I believe Sando is now at L–1. I was going to wait a little, but I'm in
a bloodthirsty
an impatient mood, so I'll hammer if you guys (especially charter) really want it right now.
Scroll past the second line break for why Sando is scum. (The first half of this post is mostly rebuttal to his latest garbage argument.)
Kreriov wrote:(I will also point out that a CC fight right now undeniably favors the town, which makes my belief in muh's claim that much stronger.)
Yup. Scum already have their backs against the wall. We can afford to mislynch one claim and then drill the other the next day.
Sando, bigmc's trepidation about a scummy player simply being a newbie has nothing to do with his overall decisiveness in this game. I went over that a long time ago. My assertion that he was being cautious about his read of A SINGLE PLAYER does not contradict my assertion that he was IN GENERAL playing more decisively than in another game. Stop raising dead points that have already been proven wrong. It's making you look less like a stubborn townie and more like desperate scum. I did have a town read on bigmc for most of day 1, though toward the end it fell back to a null read. It became clear after BMC opportunistically attacked me on day 2 that he was scum, because his arguments were in clear contradiction to earlier posts and, IIRC, to his own past experiences. Changing reads is not a scum tell, as you should know by now.
Sando wrote:This is a clear scum-slip from crypto. You cannot accuse someone of being scum and then claim that they didn’t know someone was town. Scum know exactly who town is (at least in a single scum team game). The only way that crypto would know that I didn’t know Poms alignment is if crypto is himself scum.
What the hell are you talking about? I have not been accusing you of being scum. Use your brain. Read my rebuttals. Lose your stupid argumentation. I've been clinging to a tentative town read on you for a long freaking time. Your persistent sophism is making it more and more difficult. I said you didn't know Pomegranate's alignment because you were trying to use my mislynch of Pomegranate against me, which is supremely idiotic in the first place because townies mislynch ALL THE TIME. If they didn't, scum would NEVER win. Come on, man.
Sando wrote:Can you stop talking to me please? You said you weren’t going to talk to me until the end of D3, and it’s bliss.
If I don't talk to you, you give me crap. If I do talk to you, you give me crap. Make up your mind or replace out or tell the mod to mod-kill me or
something
, please. But yeah, "Bgmc, quite possibly scum, certainly up there" was the only thing you said in favor of him being scum all game, and you spent the rest of day 1 arguing with SerialClergyman over the SC/charter/muh/BMC fiasco. So this one quote looks to me like you basically planted a soft suspicion of BMC for later reference. You gave few or no reasons for BMC being scum, and then you essentially took his side during that debate. Smells like faux scum hunting to me. Oh, and hiphop is right: charter is a blindingly obvious townie.
Okay. I'm now leaning scum on Sando. I thought his stubbornness was a town tell, but his arguments are awful, redundant, ignorant, etc. That's not scummy on its own, but ... well, observe the text wall summarizing Sando's play throughout the game. Fun stuff.
Day 1
- Announces suspicion of both
bigmc109
and muh316
.
Gives no reason for suspicion of bigmc
But in the same post he partially excuses bigmc by applying the newbie card.
Mentions reluctance to lynch bigmc due to bigmc's activity.
Votes muh because of muh's lurk-lurk-lurk-wagon-wagon pattern of activity. Note that this is a completely legitimate reason to suspect muh.
- Sides against SerialClergyman and charter about
bigmc
and muh
. Advocates a muh lynch. Opposes a bigmc lynch.
The blue obviously pertains to muh, the red and orange to bigmc. The blue supports a muh scum read. The red supports a bigmc scum read. The orange either opposes a bigmc scum read or expresses indecision about bigmc's alignment or expresses reluctance to lynch bigmc – some form of non-bigmc-scum sentiment. Which certainly isn't scummy
on its own
. The catch, reason the wishy-washy bigmc sentiments are scummy, is that Sando gives hardly any reason for suspecting bigmc, and definitely no reason at all for suspecting him to any major degree. He just throws a soft FOS out there. The baseless bigmc suspicion coupled with the actual distaste for a Sando lynch when things get serious (i.e., when the bigmc-scum sentiment gets popular) spells out faux scum hunting on Sando's part, and, again, implies that Sando was simply laying an egg he could hatch (okay, horrible metaphor) if bigmc did get lynched and flipped scum. Sure enough, when that happened, Sando went back and reminded us that he suspected bigmc, even though in reality he hardly suspected him at all.
