Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:39 am

Post by SlySly »

Sorry, got busy last night with out of control kids!!! Thoughts and my suggested nominees for eviction coming after lunch....

------------------------------

Suggested evictee list so far (subject to change):


SlySly (HoH)
- ???
???
--------------------------------------
kmd
- Paltry
Mr Finch

saber
--------------------------------------
saber
- Mr Finch (gut feeling)
SensFan
--------------------------------------
snow_bunny
- saber (all the obvious reasons)
siroginous (numbers talk/distraction, general scum read)
--------------------------------------
animopherv
- zwet (gut read)
Mr Finch (gut read)
--------------------------------------
llama
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
sironigous
- SensFan (deadline appearance after lurk, attacking Sly)
snow_bunny (ignoring posts and not answering questions)
--------------------------------------
SensFan
- saber
SlySly (anger, vote not included in count as it can't be taken seriously by HoH)

zwet
--------------------------------------
Mr Finch
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
Paltry
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
Crazy
- Mr Finch
animopherv
--------------------------------------
Grandi
pablito
- sironigous
snow_bunny
--------------------------------------

Yet to submit nomination suggestions: zwet, DisCode

--------------------------------------

Totals:

[HoH] SlySly

[1] animorpherv1 - Crazy
[0] Crazy
[0] Llamafluff
[0] Kmd4390
[3] Mr Finch - saber, animopherv, Crazy
[0] DisCode
[1] PaltryExcuse - kmd
[6] saberwolf - snow_bunny, llamafluff, SensFan, Mr Finch, Paltry, kmd
[2] SensFan - saber, sironigous
[2] Sironigous - snow_bunny, pablito
[2] snow_bunny - sironigous, pablito
[0] pablito
[5] zwetschenwasser - animopherv, llamafluff, Mr Finch, Paltry, SensFan
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:30 am

Post by SlySly »

My thoughts on each player so far....

animopherv
- started off seeming fairly pro-town but slipped into questionable zone by strongly giving support to Sens for one post and meta (which is useless in HoH nomination for this game, good player in other game could very well be scum in this game and bad for being HoH). At deadline, ends up seeming more anti-Sly than pro-Sens. After HoH appointing, get with program an delivers his picks. Sense a possible animopherv/Sens connection.

Crazy
- sounds very pro-Town to me. though his activity level is far too low, I agree with a lot he says. He acknowledged Sens lurking and gave his support to kmd and questioned me reasonably about my discussion with Llama.

DisCode
- he seems pro-Town. His questions are reasonable and seems to be actually trying to scumhunt. Hope to get more input from DisCode during this evictee nomination phase. The extra input from Discode never came unfortunately.

Grandi
pablito
- his predecessor placed a reasonless vote, states he would put me and Mufasa on the block if he became HoH, and then got modkilled. Sensed whoot/Sens connection. Grandi - Produces a reasonable HoH application but then goes into severe lurker mode. I sense a team discussed lurking strategy (Sens/Grandi). pablito replaces in and seems better than either of his predecessor but still does nothing town convincing with his initial post.

kmd
- this is one player I do have meta on that stands out in my head. I know how crafty of and effective scum he can be. his zwet nomination never sat well with me. His suspicions on Paltry seem a bit too strong for the reasoning he gives for those suspicions. Outside of his nom and thoughts on Paltry, I agree with many things he says, but I am very cautious to clear him as town because I know how good he can be as scum and his seemingly strong support of a lurking and non-contributing zwet is something that is just pinging my scumdar to no end!! It just blows me away that no one else seems to have a problem with his zwet support for HoH. Strongly sense a possible kmd/zwet connection.

LlamaFluff
- appears to be pro-Town at times. Our discussion about the reasoning behind where his HoH support was turned into somewhat of a semantics battle. Him being unable to produce a reason that seemed valid to me for his strong support of kmd elminated him from my list of possible HoH's candidate and made me a little suspicious about a possible Llama/kmd connection.

