Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[archaebob]

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch. I think that this game is extremely convoluted right now, and we're going to be better off in the long run cleaning up the town than trying to hit scummy players who are active posters. I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

[Furry]

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch.

??

I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

Thats a little repetitive.

This is also a really wierd thing weve got going right now. If we arent lynching EKT... im not even entirely sure where my thought process leads next. I dont like a Sanjay lynch almost purely off my read of him D1, KoC is getting voted on by EKT, we will see on that one. Gut screams arch actually for my next pick, but I would vote BB over Sanjay and KoC.

I just really prefer a EKT lynch, nothing that happened near the end of yesterday points to him being town.

[archaebob]

@ Furry -

What's the confusion exactly?

[Furry]

What is a "costly mislynch" as opposed to just a mislynch?

[Sanjay]

Furry, here's how I feel about EKT:

I was pretty indifferent towards Peabody.

I felt like Raskol was pretty townish up until his weirdo unvote.

I can't make sense of that unvote at all and Raskol doesn't look good given DJ's flip.

Mr. Knives has seemed okay so far. I was fine trying to call together a bandwagon on Raskol pre-replacement, but once EKT came in I figured the best thing to do would be to unvote and give him some space to see what he does.

Nothing he has done so far as made me more enthusiastic about his lynch. I guess I'm still open to it as a deadline thing but I'd prefer KoC.

------

archaebob, what's your read on me?

[Looker]

Aw shucks, you sure know how to make a guy feel special.

Remind me again why you don't like BigBear as a lynch candidate? Is it just because I suspect him?

You asked about a Furry lynch earlier today. Is that something you are interested in?

- BigBear is just as likely to be scum as DeathRowKitty. I'm not tilting the tables in DRK's favor because there's a wagon on BB. If there were an equal wagon on both, maybe, but that's not the case. BigBear strikes me as a parking spot as of late.

- I wouldn't say interested in per se; however, if no one is willing to lynch you, then lynching Furry would give us a 1/3 shot of hitting your partner, whom I believe to be of Furry, Eleven, and KoC. I'm currently leaning KoC, though, so I'd rather lynch him (as of now) over Furry; however, I'm not moving my vote from you to do either so all of this is speculation. I just like having a backup plan in case you pull a magic trick or something, y'know?

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch. I think that this game is extremely convoluted right now, and we're going to be better off in the long run cleaning up the town than trying to hit scummy players who are active posters. I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

- Cleaning up the town VS Hitting Scummy Players: This gives me the impression that you'd rather lynch useless town over active scum.

- KoC Town VS Sanjay Town: The way I feel about this situation is that, though one may be more useful than the other, they're still both town so I'd refrain from lynching either one; however, this is under the assumption that they are town, under which I am currently not. Sanjay is Mafia and KoC has a shot at being his partner.

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch.

??

I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

Thats a little repetitive.

This is also a really wierd thing weve got going right now. If we arent lynching EKT... im not even entirely sure where my thought process leads next. I dont like a Sanjay lynch almost purely off my read of him D1, KoC is getting voted on by EKT, we will see on that one. Gut screams arch actually for my next pick, but I would vote BB over Sanjay and KoC.

I just really prefer a EKT lynch, nothing that happened near the end of yesterday points to him being town.

- If you could save one, Sanjay or KoC, which would it be? That's what I'm hoping it'll boil down to; however, as I've previously stated, BB is a parking spot and those votes on him will most likely be used to hammer whoever is in the lead. For example, Sanjay pulls his vote off BB at the last minute to hammer KoC or EKT to save himself. This is all speculation, of course.

[Furry]

Im not really too sure that its the best thing to answer, as it can actually hurt my chance of a EKT lynch. If you read me close it shouldnt be hard to figure out (or at least predict), but there is a good chance that doing so will stop anyone on either of those wagons from ever leaving them.

[archaebob]

archaebob, what's your read on me?

Dude, there is no way in hell I can do this right now. Actually, I don't think i can trust myself to be able to evaluate you in this game until either you or I have died in 873. You understand, right?

Cleaning up the town VS Hitting Scummy Players: This gives me the impression that you'd rather lynch useless town over active scum.

- KoC Town VS Sanjay Town: The way I feel about this situation is that, though one may be more useful than the other, they're still both town so I'd refrain from lynching either one; however, this is under the assumption that they are town, under which I am currently not. Sanjay is Mafia and KoC has a shot at being his partner.

I would never lynch confirmed useless town over confirmed active scum. But I think that this game is unique enough to make keeping the active players around a worthwhile endeavor. So, if I KNEW that Sanjay was scum, I'd want him lynched, but since I don't know, I'd rather lynch someone who I KNOW is useless.

What is a "costly mislynch" as opposed to just a mislynch?