Night 1
- SerialClergyman is killed. (Obvious statement is necessary, sorry.)
- On day 1, Clergy expressed a sneaking suspicion that Sando was scum, and that suspicion hinged largely on the assumption that bigmc would flip scum. That is to say that Clergy as strongly considering that Sando and bigmc were scum buddies.
- I had considered before that either bigmc or Sando might have been scum on the basis that they would want to kill Clergy, a major attacker, but scum tend not to be so blatant with their night kills, and it was possible they were setting bigmc up to be mislynched on day 2. However ...
- Bigmc's motivation is now obvious, but Sando's is more cloak-and-dagger: Sando was worried that Clergy, who knows him in real life, was in the middle of figuring him out. Clergy would be intensely dangerous to keep alive because his knowledge of Sando's character is more intimate than ours – it'd be one thing if he had a town or null read on Sando, but a scum read would make it really, really dangerous. It makes even more sense now that bigmc has flipped scum, because that means bigmc and Sando might actually be teammates, and to have left Clergy alive when he was clamping down on at least two scum out of three would've been a
huge
leap of faith.
- TLDR: Sando and bigmc both had very strong motivation to kill off Clergy early on.
Day 2
- Sando pursues a case against me. If anything, it's pro-town at first, but (in my opinion) it descends into sophism on many fronts.
Really
weak vote for Kaiveran in between being rabid for my lynch. 
Cognitive dissonance, much? That's a Fail
in the scum hunting – pretend scum hunting, that is – department. I actually giggled a little at how silly this was when I saw it while rereading Sando's iso. a minute ago. Townies don't go from being all over one person's lynch to lazily voting for a lurker.
- I don't know how Sando, town or scum, might think he could maintain such an argument over the long term. Bearing that in mind, and considering that muh's jailkeeper claim is honest ...
Night 2
- Muh protects me. Nobody dies. That means I was targeted. We've already established this, but just for reference.
- Going back to day 2. Theoretically, Sando might've been onto something with his attacks on me, but his argument was false, horrible, redundant – all those adjectives I've already used. I struggle with the notion that Sando might really continue to believe his own case, and I can't imagine that he wasn't reaching exhaustion over the whole thing by the end of day 2. He was fighting a losing battle.
- But more importantly than the above: I got a whole lot of credibility when bigmc flipped scum. It'd be next to impossible to persuade the town that I'm mafia when my case against bigmc proved to be well founded. Freely busing on day 2 when there are four times as many townies as mafiosi is the dumbest maneuver bigmc and I could have concocted if we were scum buddies. There was no need for it at all; the mafia could have effortlessly pursued much easier targets without the con of losing one of their precious few members.
- So that's a huge point in my favor. The problem for Sando is that I was his only major target during day 2. His case was already weak, and it lost a lot of credibility with bigmc's scum flip. For Sando, the easiest way out
by far
would be to night-kill me and wag his tongue on day 3 about his shock that he was so wrong about my alignment, etc., etc.
- Had the night kill gone through successfully, Sando would be clear of the whole mess, and the kill wouldn't have made him look suspicious because it's generally a stupid move for a mafioso to kill off his top suspect. It's a huge waste of the
previous
day's effort, and it means the mafioso has to force himself to do more fake scum hunting the next
day.
- TLDR: Had Sando targeted someone else at night, he'd be able to get two relatively easy townies killed in rapid succession: first, his night kill target, and second, me. The snag was that between Sando's shitty case and bigmc's scum flip, I was becoming a difficult lynch. Hence the night kill, which would not make Sando suspicious for reasons explained above. The kill was Sando-scum's best course of action.
Day 3
- Since I'm still alive, Sando is railroaded into dragging on the crypto-scum case. He's also smeared suspicion over to charter.
- And he's wavered between finding muh scummy and thinking there are scum on muh's wagon. Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha ...
TLDR: There is no TLDR. This post has broken my attention span's back. I'm up for a hammer whenever, though it'd be nice of Sando popped back in to claim some power role that's not even in the setup, or whatever.
