with this to the early suspicion from ambiguous seriousness (starting iso 4) or the second wave after you said you didn't have a case (iso 11)?
See iso 8.

My deal on the ekiM vote thing is ODDin never once asked the guy a question or anything. Maybe "random" was the wrong word but the vote was made early in the game and just barely more justified than the one I put on SC. When it wasn't revisited and instead I was the target of his attention I figured that meant he'd found another prime suspect. So what if I rewrite it as:
Papa Zito wrote:4. ODDin - I don't like how ODDin quietly agreed with VP but didn't move his early abandoned vote on ekiM to a player that he apparently agreed
w
as scummy. To me he's waiting to see if a bandwagon materializes.
Maybe we can move past semantics now? Also fixed a typo.
VP Baltar wrote:blarg...this game needs a kick in the pants.

Vote: Zorblag
Dunno what to think of this.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:26 am

Post by Ojanen »

Papa Zito wrote: See iso 8.
Sorry, didn't get this. ODDin's (seems irrelevant)? Yours?
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:31 am

Post by Papa Zito »

Ojanen wrote:
Papa Zito wrote: See iso 8.
Sorry, didn't get this. ODDin's (seems irrelevant)? Yours?
I talk about ODDin agreeing with VP but not switching a vote in my iso 8.

Unless I'm not understanding your question?
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:35 am

Post by Ojanen »

Oh. As far as I can read that's 9.
It's not that clear from there, I just wanted to know whether you were referring to ODDin agreeing with VP before or after your V/LA (there were 2 waves).
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:32 am

Post by Papa Zito »

It was after. I came back, explained the SC thing, VP posted some drivel, and ODDin sagely nodded his head to it. The End.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:39 am

Post by Raskol »

AGar wrote:
Raskol wrote:-AGar---would you say it's usual for you to park your vote all Day? Were you that sure that ekiM was scum?
It's less of that and more of I ended up being on V/LA for the 4 days preceding the deadline. I don't intend on repeating that feat this time around.
Where would you have put your vote if you'd been around, and why?

Ojanen
---What are your thoughts on VP Baltar and charlatan?

charlatan
---Top 2 or 3 suspects, please.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:47 am

Post by Scien »

Working on gathering my views on every body. Just saying so to avoid my last prod. You should expect something from me soon.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:11 am

Post by charlatan »

Raskol wrote:
charlatan
---Top 2 or 3 suspects, please.
I'll be perfectly honest: I'm slightly embarrassed to not be halfway down someone's throat by now, but I'm getting a slower start this game. My top suspects at this point, in no particular order:

1) ODDin. This stems primarily from his interaction with Zito, which feels vaguely contrived and overly reactionary. While I agree that Zito's bandwagon attempt and Zito's votes do not seem to work together, ODDin's continual push against him is largely based on Zito's Day 1 vote on him. The signal to noise ratio there is off. Take, for instance, this quote:
ODDin wrote:Okay, suppose PZ is town. He makes a mistake and thinks my vote on eKim was RVS. He accuses me for it and votes me for it. Okay, mistakes happen. Then I point out that he was wrong. Why doesn't he back off? Why doesn't he admit it was a mistake? Why does he refuse to address it in any way and continue to vote?
A day later, and a large part of the case can still be summarized as "he's picking on me unfairly." (This is an exaggeration, but you get the point.) As far as I'm concerned, as long as the vote is getting a strong reaction from a player there's no need to say 'oops, I'm sorry' and unvote, and I do not believe Papa Zito has lied or failed to give reasoning for his vote anyways. ODDin does not seem to be digging elsewhere, either.

2) Amished/Albert B. Rampage. I'll be looking hard at Ramp to see if I can solidify my read here, as I'll admit it's not where I want it to be. However, I feel a certain style of erratic Day 1 play to be a reliable indicator of scum nervousness. I noticed in my initial read, for instance, the apparent disconnect between his reluctance to help anyone get a meta read on him and his subsequent posts that indicate he totally does see a use for meta. Dismissing his reluctance as "being lazy" rang false, as his post count and the attention he paid clearly show that he's not lazy at all. He tossed a blanket of activity over virtually everything happening in the game at once (not a bad thing), but seemed to be committing his energy where the argument of the moment was occurring. It's a good way to appear to be doing more than you are. (See also, switching between SC and Sando throughout the day, perhaps a way of trying to be on two bandwagons at once.)

