Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[VP Baltar]

Mods, you need deadline extension and massive prodding

Not so much to save myself, because that won't be necessary and I'm not getting lynched today, but rather to save this damn game...which is apparently also bleeding out.

I have some things to address when I have some time...but porkchops's "case" is not one of them, so don't hold your breath.

Confid, d3x and nachomamma....if you're still around this game, get in here and vote Ecto so we can move forward.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: vpb

benmage, will you join us?

[VP Baltar]

Ok, since you guys are being lazy and can't see the forest for the trees, let me point some important things out for you.

I've also heard it said that my shot came out of the blue or something like that. Well why would I shoot Vi of all people if I were scum? I know wifom yadayada, but seriously, why? Out of the blue? Because I had, what, 2 votes at the time? IIRC?

Well, first, this is factually incorrect. You had 3 votes on you at the time. More importantly, however, is the fact that there a significant amount of pressure building toward your lynch. Allow me to demonstrate:

Ectomancer shoots Vi in post 413 on page 17 with this reasoning:

Bah, I (and we) need the answer to this for a couple reasons anyhow.

shoot Vi

Which sounds rather aribtrary considering the posthumous mega post case he claimed to have on her. Now, even if you believe that Ecto actually had his case in mind when he shot her (which I don't), let's look at the three or so pages before that shot was fired and see what people were saying about Ecto.

It wounds my soul to move my vote from Ectomancer-scum, but I can hop onto an Amished wagon.

Unvote: Ectomancer
Vote: Amished (L-5)

Clearly Vi still thought you were scummy.

I also used my current reads for some personal PoE and I've come to the conclusion that we need to be lynching in the following group to hit scum:

benmage
Porkchop
ectomancer
pwnz

Out of those, benmage is still my top pick, but I would definitely back an ectomancer lynch if there is interest.

*yawn*

unvote, vote ectomancer

*sips beer*

I have some other stuff to comment on here sometime today, but I had a major realization this morning about Amished. I don't have plans to reveal it at this time, but I'll just say that I'm not down for his lynch. I can see where people are coming from, but I think it's the wrong course of action at the moment. I also used my current reads for some personal PoE and I've come to the conclusion that we need to be lynching in the following group to hit scum:

benmage
Porkchop
ectomancer
pwnz

Out of those, benmage is still my top pick, but I would definitely back an ectomancer lynch if there is interest. Yeah yeah, what's the case you say. I'll get to that today hopefully (after I catch up in yet another game I'm seriously behind in), but just thought I would put those thoughts out there for now.

I can reveal my PoE if a majority of people are interested, but I will ONLY do that if it is a majority thing.

I agree with this list. Two things: 1. What does PoE stand for? (Not asking you to reveal what yours is, just don't get the acronym.) 2. Could we get a vote count?

My lynch preference would probably be:

VPB
pwnz
nacho/ecto....i dont have a good read on either of these, i'd probably have to read both in iso if a wagon started on either to see if i'd agree or not...but some general feelings and overview has me disliking both.

I think everyone should drop a lynch preference, see where we stand.

blah blah blah blah

no comment necessary that I haven't said a couple of dozen times already

And Vi has nothing to say to you because she thinks you are so scummy.

*messes up the vote count*

Unvote: Amished
Vote: Ectomancer (L-4)

We voting are shooting?

Even without rereading nacho/ecto post 385 makes me down.

It would be more accurate to say that I keep changing back to Ectomancer due to him providing new and increasingly more awesome reasons to be lynched while providing essentially no redeeming value.

If you believe this assessment is in error, please say so. Otherwise, join the wagon.

As for a lynch preference I currently run Amished, ecto, nacho/porkchop. Amished reasons should be clear, ecto doesn't seem to be willing to do anything over these last few pages.

I should just shoot VP to prove myself right.

Luckily, we have another candidate; and I don't disagree with anything that Vi has said against Ecto.