Mr Finch
- seems to be pro-Town. Biggest pro-Town reads come from him reevaluating his support for Sens and seeing there was really no good reason for it. Refuses to be scum lead sheep. Other than Paltry pointing out to Mr Finch that town lost the first BB mafia using Finch's suggested strategy, I am not too understaning of why he is getting so much suspicion pointed his way. Seems to be objectively questioning things that are questionable. The one statement of his that worries me was when he was addressing saber and said, " I don't really are if you are s[c]um or not. I want you gone, you are being a pain in the ass." I understand where he is coming from and agree to a certain point, but I am not sure that is the best way to be thinking. I want scum gone more than I want the ass gone.

Paltry
- seems pro-Town. He gave his support to me because he felt I was actually scumhunting as opposed to giving support to someone based on meta. Seemed to get a little too tunnelled on the whole Mufasa/whoot debacle. Good answers on his HoH application. Seems to point out to Finch that town lost the original BB Mafia game using the strategy that Finch suggested be used in this one. I, myself, have not read the original game and am only assuming the outcome of it based on this discussion. I think putting Paltry on the block to test his POV and discredit the idea that saber has one too may not be such a bad idea.

saberwolf
- not going to repeat all the reasons I have already pointed out, but he has been extremely anti-Town for a big portion of this game. I get the feeling he is holding a POV, or some form of immunity, and that gives him a sense of invulnerability and feels he has somewhat of a free pass to act like a Jester. His play has been so bad and anti-town, that I feel putting him on the block is a waste at this time that will produce very little info. I think it is best to watch him over the next day or two and see if he is actually scum or just someone being an idiot.

SensFan
- presented a good idea at the first of the game but then went into lurker mode. Since rejoining, he has been over-defensive, has completely tunneled into an anti-Sly onslaught, refusing to give valid submissions for evictee nominations. Finally seemed to calm down and offer up real nominee suggestions for eviction.

Sironigous
- started the game off fairly well but at some point seemed to fall into ridiculousness. Presented up distracting numbers nonsense. Has given some absolutely stupid reasons for some of his stances. His posts seem to be made just for the sake of posting while offering up no real contribution. Strong VI candidate.

Snow_bunny
- seems pro-Town. Light contributions so far, but nothing stands out as scummy or anti-town to me. Could snow be genius scum flying way below the radar?

zwet
- totally useless. Severe lurking, no meaningful contributions, ignoring HoH evictee nomination phase. Got relatively strong support nomination from kmd leading me to highly suspect a kmd/zwet connection.

Initial suspicions:
Scum team 1: kmd/zwet/llama
Scum team 2: Sens/animopherv/(saber or
Grandi
pablito)

------------------------------------------------

My initial suggestions (definitely due to change based on discussion):

Pick 1 - kmd (alternate Sens)
Pick 2 - zwet (alternate animopherv)
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:30 am

Post by SlySly »

Suggested evictee list so far (subject to change):


SlySly (HoH)
- kmd
zwet
--------------------------------------
kmd
- Paltry
Mr Finch

saber
--------------------------------------
saber
- Mr Finch (gut feeling)
SensFan
--------------------------------------
snow_bunny
- saber (all the obvious reasons)
siroginous (numbers talk/distraction, general scum read)
--------------------------------------
animopherv
- zwet (gut read)
Mr Finch (gut read)
--------------------------------------
llama
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
sironigous
- SensFan (deadline appearance after lurk, attacking Sly)
snow_bunny (ignoring posts and not answering questions)
--------------------------------------
SensFan
- saber
SlySly (anger, vote not included in count as it can't be taken seriously by HoH)

zwet
--------------------------------------
Mr Finch
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
Paltry
- saber
zwet
--------------------------------------
Crazy
- Mr Finch
animopherv
--------------------------------------
Grandi
pablito
- sironigous
snow_bunny
--------------------------------------

Yet to submit nomination suggestions: zwet, DisCode

--------------------------------------

Totals:

[HoH] SlySly

[1] animorpherv1 - Crazy
[0] Crazy
[0] Llamafluff
[1] Kmd4390 - Sly
[3] Mr Finch - saber, animopherv, Crazy
[0] DisCode
[1] PaltryExcuse - kmd
[6] saberwolf - snow_bunny, llamafluff, SensFan, Mr Finch, Paltry, kmd
[2] SensFan - saber, sironigous
[2] Sironigous - snow_bunny, pablito
[2] snow_bunny - sironigous, pablito
[0] pablito
[6] zwetschenwasser - animopherv, llamafluff, Mr Finch, Paltry, SensFan, Sly
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:36 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

