Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm the cop by the way.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm the cop by the way.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

@MIC: You talked about me and Socrates - what makes you support me over nhammen for mayor?

I've said this somewhere before. You're a nice balance of looking town (to me) and posing no threat even if you were mayor as scum.

@Nhammen, I cannot answer for anything Monkey did. It almost looks like you're expecting me to. Just a warning.

It looked to me like Serial wanted everyone to comment on it. Commenting and showing why he is not a good candidate looks like he didn't want to be mayor to me.

I completely disagree here. Serial wanted people to comment on the

validity of the list itself

and/or

players who fit the criteria

(i.e. 'candidates' - not 'non-candidates') maybe, but I honestly do not see a reason to fill it out when you don't want to be at least considered for mayor (with the

possible

special exception of its creator, see below). Wouldn't a simple 'I don't want to be mayor' suffice? Or even 'I shouldn't be mayor because I suck at scumhunting, townhunting and convincing people'. Or even not mentioning it at all, like most people. Again, I don't think anyone can truthfully claim that they fit all the criteria (I mean yours was 1/5, yet you're still supporting yourself).

!! Especially considering that Serial did the SAME THING in the post where he asked the question. Why are you

two

attacking Saint for this but not Serial?

I wasn't even attacking Kerrigan until Charter asked me to (it was a page 4 gut vote FFS). Also, Serial's context was not the same. There were several people campaigning for him to be mayor. He then creates a list of mayoral qualities, and demonstrates that he himself does not fit all these qualities (meaning there are better options). And seriously Nhammen, think of how fishy it would be if Serial spews out this list and proceeds

not

to answer it himself given the support on him at the time. But I do believe Serial wants to be mayor

to an extent

, he's just saying that it might not be the best idea. I have a (very) mild scum read on Serial anyway, as mentioned in my last post.

Anyone not voting Monkey, please explain why.

I find it ridiculous how you resort to threats like this and 'town points' to get people on your wagons. Seriously don't, it's annoying.

Comments on recent Monkey developments after I sleep, wake up, do stuff, etc.

[charter]

I wasn't even attacking Kerrigan until Charter asked me to (it was a page 4 gut vote FFS).

Can you point this out for me? Don't remember asking you attack Kerrigan, because I'm pretty sure I never did.

How is asking people to explain why they aren't voting for the scummiest player a threat? I want to know what whoever you're voting has done that is so scummy as to overtake Monkey. I'm not sorry if my scumhunting is annoying you.

I'm not unvoting Monkey. I would be willing to if we all claimed cop or not cop and no one countered, but pushing that got me lynched recently instead of the obvscum person who claimed cop, so I'm not pushing that again.

[SerialClergyman]

Odd claim. 4am, can't process it.

Wondering if cop is powerful enough to let monkey live even if scummy.

Don't want a counter claim from any other cop.

Ugh, sleep. For now, I'll make Spyrex hate me through the ether and

unvote

[kyle99]

Ok, I'm gonna

support: Socrates

since he seems to know what he's doing. I don't know whether I want to vote Monkey yet, since I don't want to lynch the cop, but there's a big chance that that's a L1 last change fake-claim. I guess I'll put him at L1, because I'm pretty sure noone can get lynched until we elect a mayor.

vote: Monkeyman

[nhammen]

I'm the cop by the way.

Shit! I can believe this.

unvote

Note: This may only be temporary. Monkey, you need to answer the questions I have asked you. Here they are again:
Have you ever been scum, and if so, in what game?
Can you quote exactly what Saint has said that makes you think he wanted to be mayor?
Why did you attack Saint for something that Serial did as well?

@Nhammen, I cannot answer for anything Monkey did. It almost looks like you're expecting me to. Just a warning.

Nope, but I can see why you thought that. I was just saying that your argument sucked. Then I said that Monkey's support of this argument sucked as well. Two different comments aimed at two different players.

It looked to me like Serial wanted everyone to comment on it. Commenting and showing why he is not a good candidate looks like he didn't want to be mayor to me.

I completely disagree here. Serial wanted people to comment on the

validity of the list itself

and/or

players who fit the criteria

(i.e. 'candidates' - not 'non-candidates') maybe, but I honestly do not see a reason to fill it out when you don't want to be at least considered for mayor (with the

possible

special exception of its creator, see below). Wouldn't a simple 'I don't want to be mayor' suffice? Or even 'I shouldn't be mayor because I suck at scumhunting, townhunting and convincing people'. Or even not mentioning it at all, like most people. Again, I don't think anyone can truthfully claim that they fit all the criteria (I mean yours was 1/5, yet you're still supporting yourself).

