Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[SaintKerrigan]

@ MonkeyMan576: So, you mean to say that you didn't read the bottom of every single one of MichelSableheart's vote/support counts (except the first), as well as his response to MIC's question regarding this exact mechanic? I find this difficult to believe.

[MonkeyMan576]

@ MonkeyMan576: So, you mean to say that you didn't read the bottom of every single one of MichelSableheart's vote/support counts (except the first), as well as his response to MIC's question regarding this exact mechanic? I find this difficult to believe.

I'm not using it as an excuse. I'm saying even with the rule, I still feel being at L-1 warrants a claim.

[Hoopla]

Okay, well I didn't know that. It doesn't specifically say that players can unvote and vote someone else. The situation was convoluted enough that I think a claim was warranted.

It had been brought up multiple times - it's not like it wasn't talked about.

[nhammen]

Monkey was unfairly pressured. His offense was not deserving of the intensity of the attack Charter directed at him. He cracked. Like what I did in this one game on one of my alts where I was town and asked if the RVS was over and got pounded on the basis of 'testing the waters' or whatever it was.

All else failed. He was desperate to prove Charter was wrong.

He resorted to AtE. What's important isn't the actual intention of Charter's post in Muppets, but rather what Monkey

believed

was its intention. Come on, think. Nobody would purposely throw onto the table an argument they thought was wrong. Then he claimed. That was his last resort. Because there was too much pressure.

I agree that Monkey did not do this (quote from Muppets) on purpose. If that was the only evidence against him, I wouldn't even find him scummy in the slightest. But just because 1 piece of evidence sucks does not mean all of the evidence sucks. Also, you REALLY should not be defending another player in this fashion. There are very few circumstances where this is pro-town.

ARTICLE 3
CONCERNING MY 'ATTACK' ON KERRIGAN

You should have just said it was gut if it was just gut. I would have disagreed, but my opinion on gut votes is my opinion. Giving more information, when your more information was not even a reason at all is scummy. Yes, I know your arguments make sense to you. When nobody else agreed, you should have backed down. That is Monkey's problem too. When he spots a "scumtell" he sticks with it, even when all other players point out that it is NOT a scumtell.

"2 - So after Charter asked you to explain your vote, you decided to find a reason? Am I understanding what you are saying incorrectly here?"

There is a difference between a reason

in my head

and a reason

I have to present in-thread to other people

. Post 66 set off my scumdar. There was a reason in my head. I voted him. A reason in my head is for my use only. It's made of brain signals. I usually only present an actual argument when I want to convince people that someone is scum. I could've ended it with 'it felt dishonest'. Maybe I should've. But I didn't, I explained it further. I turned brain signals into words. My words that eventually came out in-thread are what you interpreted as an attack on Kerrigan. Which it really wasn't (see above). Also see the bottom line of post 71. I was only half joking there.

In my opinion a reason in your head should always be just as valid as a reason that can be stated to other players. However, I know other players like gut and all, so I'll just stop about that.

"So Serial wanted to preempt the push for him to be mayor. How is this different from Saint?"

I don't even understand this question.

Your explanation was that Serial wanted to stop people from voting him for mayor, because a few people were pushing for this. How is this different from what Saint was doing? Just because nobody was voting for Saint yet?

"And if Monkey is not scum, then we shouldn't be lynching him. Either way, I think at this point vote MIC is the way to go."

Would you mind explaining to me the logic behind me being scum if Monkey isn't? Because if this reasoning flies then defending players is now considered a scumtell regardless of the alignment of the defended player. Which I am really going to laugh hard about post-game.

As I said, defending Monkey is not the only reason that I find you scummy. What is very interesting is that most of the players I find scummy other than yourself (Monkey, Reck, and to a much smaller extent Serial) have strong connections to you. When you have multiple different possible scumpairs, the sensible option is to lynch the common factor. Discounting Monkey, you are the scummiest player here, and you have connections with #2 and #3 on that list.

Kyle - This guy looks town~

ish

so far. Could be town.
Danny - This guy

seriously

needs to post moar. No idea.

How did you get a read on Kyle but not Danny? They both need to post more.

Nhammen - This guy's lack of focus is worrisome. But probably town.

Define "lack of focus"

You guys are seriously tempting me to want to lynch Monkey. If he flips town I will be proven right all along and you can start listening to me and we can all stop being silly. But of course that's horrible logic. Don't tempt me even more

please

. Oh hi, opportunists and Nhammen and Charter, I still love you guys. My vote on Kerrigan is pretty useless right now. There is nothing to argue with him about. But voting Cathart won't do anything either considering you people's immense hatred of gut-driven suspicions.

If he flips town you will be proven right?? This comment pings my scumdar.

You keep calling me and charter opportunists. Why?