@Sly:

I've been told I have a pro-mafia meta, or something like that. I've been trying to change it, but have no idea how.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:42 am

Post by SlySly »

animorpherv1 wrote:@Sly:

I've been told I have a pro-mafia meta, or something like that. I've been trying to change it, but have no idea how.
I can relate, look at my sig! :D

What are your thoughts on kmd?
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:02 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Meh. Is trying to do something, but not that well. Slightly pro-town.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:20 am

Post by SensFan »

Sly is tunneling and OMGUSing so badly towards me, it's not even funny.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:21 am

Post by SensFan »

In addition:

The word "over defensiveness" is a red herring at best, scummy attempt to slander at worst. There is no such thing as being too defensive, and it's not remotely scummy.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:22 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

SensFan wrote:In addition:

The word "over defensiveness" is a red herring at best, scummy attempt to slander at worst. There is no such thing as being too defensive, and it's not remotely scummy.
I've caught scum for overdefensiveness, thank you.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:25 am

Post by SensFan »

animorpherv1 wrote:
SensFan wrote:In addition:

The word "over defensiveness" is a red herring at best, scummy attempt to slander at worst. There is no such thing as being too defensive, and it's not remotely scummy.
I've caught scum for overdefensiveness, thank you.
No, you definatively haven't.

If a player is being defensive, or 'over defensive', it means they are passionate, that's about it. How in God's name can you say that it's scummy or anti-town for a Town player to defend themselves if they're attacked? Should we just sit back and let people lynch us for stupid arguments?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:27 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

SensFan wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:
SensFan wrote:In addition:

The word "over defensiveness" is a red herring at best, scummy attempt to slander at worst. There is no such thing as being too defensive, and it's not remotely scummy.
I've caught scum for overdefensiveness, thank you.
No, you definatively haven't.

If a player is being defensive, or 'over defensive', it means they are passionate, that's about it. How in God's name can you say that it's scummy or anti-town for a Town player to defend themselves if they're attacked? Should we just sit back and let people lynch us for stupid arguments?
If all they do once they get atatcked is be defensive and stop scumhunting, then I consider that "overdefensiveness" and a scumtell.

fos:SensFan
someone's angry they didn't get HoH.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:29 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

SlySly wrote:I think putting Paltry on the block to test his POV and discredit the idea that saber has one too may not be such a bad idea.
I have no problem with this, so long as town is willing to lose one of two chances at this PoV on a test. It is why I originally asked whether the PoV itself is good for the town, as it gives one more person, along with the HoH, a weekly immunity.

However,
@Sly: It is scary to start playing the scum team game without even having a single mafia reveal.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:31 am

Post by SensFan »

animorpherv1 wrote:
SensFan wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:
SensFan wrote:In addition:

The word "over defensiveness" is a red herring at best, scummy attempt to slander at worst. There is no such thing as being too defensive, and it's not remotely scummy.
I've caught scum for overdefensiveness, thank you.
No, you definatively haven't.

If a player is being defensive, or 'over defensive', it means they are passionate, that's about it. How in God's name can you say that it's scummy or anti-town for a Town player to defend themselves if they're attacked? Should we just sit back and let people lynch us for stupid arguments?
If all they do once they get atatcked is be defensive and stop scumhunting, then I consider that "overdefensiveness" and a scumtell.

fos:SensFan
someone's angry they didn't get HoH.
Then that has nothing with being too defensive, it has to do with them not scumhunting. That's completely different, and completely irrelevant.

