Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[semioldguy]

What needs responding?

[semioldguy]

EBWOP:
Please just use post numbers. Don't quote it, I can look it up and will quote it if I need my response to make sense.

[Sanjay]

Post 1178, Post 1179 and, most recently, 1272

Are you voting for me in spite of my explanation of my behavior? Because of it? Should I end everything with a question mark from now on to better get you to respond to it?

[Sanjay]

semioldguy, I was kind of assuming you were holding off your vote previously because you wanted to look at other people first. Was that assumption incorrect?

[Looker]

I think if you don't have any strong scum reads lynching to get a good environment is a good play. But passing up a strong scum read because they are a good active poster, while it might have helped you in Newbie 846, is not always the right play.

As for KoC, my day 1 reread made me less inclined to push a lynch his way, and while we disagree on our reads on DRK, I can see where he is coming from with it. General town opinion (that DRK is likely scum, that Knives is obv scum and should be lynched) has gone against KoC and that is the best reasoning I can come up with for his anti-town reaction. WIFOM thought it may be, what scum responds to accusations of being unhelpful with "Oh yeah, well screw you town, I'm going home"? Frustrated town makes more sense to me.

If KoC continues to be unhelpful AND I had to jump on a KoC wagon to save myself, I might vote KoC, but there is a handful of players I'd rather see lynched (BigBear, ElevenKnives, you, Looker) and that really is a pretty big handful.

I see I've been added to your hitlist, Sanjay. I'm honored.

When would you say you started to suspect me, semioldguy?

Early on in my read I was thinking to myself what exactly you had contributed. When I looked back, it looked to me as though you had contributed very little despite your large amount of posting. You don;t really bring much original content and most of what you do is ask questions with little to no follow-up as to reads on the answers (to be fair, a good portion of your questions didn't get answers due to flakiness this game so far). I see this behavior as scummy because it gives off the appearance of being helpful (asking questions) without really being all that helpful yourself.

Vote: Sanjay

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

Without going into unnecessary detail, what do you read on either of our predecessors? A single line or two summary would be more than enough.

Hey, new best friend!

EBWOP:
Please just use post numbers. Don't quote it, I can look it up and will quote it if I need my response to make sense.

Does it make it easier for you when people don't quote stuff, because I notice that I quote alot.

semioldguy, I was kind of assuming you were holding off your vote previously because you wanted to look at other people first. Was that assumption incorrect?

Translation: "I thought you were going to vote someone else." ("But, since you're not, I'm gonna do my best to make sure you don't live to see tomorrow, bub.")

[Looker]

Current Suspicions

DJ

, Sanjay, & Cydonia/Eleven*

*I'm currently leaning Cydonia with this one as opposed to KoC.

[Looker]

EBWOP: as opposed to Eleven

[Sanjay]

Looker, the reason I added you to the list is you are basically unreadable. If I can't lynch a scummy read, I'd rather lynch someone I can't read than someone I feel like I can.

[Looker]

Unreadable? I swear, I'll never understand what that even means. You'd be comfortable lynching me simply because you don't know what I'm thinking? Take a look inside my brain, Sanjay, I'll tell you what I'm thinking:

Sanjay's awesome...Sanjay's awesome...Sanjay's scum, but Sanjay's awesome...

There. Satisfied? Now what kind of read (other than delusional) do you have on me?

[semioldguy]

@Sanjay
Most of that, although being an explanation for your actions, did not alleviate my concerns. So you could say that I am voting for you in spite of your explanations rather than because of them. Question marks help. I will generally respond to things directed at me that have question marks at the end of them.

Also your assumption was correct, I was holding off my vote because I wanted to look at other people as well as let my completed read have more than an hour or two to settle.

@Looker
No. I requested he not quote them because it was something he had already posted in the thread and didn't want unnecessary clutter. Quoting is generally fine.

[Sanjay]

So, looking at other people...

How did that go?

[Sanjay]

(Looker, I'll respond to your post in a sec, I just wanted to do that little conversational tone post with semioldguy just now and tacking on a read of you to the end of that would have ruined it)

[semioldguy]

BigBear was my second suspect, and remains a top suspect behind you. I would prefer his lynch over Knight of Cydonia's lynch at this point in time. More recently archaebob has raised significantly in suspicion. Furry seems less scummy, but I will keep my eye on him.

[Looker]

No, you're fine, I'm enjoying this. I have to get back to work anyway. Ciao.

[Sanjay]

Here is my read on you, Looker:

In the other games I've seen you in, you've played so zany and wacky and so clearly didn't give a damn that you were pretty obviously town. Newbie 837 (in which you were hilarious) is a good example. I don't really see that this game. This is not a scumtell by any means. I can definitely see how, as town, you could be playing the way you do. You do seem to get mislynched a lot.