Unvote
Vote: Ectomancer

And then BLAMO, you shoot Vi. I strongly encourage town players to go look at pages 15-17 (mostly 16). This is where every single one of these quotes comes from and it clearly shows that support of an Ectomancer lynch was being fomented. Some of the above quotes are stronger than others, but all of them are in a negative light of him and they were coming from a fairly wide spread of players. This is why it is clear to me that Ecto is scum. He saw his lynch coming and figured he may as well kill a town player before he bit the dust. What is suprising to me is that people have allowed him to walk away from this...which is why I think people like Porkchop and Ben are likely scumbuddies. Coming up with a case after the fact doesn't do anything to make me feel better about him (not to mention his case is awful).

---

Now, allow me to point out Porkchopexpress' glaring contradiction while I'm pointing out things.

In his post where he votes me, he attacks me for going after benmage:

To begin with, you accused him of following wagons with no original thought (Iso 17) and then, after Ben’s reply when he points out that you’ve done the same thing on the Confid wagon, you focussed on his mistake-riddled NM8 vote and his eagerness to vote before Confid “has even had a chance to explain himself”...(etc)

But when I was first pointing out how ben was jumping on wagons he didn't understand back on the nacho wagon, Porkchop was eager to "borrow" my reasoning as an attack on ben himself.

I don’t like that Benmage doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the very little play that has transpired so far. I really don’t like that he doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the details of the bandwagon that he joined. This was a pretty huge gaffe for a simple memory failure. He ignores Ecto entirely (even though he quotes a link to Ecto’s argument) and then possibly tries to hide his band-wagoning behind my band-wagoning.

Porkchop is also making the allegation that I am hypocritically attacking ben for not adding "original thought" to the wagons I've been on. While that is not what I was attacking ben over (I attacked him for not UNDERSTANDING the reasons presented against people and voting anyhow), let's look at what porkchop said earlier about ben and myself when the whole Confid wagon was happening.

I’m not entirely sure what you [benmage] are expecting Confid to come out and defend himself against, if he has already explained his actions and you’ve done nothing (beyond voting) to challenge that. You are either voting because you think his play is demonstrably scummy or because you’re trying to pressure him into explaining his actions. Your words say you’re doing one thing, but your play says another. (

Unlike, say, VP you aren’t actually doing any of the due diligence in attacking the response, you just act like you are.

) Reeks of opportunistic scuminess.

My how the tables turn when the wagons change.

---

Other things I will address from Porkchops voting post on me.

Trying to lynch someone you believe to be town (but is gunning for you) is horrendously bad play, worse than just shooting them even.

What? Getting town killed is bad any way you put it. At least with trying to get someone lynched, the rest of the town acts as a buffer against someone's obvious OMGUS behaviour.

Telling someone to act on their suspicions (if they have any) isn’t scummy.

Bullshit and you know it.

Ecto telling ben and dj to essentially shoot it out is outrageously scummy. Ecto isn't agree with one or the other being scummy, he's simply the pre-pubescent poindexter on the outer ring of the crowd shouting "Fight! Fight! Fight!"

That is not good for town and I'm most certainly not "misrepresenting" Ecto in this manner.

Frankly, I don’t know why Vi claiming Vanilla while she was wounded is such an important detail. Are you telling me that you’d expect scum to have given up their alignment because they were wounded (even before Confid revealed himself)? Was that were your town read of Vi came from? Simply that there’s no reason not to believe a deathbed claim?

Scum often give up their alignments after they are dead. I don't think anyone expected Vi to be healed and unless the scum have a doctor on their team, they most certainly would not. I think being able to read deception in peoples' posts is a fine skill that many players on MS lack. Vi's claim and frustration were both very honest. And no, generally speaking, there isn't much reason not to believe a town deathbed (or twilight) claim. What legitimate benefit does a scum receive from fakeclaiming town when he or she believes they are dead?

