Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[Sanjay]

Re: point 2:

Don't be an ass. Explain why it is scummy.

Re: point 1:

Did you miss it entirely? Did you not read page 40? Did you not see page 40 on day 1?

You are either scum or really really ridiculous town, BigBear.

[Sanjay]

I wasn't actually reading the thread, but I still thought it was a good idea for me to get in there and hammer DJ once it became clear he was going to be the day's lynch.

How did I know? MAGIC.

[BigBear]

I still want to get to bed....

I'll get to your post later furry.

Re:Re: Point 2:
-I'll get to that later

Re:Re: Point 1:
No, I was somewhat lurky dude, don't you remember? I began modding my first game around that point. So when Day two occurred, and we had that freaking week long night 1, I came back and only looked page 41. I find it interesting that you are bashing me for not looking at it right away, I actually intend to bring something up about another player that happened on page 41, however I am not going to do it now because it's not the right time.

[Sanjay]

I wasn't actually reading the thread, but I still thought it was a good idea for me to get in there and hammer DJ once it became clear he was going to be the day's lynch.

How did I know? MAGIC.

I am bashing you for this now.

Get some sleep. We'll talk tomorrow.

[BigBear]

I wasn't actually reading the thread, but I still thought it was a good idea for me to get in there and hammer DJ once it became clear he was going to be the day's lynch.

How did I know? MAGIC.

I think that just reinforces my point....

[Sanjay]

Was your point that you are scum?

I don't know because I only read pages that have lynch scenes on them.

[BigBear]

Was your point that you are scum?

I don't know because I only read pages that have lynch scenes on them.

My point was that i was actively lurking and only had time to hammer. Then when I came back after a week I didn't read the whole thread.

[Sanjay]

You were actively lurking but not reading the thread?

[BigBear]

You were actively lurking but not reading the thread?

at that point in time i was very busy with other things, so in a sense, yes.

[BigBear]

what are you getting at here?

[Sanjay]

How did you both know that DJ was the player to hammer AND miss my case against you until I pointed it out on D2?

[BigBear]

Whenever i'm behind I always check the last page to see what's going on. I saw this post and figured i might as well vote.

Even if I had been reading, I would have seen the dead line looming, hammered, and gotten to your post probably near the beginning of day two. However since night 1 was 7 days, I probably would have forgotten about it anyways. Aside from that, your actions would have been, and still are scummy, regardless of what time i would have brought up the case. I would have called you out for the exact same thing, and your defense now, would not work the same if I had put the case against you at the beginning of day 2.

[BigBear]

EBWOP:

Because i'm bringing it up now, as opposed to earlier, you are saying (at least I am presuming this) that my actions are scummy, whereas if I had brought this case up earlier, you would not be able to say this. Then I guess I would have an air tight case.... right?

[Sanjay]

Because a week is so long to remember that someone tried to vote for you for extremely scummy reasons.

Why even vote? Because DRK asked you to? The deadline lynch rules made your vote entirely irrelevant.

Besides, page 41 is a really wacky page. You are telling me that reading that didn't make you the least bit curious to look back a page to see how we came to that?

This all just seems so implausible, BigBear.

[Sanjay]

If you had brought this up a week ago, you'd have a relatively good case against me that would happen to be wrong. I wouldn't be suspicious of you for that. I really don't see what is inherently scummy about my day 1 post against you as you implied, but duh duh duh, I've been over this a thousand million times that I wouldn't be suspicious of you if you had come out of the gate swinging at me.

[Sanjay]

Don't worry, we all have our regrets.

[DeathRowKitty]

@BB
I linked this post because it's too long to reasonably quote. In this post, your only comment about my defense is that you didn't like part of it, yet by the end of the post, you unvoted me and voted SJ. Is there something there I'm not getting? Also, it'd be nice if you could elaborate on what you didn't like about my post.

Would you like me to explain why I didn't like the answers? On the second one, could you point out posts where you thought CA was likely to be cop? Because I find that second answer to be more of a cop-out since we know that CA was a cop. As for the first one, its like your saying "oh I didn't want to look scummy, so I had to act confident." I just don't like that, it's like your trying to look like a town player.

As for the second part, the point was just about entirely to look townish. Good intentions don't mean anything if you get lynched for them. As for the part about CA being cop, read the post reproduced below (bolding added for emphasis):

Scum DJ could be trying to out a hypothetical cop by getting them to cc your claim right before he gets lynched. And if no cc happens, you will move into night. Then you could use wifom saying you didn't die because scum were thinking you'd be saved by a protection role, and use your now influential position to clear your buddies and lead lynches.

Soft claiming leaves a lot of options open for scum to work with, like others have pointed out. To clarify, you can easily full claim after you get a read later on about hwat role sare likely to be in the setup.

What good did your full claim do? None, because I'm fairly certain your scum

, and lies hurt town.