That second part is laughable. I never really wanted HoH; you were the one trying to push it onto me.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:32 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

About this 'overdefensiveness': I think it goes from player to player, and isn't really a scum tell. Based on my sole completed game, on Day 3 there were 3 people who could have been lynched, and the only person who wasn't overdefensive was myself... the lone mafia remaining in the game. If I go solely from my previous experience (which is admittedly minimal) town is more likely to be defensive. But I'm going to stick with it depends on the player.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:32 am

Post by pablito »

Bolding is my emphasis

Snow_Bunny wrote: HoH applicationform
1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?
Not really. What it matters is that such player should be pro-town, and willing to listen to general consensus. A rogue HOH won't likely do us any good.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)
Yes.
The game should develop as a normal game, imo, with the town scumhunting and voting for their favourites.
Then, the HoH should nominate the two top suspects, and then eliminate one of them. I think we will gather the most amount of information from this tactic (we can see how other players and the HoH act, unlike what we would gain if the HoH decides everything by itself)
Okay, that's good. But at the same time we cannot let the HoH get away scott free and not be able to express opinion. This part doesn't sound so bad yet. Nonetheless, I'd much rather see more scumhunting. So far, the unique contribution you've made is that Sironigus is distracting with numbers talk. So then I should ask, at that specific moment in time why was his being a distraction - what important discussion or flow did he distract from (I don't necessarily disagree with you...but I want further explanation)?
Snow_Bunny wrote:3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?
No. I'd pick the town's top two suspects. If I'm very suspicious of someone that town isn't, I would discuss it with town and expose my case.
But if town doesn't want it that way, chances are that I will end up following the people's voice.
There's a difference between saying the above and saying "If the town doesn't want it that way, I will follow the people's voice." The phrase "Chances are that I will end up..." is language that shows that you are hedging and saying that you'd end up following the town, but it's not your choice and it's against your will. You lack of conviction in saying this is what gets me. And I am construing this as putting your will into others' hands - which at this point I see as scummy. There's a different sense I get in the words that you chose to use.

Snow_Bunny wrote:...Gut helps sometimes, but
chances are that such gut feeling about the scumminess of another player will end up as a mislynch.
Unless I have a very, very strong feeling about someone, I would do as town says.
I disagree with this statement, but that's personal preference. I do not think that gut necessarily leads to mislynch. But the way this is said you are showing distaste for gut feelings. I can respect that point, but I also don't see you doing too much scumhunting yet.
Snow_Bunny wrote: 4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___
I don't have much now, but let it be note this: saberwolf's post about mufasa struck me as opportunistic, and his laziness on answering the question doesn't help him either. Probably mufasa wasn't in the same scum team as saberwolf, and now he suspects the accounts were in different teams.
So, if I had to nominate someone,
I'd go with saberwolf for now.
Again the language is "if I had to nominate", not "I would nominate". Minor change, but again sounds like you really wouldn't have put up your choices unless you had to.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:39 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Sens, that's what it honestly looked like for me.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:42 am

Post by SlySly »

SensFan wrote:Sly is tunneling and OMGUSing so badly towards me, it's not even funny.
Really? You appear to be the tunneler. With this response, one would think I had listed you as my main nominee. How about getting over the fact that you are one of my alternate choices and start discussing the pros and cons of the 2 I have actually suggested putting up. If you refuse, that will speak for itself. My suggestions can change before I finalize them.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:44 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

SensFan wrote: You're misreading the word 'admittedly'.

Try looking at it as if it read: "I'd nominate Saber: He has been scummy by his own admission". It makes a whole lot more sense. Especially given's saber's recent decision to ruin games (leading to him being banned from joining games, might I add).
Ok, that makes more sense.

-----------------

Paltry 345,

I agree with you about Animorph. He's pretty high on my list.

I agree about Grandi. He's been replaced though.

I agree about Zwet. To answer your question, if he was HOH he would have no choice but to nominate two people. The two people the HOH chooses can tell us a lot about an HOH. The fact that Zwet offers nothing but short baseless posts is even more reason for us to get information on him any way we can.

Sir is mostly a gut town feeling.

Finch's post showed a town thought process that is hard to fake. Then again, I used this logic once recently in another game and it turned out to be my traitor scumbuddy.

Snow seems to be playing how she normally does. She's one of the players I have the hardest time reading though.
zwetschenwasser wrote:Why does KMD think I would take a position if I were nominated? Wouldn't that do absolutely nothing?
If you were nominated for HOH, you'd HAVE TO put up two players for eviction. Sly is asking for two names from you now and you haven't given any. Change that ASAP.