Well then we disagree, because that is what I saw. How about we do what we should have done pages ago: Saint, what was you reason for filling out Serial's mayor criterion list?

I wasn't even attacking Kerrigan until Charter asked me to (it was a page 4 gut vote FFS).

Ummm... Two comments on this line: 1 - Gut votes are crap. 2 - So after Charter asked you to explain your vote, you decided to find a reason? Am I understanding what you are saying incorrectly here?

Also, Serial's context was not the same. There were several people campaigning for him to be mayor. He then creates a list of mayoral qualities, and demonstrates that he himself does not fit all these qualities (meaning there are better options). And seriously Nhammen, think of how fishy it would be if Serial spews out this list and proceeds

not

to answer it himself given the support on him at the time. But I do believe Serial wants to be mayor

to an extent

, he's just saying that it might not be the best idea. I have a (very) mild scum read on Serial anyway, as mentioned in my last post.

So Serial wanted to preempt the push for him to be mayor. How is this different from Saint?

[charter]

FOS Kyle. I could lynch him too. Has not given a single original thought the whole game. Lurks hardcore. Follows the crowd. Probably lurkerscum.

Kyle, can you give us your top three suspect list and why you suspect them.

[kyle99]

FOS Kyle. I could lynch him too. Has not given a single original thought the whole game. Lurks hardcore. Follows the crowd. Probably lurkerscum.

Kyle, can you give us your top three suspect list and why you suspect them.

My top 3 suspect list is:

Monkeyman - He was at L1 and gave a pretty crappy excuse claiming cop.

nhammen - After monkeyman gets to L1, he says that he's a cop. nhammen says

Shit! I can believe this.

The fact that he believes the claim of cop when he was about to be lynched when he has already acted scummy.

DDD - He was a tonwnie in my last game, and this game, he's playing quite differently. Last game, he spent most of the game scumhunting, and this game, he seems to be posting, but not saying anything of importance.

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm the cop by the way.

Shit! I can believe this.

unvote

Note: This may only be temporary. Monkey, you need to answer the questions I have asked you. Here they are again:
Have you ever been scum, and if so, in what game?
Can you quote exactly what Saint has said that makes you think he wanted to be mayor?
Why did you attack Saint for something that Serial did as well?

@Nhammen, I cannot answer for anything Monkey did. It almost looks like you're expecting me to. Just a warning.

Nope, but I can see why you thought that. I was just saying that your argument sucked. Then I said that Monkey's support of this argument sucked as well. Two different comments aimed at two different players.

It looked to me like Serial wanted everyone to comment on it. Commenting and showing why he is not a good candidate looks like he didn't want to be mayor to me.

I completely disagree here. Serial wanted people to comment on the

validity of the list itself

and/or

players who fit the criteria

(i.e. 'candidates' - not 'non-candidates') maybe, but I honestly do not see a reason to fill it out when you don't want to be at least considered for mayor (with the

possible

special exception of its creator, see below). Wouldn't a simple 'I don't want to be mayor' suffice? Or even 'I shouldn't be mayor because I suck at scumhunting, townhunting and convincing people'. Or even not mentioning it at all, like most people. Again, I don't think anyone can truthfully claim that they fit all the criteria (I mean yours was 1/5, yet you're still supporting yourself).

Well then we disagree, because that is what I saw. How about we do what we should have done pages ago: Saint, what was you reason for filling out Serial's mayor criterion list?

I wasn't even attacking Kerrigan until Charter asked me to (it was a page 4 gut vote FFS).

Ummm... Two comments on this line: 1 - Gut votes are crap. 2 - So after Charter asked you to explain your vote, you decided to find a reason? Am I understanding what you are saying incorrectly here?

Also, Serial's context was not the same. There were several people campaigning for him to be mayor. He then creates a list of mayoral qualities, and demonstrates that he himself does not fit all these qualities (meaning there are better options). And seriously Nhammen, think of how fishy it would be if Serial spews out this list and proceeds

not

to answer it himself given the support on him at the time. But I do believe Serial wants to be mayor

to an extent

, he's just saying that it might not be the best idea. I have a (very) mild scum read on Serial anyway, as mentioned in my last post.