Voting Cathart is something I was thinking of. When I have no memory of a player's actions it says something about that player. In the past, this has usually been because the player is intentionally hiding. However, I have seen nothing else scummy from him. So maybe it's a problem with my memory.

So, at least for a little while, if we assume monkey town and MIC town, then the person who sticks out is nhammen to me.

Why?

This nhammen wagon reeks of scum tbqh

There is only one player voting me. This is no wagon. Also, does this quote mean that you think that Serial is scum?

[SerialClergyman]

nhammen - I think you stand out because of your reaction to the claim, a few language/theory things (who doesn't like gut votes?) and because if I'm going to leave monkey alive it makes more sense to assume he's town, and if that's the case I think MIC has a fair case for being town too, and they are by far your two biggest targets.

And I LOVE defending other players and don't consider it anti-town in the least. If you've got town reads, use them.

And there's a little bit of gut thrown in.

Reckoner's talking about the nhammen wagon is interesting. Possible town tell that he didn't check who was actually voting. It could well have seemed that there were more people voting him, with a bit of nhammen suspicion after the monkey claim and a few unvotes. I think town have less reason to be precise about things like that than scum do.

By the way, things like this:

he flips town you will be proven right?? This comment pings my scumdar

I 100% agree with. That's exactly what I meant when I said his playstyle grated with me. It remminds me very much of commie mafia.

[Socrates]

im here. My computer has been on the fritz. I think I am Ok right now though.

I'm not sure how to respond to Monkey's claim. On the one hand, the idea of Monkey living to the endgame is completely laughable and if he is telling the truth it would be nice to get at least 1 investigation out of him. On the other, I am worried about being led astray by a fakeclaim, and letting someone I think is scum live seems like bad strategy...

I don't know. I want Monkey to die eventually, but does it have to be today?

Nhammen's response to Monkey's claim is similar to how it went down in my head. I don't think his indecision is scummy at all.

I think there is some stuff I need to respond to. I'll do that tonight.

If I had to move my vote, im not sure who I would vote quite yet. I have multiple town reads, but I have few strong scum reads right now.

I am going to look more closely at SC, RECKONER, MIC, and Kyle.

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

@Hoopla: What do you feel about the fact that you got 4 support votes for mayor when the only game post you had was a reasonless vote on Kyle?

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: What do you feel about the fact that you got 4 support votes for mayor when the only game post you had was a reasonless vote on Kyle?

Because I'm awesome, or something. My guess is as good as yours.

[kyle99]

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

Serial seems like a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy.

[Socrates]

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

Serial seems like a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy.

SC: What do you mean by clueless? Are you finding yourself disagreeing with much of his arguments? if so, why do you get town from that?

MIC: How strong is this scum read? Would you be willing to lynch him instead of Monkey today?

[kyle99]

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

Serial seems like a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy.

SC: What do you mean by clueless? Are you finding yourself disagreeing with much of his arguments? if so, why do you get town from that?

MIC: How strong is this scum read? Would you be willing to lynch him instead of Monkey today?

By clueless, I was refering to this line:

Ugh, I'd lynch kyle, reckoner, DDD, MM, nhammen and Socrates atm. I'm officially a convert of Hoopla's mayor plan.

So, he wants to make Hoopla mayor, and he has made almost no posts of value, and he wants to lynch 6 different people. Seems kinda clueless.

My scum read on MIC isn't as big as my scum read on monkey, and I would much rather lynch monkey, but his cop claim kinda complicates things, and a couple people want to wait to lynch monkey until D2. So I guess I could go either way, but I personally think lynching monkey today is the right play.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Latest back and forth seals the deal in regards to lynching Monkey, I really can't view such willful negligence as anything other than scummy as hell.

We need to either adopt Hoopla's plan or select someone else to be mayor and then get with the lynching.

Unsupport; Support: Monkeyman

[MonkeyMan576]

Latest back and forth seals the deal in regards to lynching Monkey, I really can't view such willful negligence as anything other than scummy as hell.

We need to either adopt Hoopla's plan or select someone else to be mayor and then get with the lynching.

Unsupport; Support: Monkeyman

Nothing like a false dilemma.

[nhammen]

Wait What?? How does the latest back and forth seal anything?

[nhammen]

And why so fast to push for following Hoopla's plan?

[nhammen]

Sorry for the triple post, but that post from DDD was just weird.

I guess it isn't fast. Since his is the first support for Monkey that I can remember.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Wait What?? How does the latest back and forth seal anything?

You mean the part where he said he thought he was going to be lynched where basically admitted to not reading the thread and then changing that to “L-1 always warrants a claim” which is also wrong.

And why so fast to push for following Hoopla's plan?