I don’t think it was an incorrect explanation of Vi’s play but I had a town feeling coming from Vi based off of the gun/bad shot talk

So if you had a town read off of her bad shot talk, why should I doubt her claim? You're not even being consistent in the same post any longer.

Some of the hardcore buddying between Sotty and VP has me slightly suspicious of her.

hardcore buddying? really? I'm not allowed to have a town read on her? Also, what do town reads on each other mean until you actually know someone's alignment? Absolutely nothing. I don't see how you can be slightly suspicious of her when you don't even know what my alignment is.

---

TL,DR

Ecto had a massive incentive to shoot Vi (his main detractor) when he did. Review pages 15-17 and you'll see that his wagon was gaining major steam.

Porkchop seems to change his opinion in this game very conveniently. When Ecto flips scum, this is where people should be looking for his buddy.

[don_johnson]

so should i vote ectomancer, then?

[Benmage]

unvote, vote: vpb

benmage, will you join us?

Godddddamnittttttt

Thats my main suspect, and you all keep running around.'


I'll vote VPB, or any of the 4 lurkers.

unvote vote vpb

[VP Baltar]

so should i vote ectomancer, then?

I think so. There are actual scummy reasons to vote him. As opposed to my wagon, which is on the grounds of "HERRRRRRRRRRR AHHH DURRRRRRRRRP, WIN DA GAME VPB."

[Benmage]

^^That is such a false misrepresentation which why you've never allieviated the pressure on you, you keep falling back to that one (true) statement.

Btw, when is the deadline? 3 days? Mods :arrow:

[Benmage]

Porkchop is also making the allegation that I am hypocritically attacking ben for not adding "original thought" to the wagons I've been on. While that is not what I was attacking ben over (I attacked him for not UNDERSTANDING the reasons presented against people and voting anyhow), let's look at what porkchop said earlier about ben and myself when the whole Confid wagon was happening.

Have you yielded yet that i fully understood why i was voting ConA?

[VP Baltar]

No, I don't believe you understand much of what has happened to this point, but Ecto is oozing scum and needs to be dealt with. You live to fight another day you waskly wabbit.

Btw, when is the deadline? 3 days? Mods :arrow:

But I do agree with this.

[Sotty7]

Ben what do you think of VP's post 627? You seemed to just ignore it. As for me I am happy with my vote on Ecto. We desperately need some mod power too

[Benmage]

No, I don't believe you understand much of what has happened to this point, but Ecto is oozing scum and needs to be dealt with. You live to fight another day you waskly wabbit.

First of all i'm not even asking about a general understanding of the game...which is what i infer when you say "to this point"...which is simply off. I'm talking about my single vote on ConA. You dont think I understood why I voted ConA. Alone...Singly...Yes, or no for that.

[Benmage]

Ben what do you think of VP's post 627? You seemed to just ignore it. As for me I am happy with my vote on Ecto. We desperately need some mod power too

Where did i ignore it? I even steal a quote from it in 632...i read it... lol

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote ecto

you're all scummy. his flip should clear some things up. if he's town then both sotty and vpb are scum. if he's scum then someone should shoot me tomorrow before you lynch benmage.

sorry ec, you know i love ya.

[VP Baltar]

I'm talking about my single vote on ConA. You dont think I understood why I voted ConA. Alone...Singly...Yes, or no for that.

ben, let me reiterate my problem with your vote. You posted all of the information you would have needed to find ConA suspicious and said you weren't quite clear on the case so you would do a reread. Then after that reread you magically understood and put your vote EVEN THOUGH you had already read the reason that most people were voting him.

My view is that you didn't need additional context of a reread to understand the reasons for voting Confid. That is why I said I don't feel like you understood the arguments. You needed a reread and to see other players' reasons for voting before you understood why you wanted to vote. That's what bothers me.

I think that is clear.

[Sotty7]

Ben I mean the huge chunk of it directed at Ecto. What do you think about what VP said about him? Why are you unwilling to vote Ecto?