So Serial wanted to preempt the push for him to be mayor. How is this different from Saint?

I was scum in Mafia...91? I think. Also in TTGL Mafia.

When he felt out the 5 point checklist, then said he didn't want to be mayor, but then again...it seemed like he did want it and disingenuine.

It was the way that he went about it.

[xRECKONERx]

Ok, I'm gonna

support: Socrates

since he seems to know what he's doing. I don't know whether I want to vote Monkey yet, since I don't want to lynch the cop, but there's a big chance that that's a L1 last change fake-claim. I guess I'll put him at L1, because I'm pretty sure noone can get lynched until we elect a mayor.

vote: Monkeyman

...really?

..fucking really?

Unvote, Vote: kyle99

And while I'm at it,

support: nhammen

[MonkeyMan576]

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

[nhammen]

nhammen - After monkeyman gets to L1, he says that he's a cop. nhammen says

Shit! I can believe this.

The fact that he believes the claim of cop when he was about to be lynched when he has already acted scummy.

Sorry, but I have seen how he plays as town, and I can easily see town Monkey doing all of these things.

I was scum in Mafia...91? I think. Also in TTGL Mafia.

Thank you for providing this. Unfortunately after comparing your play here to both Mafia 91 and Mafia 97, I cannot tell the difference between twon Monkey and scum Monkey. It seems like this reaching with bad arguments and refusal to back down is part of his general meta. He does this both as scum and as town.

When he felt out the 5 point checklist, then said he didn't want to be mayor, but then again...it seemed like he did want it and disingenuine.

Explain how "it seemed like he did want it" please.

It was the way that he went about it.

Explain. I don't want short "just because" type answers. I want a real explanation here.

To all more experienced players: How do you tell the difference between scum and town on a player that always looks like the scummiest player in the game?

[nhammen]

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

I'm actually slightly worried about Reck. On the first few pages, I thought he looked protown. I no longer get that impression. Although, I'm glad for his support. It just seems like the two players other than myself that are supporting me are both players that I find mildly scummy. I don't know what to make of this.

I could also make a few comments on your suspicions, but don't want to add any unnecessary WIFOM to the game. Just go back and reread please.

[MonkeyMan576]

nhammen - After monkeyman gets to L1, he says that he's a cop. nhammen says

Shit! I can believe this.

The fact that he believes the claim of cop when he was about to be lynched when he has already acted scummy.

Sorry, but I have seen how he plays as town, and I can easily see town Monkey doing all of these things.

I was scum in Mafia...91? I think. Also in TTGL Mafia.

Thank you for providing this. Unfortunately after comparing your play here to both Mafia 91 and Mafia 97, I cannot tell the difference between twon Monkey and scum Monkey. It seems like this reaching with bad arguments and refusal to back down is part of his general meta. He does this both as scum and as town.

I find it difficult to peg down players early in the game. Thus I am forced to make arguments on less than stellar evidence and then get bushwacked for it. I think I play better the later in the game I get.

When he felt out the 5 point checklist, then said he didn't want to be mayor, but then again...it seemed like he did want it and disingenuine.

Explain how "it seemed like he did want it" please.

The way he said "I wouldn't vote for me, but..." seems like a disclaimer in case people might want to vote for him.

It was the way that he went about it.

Explain. I don't want short "just because" type answers. I want a real explanation here.

Well, I think I provided a better explanation above.

[xRECKONERx]

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

...how is that evidence of a me/nham scumteam, exactly?

[MonkeyMan576]

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

...how is that evidence of a me/nham scumteam, exactly?

Cause you were buddying with him in the beginning and buddying with him now.

[SaintKerrigan]

DDD, why are you voting for Kerrigan?

Didn't like him following SC's silly little mayoral candidate test, don't like him not wanting to be mayor, don't like his suspicions of me.

So you're saying that your vote wasn't random, then? Why don't you like the fact that I don't want to be mayor, and why don't you like my suspicions of you?

The way he said "I wouldn't vote for me, but..." seems like a disclaimer in case people might want to vote for him.

I assume the part in quotation marks was paraphrased, right? Because what I actually said and you make me out to say are two entirely different things. How difficult is it to understand the sentence "Basically, I wouldn't nominate me for mayor." As I already explained to MIC, I answered Serial's questionnaire because:

A: I thought it was a good idea.
B: I used it to highlight why exactly I shouldn't be a mayoral candidate.