A costly mislynch is one that hurts that the town in ways beyond simply being down another town player. This game suffers from a lack of cohesion, focus, and activity. From what I can tell, Sanjay has been instrumental in keeping this thread alive, simply because he posts coherently, and often. An environment without any players like Sanjay favors scum, because there is no organized structure by which you can measure a player's actions. They can slip by. SO...I'm saying that I'd rather keep Sanjay around because I'm not positive that he's scum, and I think the town will benefit more in the long run from narrowing itself down to a core of consistent players than it will from stabbing at who they think

might

be the scum right now.

[Looker]

@Archaebob

Semioldguy and havingfitz, do you get any reads from either of them? I notice that you're posting and they're not. Why is that?

[Kreriov]

Vote Count

BigBear (2) - Sanjay havingfitz
eleven knives in a throat (2) - Furry Knight of Cydonia

Knight of Cydonia (3)

- eleven knives in a throat archaebob DeathRowKitty
Sanjay (2) - BigBear looker

Not Voting: semioldguy

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: Friday 11 Dec @ 11pm EST

[Kreriov]

Knight of Cydonia has been prodded.

[Knight of Cydonia]

A'ight, I'm here. Birthday weekend, then a shitload of college work.

- KoC Town VS Sanjay Town: The way I feel about this situation is that, though one may be more useful than the other, they're still both town so I'd refrain from lynching either one; however, this is under the assumption that they are town, under which I am currently not. Sanjay is Mafia and KoC has a shot at being his partner.

Care to explain why I "have a shot" at being Sanjay's partner?

- I wouldn't say interested in per se; however, if no one is willing to lynch you, then lynching Furry would give us a 1/3 shot of hitting your partner, whom I believe to be of Furry, Eleven, and KoC. I'm currently leaning KoC, though, so I'd rather lynch him (as of now) over Furry; however, I'm not moving my vote from you to do either so all of this is speculation. I just like having a backup plan in case you pull a magic trick or something, y'know?

So what, your plan is to lynch these three, then hope you're right? Niiice.

[eleven knives in a throat]

So are you going to acknowledge the questions against you or are you just going to keep actively lurking?

[archaebob]

alright, i think KoC is really deserving of the wagon right now. Can we get the heat up? Town or scum, he's the best lynch today, and I think it's not implausible that he's scum. That last post was totally pointless, and looks like a text-book case of disinterested scum.

@ Looker - they have done enough for me to have reads on them.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Town or scum, he's the best lynch today

So, you don't care what you lynch, just that you lynch? Geez. If your buddy eleven wasn't so obvious after Raskol antics, plus what little he's done today, I'd vote you.

[archaebob]

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

[eleven knives in a throat]

Town or scum, he's the best lynch today

So, you don't care what you lynch, just that you lynch? Geez. If your buddy eleven wasn't so obvious after Raskol antics

If you honestly thought Raskol's antics were "so obvious", you'd have attacked him when it happened. Instead you sat on a lazy DRK vote, not mentioning Raskol at all until Furry brought it up, and said this:

Feels like Raskol is a big LyALu fan. Disagree on principle with a wagon on someone being replaced, though, and still think there's more to DRK's slip. Not voting at deadline isn't a scumtell, it's a nulltell on a lazy player who couldn't be arsed to read up. Picking BB over me based on wagon size suggests equal suspicion, just wanted one of us lynched, not too bothered who. But then, that ain't exactly good either. Hrm.
Waiting to see who replaces, what excuses they got.

Now who here believes these are the words of someone who thought Raskol's antics were obvious?

plus what little the kettle's done today

I've been going after my top suspect. What more am I supposed to be doing, Mr. Active Lurker?

[archaebob]

@ KoC -

And what have YOU done today, exactly?

You guys, I really think the best thing this town can do for itself is lynch KoC right now. I'm having a lot of difficulty summing up the motivation to really comb through this thread, and I don't think the game will survive anymore replacements. The best thing this town can do for itself right now is stfu and lynch. If we narrow this game down to a smaller number of legitimately active players, it'll making catching up easier for us replacements, and give the town the focus it needs to actually scum-hunt in a meaningful way.

Pile aboard.

[Looker]

Care to explain why I "have a shot" at being Sanjay's partner?

So what, your plan is to lynch these three, then hope you're right? Niiice.

- I don't think you're reading, KoC.
- I don't think you're reading, KoC, which is understandable, seeing as you've just celebrated a birthday. It wouldn't make much sense for me to lynch any of you three if Sanjay is not Mafia, which is why my vote remains on him. Obviously, you're not done celebrating you're birthday so I'd encourage you to have fun. You don't have to half-ass it, just go V/LA.

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

- Just making sure that I wasn't losing my mind and was the only one who'd noticed.

@ KoC -

And what have YOU done today, exactly?

You guys, I really think the best thing this town can do for itself is lynch KoC right now. I'm having a lot of difficulty summing up the motivation to really comb through this thread, and I don't think the game will survive anymore replacements. The best thing this town can do for itself right now is stfu and lynch. If we narrow this game down to a smaller number of legitimately active players, it'll making catching up easier for us replacements, and give the town the focus it needs to actually scum-hunt in a meaningful way.