I can go into more specifics where they're needed, but for now I'd like the two players I've mentioned to state any objections to the points I've raised. I also think there's a decent enough chance that one of the lurkers is scum, though it's too early for a lurker hunt. I don't like that AGar can be present enough to place votes but not enough to let us into his head. I also don't feel that I understand your positions at all, and you've also been asked to give your top suspects (by Zorblag, as I recall) and have not done so. To a significantly lesser degree, Baltar also falls into this category.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:13 am

Post by charlatan »

Oh, I forgot:

Vote: ODDin
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:26 pm

Post by Scien »

I know its bad form to dump out full lists but meh. I kind of need it to keep involved. I've been slacking.

AGar - slight to fairly positive- I think I was overly loud at AGar in early game, and when asked about his opinion of me it didn't seem negative in the slightest. I know it is a bit of WIFOM, but I don't see a scum player who should be a bit reactive not acting on my loudness and early vote on them. At least not at the moment. Been fairly quiet although participating a bit.

Albert B Rampage (Amished) - neutral - Hmm. I have a hard time with Amished. He did claim he thought he knew was PapaZ was going on about, when it was later revealed that PapaZ was just wagoning to wagon pretty much. That's pretty odd in my book. Was fairly aggressive against SC in early game, but ended up on the Sando wagon I think. He seemd to be actively looking around though. ABR hasn't said anything yet.

Charlaten (ekiM) - slight positive- I think that I could read his early questioning of me as just thinking I had bad logic. He didn't necessarilly think that was scummy, and so he never moved his random vote. I think that makes sense. If he was seriously suspecting me, then yes, I would think it odd that he didn't move that vote. But going back to the logic, him just full fledgedly stopping it does seem a bit odd. I would expect him to let me carry on or something I guess. Instead he immediately writes it off as pointless, quick conclusion me thinks, but meh. Then Charlaten replaces in... He pretty much goes hardcore against Sando, but I think he was looking around a bit too, so null read.

ODDin - slight to fairly negative. - Most of his begining day was defending against SC I believe. Meh I am going to be lazy. I did one of these walls recently in a on-going game... and its a bit exhausting sifting through stuff. I think its funny SC died. I think ODDin has been tunneling a bit more than most meh. I can forgive the PapaZ vote after the night, even if it does look like it was a scum plan. However the rest of the stuff still is going to keep him negative in my eyes.

Ojanen - slightly positive - Been away for a bit due to life. When she is around, she is examining multiple people, and her vote hopping seems to follow her suspicions in previous posts, meaning she isn't making the suspicions up as she goes. But life sucks, and the activity level is keeping me from being firm in this read.

Papa Zito - slight to fairly positive - PapaZ's playstyle has changed quite a bit since I have played with him. His begin game was a lot more... well willy nilly. But I didn't catch issues with him wagoning for wagonings sake, or claiming that he had reasons to keep the pressure up. Actually a townie playing the game that way would be most effective using those tactics. He seems to be away at conveinient times... but I can't fault him for that alone. Other than that he seems to be looking around a bit, and is at least appearing to be a bit objective.

Raskol - fairly positive - In early game seemed jumped on ekiM for some of his stances on my actions. Well kind of, he later says it was more about not voting where his suspicions mainly lie when he still had a random vote out. I think the result of this path of discussion was ekiM writing off his concerns of me as 'null', which in ISO on ekiM I buy. Was called out by Amished for building weak cases during the above, but Raskol didn't back down. Goes into a bunch of theory with SA, which is meh in my book, but just meh not worse. Seems confused in day 2, but thats a bit understandable.