I already said it made sense to me despite it being contrarian logic, but till now everyone has been wishy-washy on it. Well I think it’s time to make a decision whether or not we move forward with it and I’m now in the books as supporting it.

[MonkeyMan576]

Wait What?? How does the latest back and forth seal anything?

You mean the part where he said he thought he was going to be lynched where basically admitted to not reading the thread and then changing that to “L-1 always warrants a claim” which is also wrong.

I didn't say L-1 always warrants a claim. Quoting(incorrectly) out of context is scummy. In this case, I felt it warranted a claim. It had nothing to do with the rules.

[Hoopla]

Wait What?? How does the latest back and forth seal anything?

You mean the part where he said he thought he was going to be lynched where basically admitted to not reading the thread and then changing that to “L-1 always warrants a claim” which is also wrong.

I didn't say L-1 always warrants a claim. Quoting(incorrectly) out of context is scummy. In this case, I felt it warranted a claim. It had nothing to do with the rules.

Stupid. You really didn't need to claim. I won't be completely upset if Monkey is lynched today, if only because the cop has a slim chance of ever actually being useful now he's outed, but I'd still prefer lynching elsewhere.

Kyle is a decent choice for that position.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd say lynch Kyle.

I'm also officially not a fan of Hoopla's plan and would prefer nhammen for Mayor. But if majority agrees on Hoop's plan, I'm on board.

[MonkeyMan576]

I wouldn't oppose a kyle lynch, although he's not my top suspect.

[Hoopla]

I'd say lynch Kyle.

I'm also officially not a fan of Hoopla's plan and would prefer nhammen for Mayor. But if majority agrees on Hoop's plan, I'm on board.

You dislike the plan, but you'll be persuaded once a majority thinks it's a good idea. How would lots of people agreeing change your mind - can't think for yourself?

[xRECKONERx]

No - I just don't think mayor on D1 is that important so I'm not gonna prevent the town from electing who they actually want.

[xRECKONERx]

Also: I don't mean just the votes on the wagon, I mean the general suspicion of nhammen.

[SerialClergyman]

I'd point out to Monkey that if you are genuine and you did choose to claim there, you need to post more than 'By the way, I'm the cop".

Flavour, thought processes, a plan for action now that you're exposed etc etc - all that stuff gives us much more to go on. Quite frankly, that post could have been made after you were lynched with exactly the same tone.

I'm not confused, I'm just not seeing many obviously town players. There's a few peopel on my no-lynch list, but just by the nature of where we are I'd be happy with heaps of lynches.

DDD is on that list primarily because he's been close to a non-participant and was very prickly when questioned earlier, even more so than usual. In fact, having a quick glance over your play, you've managed to point out you have a bad history with monkey, and appreciate that he can look scummy while being town. You voted Kerrigan without any follow up or stated reasoning and had a go at Reckoner for not contributing much and having poor votes (hypocrasy much?), but that's essentially all your suspicions.

And now you're back on Monkey pushing the claimed cop wagon based on policy. Lots to be wary of with DDD's play.

Ok, so I know it sucks when I'm all vaue so here are a summary of my concrete positions.

I am FOR Hoopla's mayoral plan.
I am AGAINST a lynch of Monkey.
I am AGAINST a lynch of MIC.
I am FOR a lynch of nhammen or DDD. There are other players I'd be happy to lynch if I need to compromise to get a wagon up.

Hoopla, are you on full internaet access now?

unsupport hoopla

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD is on that list primarily because he's been close to a non-participant and was very prickly when questioned earlier, even more so than usual. In fact, having a quick glance over your play, you've managed to point out you have a bad history with monkey, and appreciate that he can look scummy while being town. You voted Kerrigan without any follow up or stated reasoning and had a go at Reckoner for not contributing much and having poor votes (hypocrasy much?), but that's essentially all your suspicions.

And now you're back on Monkey pushing the claimed cop wagon based on policy. Lots to be wary of with DDD's play.

What nonsense.

A) I'm pricklier than usual? So you've played with me and I was prickly as town. So when I'm prickly again (only more so) it suddenly becomes scummy? How convenient.

B) Now I know you've only seen me as a late game replacement so you aren't aware of the fact that I'm a slow starter, but well that's the truth of the matter. I can easily self-meta that (or you can all else being equal I favor being lazy).

C) You're trying to hit me for my Kerrigan vote which was my first/second post of the game. You're telling me that a vote at that point wouldn't have stated reasons? The horror.

D) You're falling into the same trap charter mentioned earlier that you're afraid to lynch a power role claim on day one which automatically gives scum a free pass to day two as long as they're willing to claim a power role. You're the one whose being unreasonable by being unwilling to consider it; I've considered it and I believe Monkey's claim to be bogus and thus I'm going to act on my instincts.