Pile aboard.

- Conveniencing the replacements could also wind us up in LyLo quicker than anticipated.
> You want to keep Sanjay around because he posts coherently.
< I want to lynch Sanjay because I believe he's DJ's partner.
> You want to lynch KoC because he's annoying and actively lurking
< I'd rather lynch KoC if Sanjay flips scum, which would leave me with a pool of three possible scum remaining (KoC, Furry, Eleven)

- Your arguments seem to be based on personality conflicts.
- My arguments appear to be based on the probability of lynching scum.
Am I correct in this assumption? (This is where you tell me I'm wrong and lay out your case [or re-iterate it])

[archaebob]

@ Looker -

My arguments are not based on "personality conflicts". My argument is based on the idea that we should prioritize creating an environment that favors town, rather than one that favors scum. Here's what I mean:

Environment that favors town:

-mostly active posters: makes it impossible for lurker scum to slip by
-mostly coherent posters: makes slip ups and contradictions more noticeable when they occur
-a cooperative town with focused bandwagons: forces scum to stake out their positions for or against major lynch wagons, meaning they have to either bus, justify not being on the wagon that lynches scum, or justify having been on the mislynch wagon. This makes it very difficult for scum to avoid to revealing which players they give special treatment to, and provides all sorts of juicy opportunities for contradictions and misrepresentations.
-less posters: narrows down the amount of players that the town have to go read in iso before they can have an opinion. decreases the chore of playing, and increases the motivation to play well.

A town that has all the traits mentioned above is a very hostile environment for scum, because they are required to survive under close scrutiny, and have to fit in convincingly with the uninformed scum-hunting of the town.

Environment that favors scum:

-inactive posters: lurker scum can say "well why don't you find

him

suspicious as well!" no way to differentiate between lurker scum and inactive town. Since you can't just policy lynch all the lurkers, the scum can count on slipping by.
-incoherent posters: significantly raises the threshold by which a contradiction or a bad case can be judged. No way to differentiate between stupid and scummy. Also, the town quickly fills up with fluff and convolution, making it difficult for a town player to go back through the thread and form theories in an efficient manner. Leads to disinterest, and further convolution.
-unfocused town, with four or five tiny, ineffectual wagons: makes it impossible to keep a coherent narrative of town discussion in mind. Favors tunneling, and allows bad cases and contradictions to go under the radar more than they would otherwise. Leads to inappropriately long days that further unmotivate the town and make research later on much more difficult.
-more posters: more people to look at, so less scrutiny for individuals to contend with. slipping by is easy for scum.

This game so far has been overwhelmingly an environment that favors scum. Lynching Sanjay, regardless of his flip, will contribute to an environment that favors scum, and not one that favors town. Now, if he was confirmed scum, I'd say that it'd be worth it. Only problem is, he isn't. Because of how strongly this particular game would benefit from becoming more town friendly, I think a policy lynch of the most useless player is justified. From what I've seen, KoC is easily the winner of the title (and I actually think he's the scummiest as well).

So, basically, given the town's fundamentally uninformed perspective, and the fact that this thread is a big mess, lynching KoC is substantially more pro-town than lynching Sanjay.

Choo choo time. Chug a chug. C'mon, DUE IT.

[Furry]

Why are you putting stock in "What mislynch hurts the town more?" instead of "What lynch wont be a mislynch?"

If you want to argue one over another put up a case (this is me asking for a nice concise case)

[Looker]

@ Archaebob - I have to say, that was beautiful; however, it all boils down to who you find the scummiest. You find KoC the scummiest, I find Sanjay the scummiest. Whether we can come to a compromise is the next obstacle we have to face. I just don't want to have been swayed by your words and lose sight of my initial intentions, which had nothing to do with environments.

@BigBear, DRK, Semioldguy, & havingfitz: Content with the current situation or no?

[Looker]

O, and Archaebob, why did you put DUE IT instead of DO IT. Are you implying a KoC wagon/lynch is overdue...?

[havingfitz]

@ Archaebob - I have to say, that was beautiful; however, it all boils down to who you find the scummiest. You find KoC the scummiest, I find Sanjay the scummiest. Whether we can come to a compromise is the next obstacle we have to face. I just don't want to have been swayed by your words and lose sight of my initial intentions, which had nothing to do with environments.

@BigBear, DRK, Semioldguy, & havingfitz: Content with the current situation or no?

I haven't seen anything yet to move my vote off of BB. I did just complete another game I was in. Should be more active in here...which won't be difficult to do.

[Kreriov]

Vote Count

BigBear (2) - Sanjay havingfitz
eleven knives in a throat (2) - Furry Knight of Cydonia

Knight of Cydonia (3)

- eleven knives in a throat archaebob DeathRowKitty
Sanjay (2) - BigBear looker

Not Voting: semioldguy

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: Friday 11 Dec @ 11pm EST