VP Baltar - slight to fairly negative - Auto ignore claim in begin game, nice. I don't like the ignoring of PapaZ's unstated intentions (wagoning for wagonings sake is the claim PapaZ later made about his intitions here). He was willing to throw a big fuss at the time about it, possibly trying to decrease the wagon's effectiveness. And he bounced between PapaZ and Sando a bit. That could be legitimatly following concerns, or something else. Eventually switched vote from PapaZ to Amished before he went on vacation and claimed he would come back and switch to Sando if Amished didn't happen (er ok, I would call that an odd thought process). Pretty much immediately comes back and is on PapaZ again. Then votes Zorblag after a bit of discussion. Ok. I'm not going to lie, the 3 major suspicions thing he seems to be doing, and bouncing between confuses me. Sometimes it seems he switches without much game state changing. Seems arbitrary. Also don't like the 'you can't get meaning from the NK' comment.

Zorblag - neutral - Meh. Even with him being away he has been participating a decent amount really. I would really like to see him dump out his current top concerns more concretely though. Sifting through the obeservation/questions he normally does dazzles me.


Questions observations on reread -
Raskol, could I ask for your point about AGar? You are suggesting that him having a parked vote was suspicious? Or just discussing at the moment?

Agar, could you express in words what you disliked about the early day 2 ODDin's vote? I was making an assumption that I shouldn't have.

VP, I am trying to understand the end of day 1 stuff you said. You had a high suspicion of PapaZ leading up to your vacation (your vote was on him), but right before you leave you vote Amished? And say if it Amished doesn't happen you'll just vote Sando? What changed so much that you were willing to leave an unwatched vote on Amished? If Papa was a big suspicion why Sando being the alternative to Amished? Are these guys so close in your head that you move between the group so easilly?

Can I request a current vote count?
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:46 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

charlatan wrote:I also don't feel that I understand your positions at all, and you've also been asked to give your top suspects (by Zorblag, as I recall) and have not done so. To a significantly lesser degree, Baltar also falls into this category.
If I'm being honest, I'm still trying to gain a strong direction in this game. Even at the end of Day 1 I wasn't feeling exceedingly confident about lynching anyone, which is atypical for me generally (though it seems to happen fairly often when playing in these "elite" style games). Right now my strongest feeling is to be feeling out the lynch wagon from yesterday, as it is likely there was at least one scum on it. Out of those folks, the Amished/ABR,Raskol, Zorblag and PZ slots interest me the most.
Scein wrote:Auto ignore claim in begin game, nice. I don't like the ignoring of PapaZ's unstated intentions (wagoning for wagonings sake is the claim PapaZ later made about his intitions here).
I don't really want to get into this again because it is pointless by now, but I still feel I was correct.
Scein wrote:He was willing to throw a big fuss at the time about it, possibly trying to decrease the wagon's effectiveness.
You mean the shit wagon against confirmed town SC? Sure.
Scein wrote: And he bounced between PapaZ and Sando a bit. That could be legitimatly following concerns, or something else.
What do you mean "something else"? What would that something else be? Also, do you not feel either of those argument were genuine?
Scein wrote:Pretty much immediately comes back and is on PapaZ again.
lol, I was? Where? I have barely mentioned PZ today.
Scein wrote:VP, I am trying to understand the end of day 1 stuff you said. You had a high suspicion of PapaZ leading up to your vacation (your vote was on him), but right before you leave you vote Amished? And say if it Amished doesn't happen you'll just vote Sando? What changed so much that you were willing to leave an unwatched vote on Amished? If Papa was a big suspicion why Sando being the alternative to Amished? Are these guys so close in your head that you move between the group so easilly?
Context my friend.

PapaZ was not a legitimate lynch candidate when I was going on my V/LA at the end of day 1. It was going to be Sando or Amished. No lynch should never be an option on Day 1 and I like to do what I can to make sure that isn't going to happen. As I've already explained, I started to have misgivings about lynching Sando after my long dispute with him and his frustration began to feel more honest, so I put my vote on Amished, who I felt more confident about.

For your own reference:
The Rules wrote:7. A lynch suffers the requirement of a simple majority. If there is no majority at deadline, there will be no lynch
Sando was the alternative to Amished because no lynch isn't an option for me.