--------------

Sly, I'm not even sure what to say about your suspicion on me. I've explained why I wanted Zwet as HOH. The rest of your case seems to be that I played well as scum in Mirth's game.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:46 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

@Sly: Wait a tic. You mentioned that Llama's reasons for nominating kmd for HoH made it impossible for you to nominate him for HoH. Who did you want as HoH other than yourself? You didn't have a vote on anyone from what I can see at the end of the day.
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:46 am

Post by SensFan »

SlySly wrote:
SensFan wrote:Sly is tunneling and OMGUSing so badly towards me, it's not even funny.
Really? You appear to be the tunneler. With this response, one would think I had listed you as my main nominee. How about getting over the fact that you are one of my alternate choices and start discussing the pros and cons of the 2 I have actually suggested putting up. If you refuse, that will speak for itself. My suggestions can change before I finalize them.
I'm not tunelling at all, I happen to think you're Scum. There's a difference.

As for the nominations, is there a reason in particular that you have such a ridiculously massive townread on saber?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:11 am

Post by SlySly »

PaltryExcuse wrote:@Sly: Wait a tic. You mentioned that Llama's reasons for nominating kmd for HoH made it impossible for you to nominate him for HoH. Who did you want as HoH other than yourself? You didn't have a vote on anyone from what I can see at the end of the day.
You and Crazy were the only two I was still considering as valid HoH candidates. I would prefer not to waste your POV, it could come in handy for the town later.

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SensFan wrote: As for the nominations, is there a reason in particular that you have such a ridiculously massive townread on saber?
First off, I didn't nominate or suggest nominating saber for eviction, care to comment on those I have suggested? Is there some reason you are so obviously trying to steer the discussion away from the topic at hand?

As far as my read on saber, it is more of an idiot read. There is a difference. He could be scum or he could be a VI townie with some form of invulnerability. He is an obvious enough bad player to leave alive for now. I doubt anyone will give him the HoH and I am sure that he is on the radar of any town player that might get HoH.
SensFan wrote: I'm not tunelling at all
Keep on lying to yourself.

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animopherv wrote: Sens, that's what it honestly looked like for me.
What exactly did you mean when you said this? Your lack of quoting what you were responding to, left this open to multiple interpretations.

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kmd wrote: Sly, I'm not even sure what to say about your suspicion on me. I've explained why I wanted Zwet as HOH. The rest of your case seems to be that I played well as scum in Mirth's game.
Yes, you did explain and it made no sense to me. No matter who got put up would have to pick 2 people. Your pick of zwet and Llama's overwhelming support of you and his inability to convince me he had an actual reason for that support, leads me to believe there is a connection between you 3. I sense a strong connection between animopherv and Sens as well, but the kmd/zwet/Llama connection seems stronger to me at this point than theirs and that is why I went with my picks over those two. You did play well as scum in Mirth's game, but without that a late game invulnerability gift Mirth gave you, it would have turned out different! :D
"SlySly is the scummiest player on the site." ~DrippingGoofball
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PaltryExcuse
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:15 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

On Sly's possible nominations:
a) I like the zwet nom, obviously, as he was one of mine.
b) The kmd nomination I don't really understand... it's more based on his relationship to zwet then what kmd has done in this game. I agree his convictions on me are stronger than I think evidence dictates (along with wrong). It just seems gut based, and at this point I'd rather 2 nominees who have evidence against them. I'd prefer an animorph nominee than a Sens nominee. I think pablito's point that people need to not worry so much about the PoV being in Saber's hand (thought it is not) is a good point, and he seems to be just looking for a place to seem less suspicious than any progression of the game.
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animorpherv1
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:15 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

SensFan wrote:Then that has nothing with being too defensive, it has to do with them not scumhunting. That's completely different, and completely irrelevant.
I was replying to this. I think that overdefensivness is titled in one way, and he doesn't belive it exists as a scumtell at all.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:18 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

I will have either NO OR LITTLE ACCESS ON DECEMBER 15th
[/b]
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:21 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

SlySly wrote:I would prefer not to waste your POV, it could come in handy for the town later.
Just to make sure everyone knows (as there has been a lot of confusion about the PoV) I don't keep it from week to week. I pass it on, and if you get passed it, you can't give it back to the person whom gave it to you.

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