[Benmage]

VP,

This is frustrating so its the last time i'll do this circle. But i said it was peculiar. I wanted ConA on my read of him alone to explain further.

Looking at the other votes, people all voted for the same "peculiar" thing i saw.

Then reading Amish i noticed this:

It's a sure sign of scum not wanting to vote for somebody (buddy, town, either way works; initially leaning towards town).

I hadn't seen it like this....people read things differently, amish's perspective brought to light this. I liked it. I joined the wagon to speed the interactions of ConA in explaining his peculiarity.

Besides if I had known the votes from the get-go were on ConA for his peculiar statement, I would've voted him on that basis alone in my first post after readin ConA....I wanted to get the info out of him, bottom line...and voting seemed the fastest way to get a response.

And whats happened to ConA sine than....he more or less fell off the radar completely...i bet if we started voting him, he'd come back.

[Benmage]

Ben I mean the huge chunk of it directed at Ecto. What do you think about what VP said about him? Why are you unwilling to vote Ecto?

VP makes some decent points...a lot of people showed distaste for ecto prior to his shooting. The shot obviously took me off guard. Hence my iso read of him.

VP dismisses the case, for it being after the fact....I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

No i dont want to vote ecto, just cause his wagon seems popular. VPB is my main suspect, i want to see him lynched.

However i despise inactivity and will vote any of the 4 lurkers.

Note: I clearly wont let the deadline hit without and lynch, and will even hammer if need be in the last few hours. But when is the deadline

[VP Baltar]

@ben-fine. I don't really want to argue with you about it anymore anyhow. I'm far less sure about you now than I am about Ecto, which is where my vote is.

I moved on a long time ago and I suggest you do the same.

[don_johnson]

I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

so you basically wanted to lynch me earlier even though i was more likely town than scum?

[Ectomancer]

unvote, vote ecto

you're all scummy. his flip should clear some things up. if he's town then both sotty and vpb are scum. if he's scum then someone should shoot me tomorrow before you lynch benmage.

sorry ec, you know i love ya.

That's ok, though I think it is foolish ot lynch

anyone

right now with all the absences. Don't kill Confid tomorrow unless alot of killing goes down. I don't think you are barking up a wrong tree necessarily, but conservative on that one at least ok?

[Ectomancer]

In fact, like I said earlier, you really need to just shoot me if you plan to lynch me. At least then the lost will speak before nightfall.

[don_johnson]

That's ok, though I think it is foolish ot lynch

anyone

right now with all the absences. Don't kill Confid tomorrow unless alot of killing goes down. I don't think you are barking up a wrong tree necessarily, but conservative on that one at least ok?

deal. i wonder if anyone has the balls to hammer early?

[Benmage]

I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

so you basically wanted to lynch me earlier even though i was more likely town than scum?

Explain (quote fixed?)

[don_johnson]

I dont. In fact i think its more townish as scum would be more careful and try to convince others before acting hastily...at least thats what i think....oh wifom.

so you basically wanted to lynch me earlier even though i was more likely town than scum?

Explain (quote fixed?)

no. you. you wanted me lynched earlier after i shot. according to this logic i was obvtown. we may have covered this already.

why don't you just hammer?

[Ectomancer]

Hrmm. Alrighty. I'm the GunSlinger. Really sorry I hit town, but I seriously thought Vi was scum this game.
I've also been tempting you to shoot me because I've also got reason to believe that I'm harder to hit than at least some of you blokes. I figured if you saw some bulletproof you might think townie, but bleh. That just means you will need to lynch me.
But. I'm still counting against scum, if there are 3, then kill me and it will be 3-6 with a nightkill tomorrow and I don't necessarily believe my own line about them not having guns. it could be 3-3 real quick. Keep me around a day. I'll be good. I actually did not plan to shoot tomorrow, as I stated.
You can at least count on my reasoning, and right now the only way I stand any chance is to find scum.