I don't understand your last question other than it looks like an attempt to slander me, which is cool I guess.
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:59 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Papa Zito wrote:It was after. I came back, explained the SC thing, VP posted some drivel, and ODDin sagely nodded his head to it. The End.
Thanks.
ODDin, I'd like you to examine your case based on this information and tell if it changes anything in your perception.
I'll get to Raskol's question and rest in a bit.
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:13 pm

Post by AGar »

@Ojanen - On it's own, OMGUS is a null-tell in my book. However, with other factors, I feel it
can
hint at some things.

As for the V/LA - I honestly didn't expect things to be so absorbed but the event sucked up my life for that weekend, and had I come back, my vote would have definitely moved.

The quote you want me to elaborate on - at the time ekiM was my first suspicion, and in the minimal time I had been able to devote to the game then I was only able to really concentrate on ekiM.




@Raskol - Sando. After the re-read I did the other day, Sando still struck me as off in his play-style, even knowing he was town. It just didn't seem right to me. Had I been around and active, I would've likely also made the move to hammer.




@Scien - It was based off of the fact that I felt ODDin's case was extremely flimsy and trash and I didn't like the style he went about things. It was almost completely off-the-hip at that time, as I hadn't really completely digested all of the information from day 1 but I definitely don't feel that I'm wrong in casting it right now.




The general feel of my read on ODDin is off just like I had with Sando after a re-read. I know Sando was town, but as I said, I still don't agree with him and still felt uneasy reading his posts. A lot of them seem like they generate something but in reality they just show he is hung up on little technicalities that people seem to catch him on. Very on the defense. Very edgy in his posting.
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:36 pm

Post by BigBear »

Vote CountPapa Zito - (1) - ODDin
ODDin - (2) - AGar, Charlatan
Zorblog - (2) - Papa Zito, VP Balter
AGar - (1) - Raskol


Not Voting

Ojanen, Scien, Albert B. Rampage, Zorblog
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:54 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Killin SerialClergykun ain't cool. I wanted to play at least a game with that guy, but the scum got to im already last night. How scary of 'em. Outrageously scary. Bye, bye, SC!

Now this here post singles my most likey likey scumbags.

For one, we got this cool scummer named AGar.

Posts all fluff in the first 6 pages in the game and then gits angsty over eKim fluffin his way in a likey fashion. Omgusy on top of that, but lil hypocrisy never killed neone so I just keep that in my mind fer later.

So I'm payin extra extra attention to him in my read you see. But the rest of his play can be described as a wild mess that fails to meet my standards of pro-town play.

Post 308 looks like more of what others have pointed out at nub card pointin, scummy playstyle coverin and little actual helpin.

452 is nice, AGar inventin words like "undercomprehension" to describe his allegedly weaksauce readin ability, but he accuses Zorblag and ODD(in) which is a fresh departure from his ekim tunnelin strategy to this point.
AGAR in 452 wrote:3. There should probably be way more pressure on me since I have not really contributed as much as I would personally have liked to in this game. It actually pisses me off that no one has come after me for anything yet, because I gain reads that way.
Conscience gettin guilty I see. Yeeea not trustin you much.

Vote AGar


On to my second suspect ODD(in). He's marginally more amusing than AGar, but that's like saying water-boardin' is slightly better than face-stabbin'. Odd's desire to cram as many numbered paragraphs as possible into his post hides an embarrassingly shallow and formulaic townie pretendin.
SerialClergyman wrote:Spouting goody-two-shoes theory = sounding town without doing anything that is pro-town or anti-scum = scummy.
Oh looky here, someone agrees. Too bad he's dead now, ain't it?

Now his votes, and subsequently, his suspects, are what seems to me shrouded in a mysterious, muddy, chaotic and unconvincing thought evolution that makes me more suspicious of him than the victims of his accusations.

His introspective thoughts on OMGUS are underwhelmin to say the least of it. AGar might have said much of the same, but I don't understand much of what AGar says in general.

FOS: ODD


Now let's get some trollin action.

Zorblag is scary as usual, gettin his Sando lynched just as he wanted.

A hell of a lot of his attention is given to SerialClergygun. In fact, almost his entire posting record pertains or is addressed to Sando or Serial. Check his postin in iso. Both dead now. So scary.

Now I ain't implyin a connection yet, but I'm followin you closely.
IGMEOY Zorblag
.
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