Do you get it now? I don't want to be the mayor, and I never wanted to be the mayor.

@ MIC: See above.

@ Kyle99: You state in your post that you don't know whether you want to vote MonkeyMan, but then change your mind

within the same post

and vote the guy? Explain yourself, please.

[MonkeyMan576]

DDD, why are you voting for Kerrigan?

Didn't like him following SC's silly little mayoral candidate test, don't like him not wanting to be mayor, don't like his suspicions of me.

So you're saying that your vote wasn't random, then? Why don't you like the fact that I don't want to be mayor, and why don't you like my suspicions of you?

The way he said "I wouldn't vote for me, but..." seems like a disclaimer in case people might want to vote for him.

I assume the part in quotation marks was paraphrased, right? Because what I actually said and you make me out to say are two entirely different things. How difficult is it to understand the sentence "Basically, I wouldn't nominate me for mayor." As I already explained to MIC, I answered Serial's questionnaire because:

A: I thought it was a good idea.
B: I used it to highlight why exactly I shouldn't be a mayoral candidate.

Do you get it now? I don't want to be the mayor, and I never wanted to be the mayor.

@ MIC: See above.

@ Kyle99: You state in your post that you don't know whether you want to vote MonkeyMan, but then change your mind

within the same post

and vote the guy? Explain yourself, please.

I get that you're saying it. I'm not sure I believe you.

[SaintKerrigan]

I get that you're saying it. I'm not sure I believe you.

Very well. I think I've said all that can be said on that matter, anyway.

[charter]

nhammen - After monkeyman gets to L1, he says that he's a cop. nhammen says

Shit! I can believe this.

The fact that he believes the claim of cop when he was about to be lynched when he has already acted scummy.

This is actually a really good point. Retract that FOS I had on you.

nhammen, what could he have claimed that you would not have believed, and that you would have kept your vote on him? When you voted him, you said Monkey plays scummy even as town, but that you can't allow him to get away with such behavior even if he has a habit of doing it (which is true). Why did a claim of cop make you believe he is town and not scum?

[kyle99]

@ Kyle99: You state in your post that you don't know whether you want to vote MonkeyMan, but then change your mind

within the same post

and vote the guy? Explain yourself, please.

I said I wasn't sure, but its the best vote I have right now.

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, looks like I can't nail you(monkeyman576) to a cross due to a technicality (not talking about my catch up post), but I'm still really sure you're scum.

I was town.

Monkey, if you're going to try and use ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE arguments such as this, at least put a little effort in to it. That was referring to Elvis, WHO WAS SCUM. Really don't know why you'd try this, even if you had your facts straight, it's astronomically scummy.

I changed my vote too soon. Apologies. Anyone not voting Monkey, please explain why.

unvote, vote Monkey

Whoa! I just went back and read the segment you're talking about, and I think you may be right, Charter. At the very least, I can't think of a town reason why Monkey would do what he just did.

Vote: MonkeyMan576.

I advise everyone to go back and read the game Charter and I are talking about. Mini 848, Post #456. Go read the post preceding that (from Elvis_Knits), and then the post preceding that (from MM), and tell me that Charter's Post #456 is actually referring to MM.

[Col.Cathart]

I'll remain skeptic to Monkey's claim for now. Even if not counterclaimed, this is one of the easiest roles to claim. Also, since we are still far from choosing the mayor, his claim came prematurely which is never a good sign (although I'm one of the examples, that premature claim does not mean fake right off the bat, so this argument isn't condemning him).

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

...how is that evidence of a me/nham scumteam, exactly?

Cause you were buddying with him in the beginning and buddying with him now.

I would say, it's only point against Reck (yet another...). IMO scum buddying with townie is way more effective for scum, because it doesn't give an obvious trail to his partner AND gives a chance for a mislynch on another day. Also, I don't think Nhammen is scummy. Ok, his latest reaction to MM's claim was super sketchy, and I'm interested in hearing his answer to Charter, but he still looks Pro-Town in my books.

Bottom line:
Nhammen - doesn't look like a scum to me, yet.
Reckoner - oh hell, yes. I'm pretty sure either him or MM is a scum (possibly both, but due to MM's posts quoted above I think 'only one of them' option is more probable).

[kyle99]

mod: can we get vote/support count?