The bolded part is a dead giveaway, but if that isn't enough, read the first paragraph of this. He's practically screaming that he has inside knowledge that DJ isn't cop. Also, it made sense from a psychological point of view given his previous two posts. Working from the assumption there was a cop (since there is in most games), it

had

to be CA.

I'll look at the back and forth between SJ and BB more closely tomorrow....err, today (it's 12:13AM where I am).

[Looker]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

You'd rather wait around and claim instead of defending yourself? Make sure you have a good fakeclaim ready. Also, what EKT said.

@Looker
Let's say for sake of argument that SJ were to die and flip town. Who would you then suspect as scum?

Hey, guy, don't ruin the surprise!

[Kreriov]

Its Monday. I hate Mondays.

Vote Count

BigBear (3) - Sanjay havingfitz Furry
eleven knives in a throat (1) - Knight of Cydonia

Knight of Cydonia (3)

- eleven knives in a throat archaebob DeathRowKitty
Sanjay (2) - BigBear looker

Not Voting: semioldguy

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline: Friday 11 Dec @ 11pm EST

[archaebob]

@ Sanjay -

What do you think about my theory regarding good environments?

What do you think of KoC?

[Sanjay]

I think if you don't have any strong scum reads lynching to get a good environment is a good play. But passing up a strong scum read because they are a good active poster, while it might have helped you in Newbie 846, is not always the right play.

As for KoC, my day 1 reread made me less inclined to push a lynch his way, and while we disagree on our reads on DRK, I can see where he is coming from with it. General town opinion (that DRK is likely scum, that Knives is obv scum and should be lynched) has gone against KoC and that is the best reasoning I can come up with for his anti-town reaction. WIFOM thought it may be, what scum responds to accusations of being unhelpful with "Oh yeah, well screw you town, I'm going home"? Frustrated town makes more sense to me.

If KoC continues to be unhelpful AND I had to jump on a KoC wagon to save myself, I might vote KoC, but there is a handful of players I'd rather see lynched (BigBear, ElevenKnives, you, Looker) and that really is a pretty big handful.

[semioldguy]

When would you say you started to suspect me, semioldguy?

Early on in my read I was thinking to myself what exactly you had contributed. When I looked back, it looked to me as though you had contributed very little despite your large amount of posting. You don;t really bring much original content and most of what you do is ask questions with little to no follow-up as to reads on the answers (to be fair, a good portion of your questions didn't get answers due to flakiness this game so far). I see this behavior as scummy because it gives off the appearance of being helpful (asking questions) without really being all that helpful yourself.

Vote: Sanjay

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

Without going into unnecessary detail, what do you read on either of our predecessors? A single line or two summary would be more than enough.

[Sanjay]

I'd be happy to respond to specific questions you had a problem with, but in general, most of my questions did not result in strong reads so I wasn't inclined to strong follow-up.

[semioldguy]

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch. I think that this game is extremely convoluted right now, and we're going to be better off in the long run cleaning up the town than trying to hit scummy players who are active posters. I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

This makes little sense to me. Why evaluate a lynch candidate based on whether or not they are a costly mislynch? We should just lynch the players we think most likely to be scum because they are most likely to be scum. Worrying about whether or not they are a costly mislynch is potentially very hurtful to the town. Lynching scummy players is not bad.

Also what is this nonsense about cleaning up the town instead of lynching active scummy players? Is this seriously your advice?

If we narrow this game down to a smaller number of legitimately active players, it'll making catching up easier for us replacements, and give the town the focus it needs to actually scum-hunt in a meaningful way.

This will not have any effect on my ability to more easily catch up. Nor does it make any sense. How does more activity in the future help in catching up with the past? Nothing about what has already been contributed to this game is going to change, it never gets easier to catch up because nothing is going away, only more being added.

-less posters: narrows down the amount of players that the town have to go read in iso before they can have an opinion. decreases the chore of playing, and increases the motivation to play well.

Bad advice. Shouldn't disregard dead players and stances. Much is based on context. ISO reads are a bad way to get a feel for the game.

Lynching Sanjay, regardless of his flip, will contribute to an environment that favors scum, and not one that favors town.

Can you explain how lynching a player that flips scum can be helpful to scum and not favorable to town?

I think a policy lynch of the most useless player is justified.

Policy lynches are horrible and are not pro-town.

I iso'd KoC and I didn't see him once voice suspicions of EC (AB's predecessor) or AB. Very much an OMGUS reaction. It's even worse considering it was against an easy target and just looks like he was trying to divert attention away from the lackluster post after AB attacked him for it.

Does someone have to place suspicion on a player in order to suspect the replacement when he comes in? I wasn't suspicious of EtheralCookie, but I am now of archaebob.

[Sanjay]

semioldguy, do you want to respond to anything I've said in my defense?