So in that regard, I have a null read on you.

Day one, you were basically following a formula that nobody but you understood, that pretty much allowed you to vote for anyone you wanted without understandable justification. Is that a scumtell? For you, no, because I find your play believable as town. However, it leaves me uneasy, because if you are scum, it is very good for you. Day two, similarly, I feel like you have been ignoring a pretty good case on BigBear based on your formula, and if you are scum, that's pretty nice.

Playing in a way that would benefit scum is not actually a scumtell if I can see it coming from you as town. Which I can. But it still makes me pretty uneasy. So in that regard, I have a null read on you too.

There is one thing that is a little scummy but it has more to do with something DJ posted than something you posted. When you voted for him, he asked you to unvote with little or no explanation. You specifically. That's a little strange, just because you were acting confident in his scumminess, so why even ask?

That said, it is pretty clear that DJ was intent on going down pretty hard on the town and just WIFOM everything to hell since he was getting lynched anyway. So I'm really not very inclined to act on this. Again, null tell.

That's a little bit on why I'm having a tough time reading you.

[Looker]

Here is my read on you, Looker:

In the other games I've seen you in, you've played so zany and wacky and so clearly didn't give a damn that you were pretty obviously town. Newbie 837 (in which you were hilarious) is a good example. I don't really see that this game. This is not a scumtell by any means. I can definitely see how, as town, you could be playing the way you do. You do seem to get mislynched a lot.

So in that regard, I have a null read on you.

Day one, you were basically following a formula that nobody but you understood, that pretty much allowed you to vote for anyone you wanted without understandable justification. Is that a scumtell? For you, no, because I find your play believable as town. However, it leaves me uneasy, because if you are scum, it is very good for you. Day two, similarly, I feel like you have been ignoring a pretty good case on BigBear based on your formula, and if you are scum, that's pretty nice.

Playing in a way that would benefit scum is not actually a scumtell if I can see it coming from you as town. Which I can. But it still makes me pretty uneasy. So in that regard, I have a null read on you too.

There is one thing that is a little scummy but it has more to do with something DJ posted than something you posted. When you voted for him, he asked you to unvote with little or no explanation. You specifically. That's a little strange, just because you were acting confident in his scumminess, so why even ask?

That said, it is pretty clear that DJ was intent on going down pretty hard on the town and just WIFOM everything to hell since he was getting lynched anyway. So I'm really not very inclined to act on this. Again, null tell.

That's a little bit on why I'm having a tough time reading you.

This is actually

quite

impressive, regardless of alignment, so much so that I'm contemplating keeping you around despite the fact that you are so obviously a murderous mafioso. What's a girl to do...?

However, like I've said before and will now say again, hopefully for the final time.

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

You'd rather wait around and claim instead of defending yourself? Make sure you have a good fakeclaim ready. Also, what EKT said.

@Looker
Let's say for sake of argument that SJ were to die and flip town. Who would you then suspect as scum?

Hey, guy, don't ruin the surprise!

This means YOU!

- If we can get this thing done with the least amount of mislynches possible, which at the most I'm thinking is 1, then we're doing pretty good for ourselves. And I hope you understand that I cannot simply take your word for it in regards to your alignment.
- On a totally different note, I also hope you know that it's because of cool people like you that I try to change up my playstyle so as not to be a total asshole and weigh down the town. I'm

trying

to work something out here, you just have to give me a little more time. I have faith in you so have a little faith in me,

Scummy McScumbag

.

[Looker]

O and Newbie 837...well, that was a learning experience...

[DeathRowKitty]

I iso'd KoC and I didn't see him once voice suspicions of EC (AB's predecessor) or AB. Very much an OMGUS reaction. It's even worse considering it was against an easy target and just looks like he was trying to divert attention away from the lackluster post after AB attacked him for it.

Does someone have to place suspicion on a player in order to suspect the replacement when he comes in? I wasn't suspicious of EtheralCookie, but I am now of archaebob.

You kind of missed my point here. It's perfectly fine to be suspicious of someone who replaces in without having been suspicious of the person who was replaced, but read KoC's post. He had never mentioned suspicion of AB or the player AB replaced. Then, when AB attacked one of KoC's posts, KoC came back at AB by pointing out something from AB's post (that admittedly looks bad) and calling him scum for it. Not just scummy; scum.

As for KoC, my day 1 reread made me less inclined to push a lynch his way, and while we disagree on our reads on DRK, I can see where he is coming from with it. General town opinion (that DRK is likely scum, that Knives is obv scum and should be lynched) has gone against KoC and that is the best reasoning I can come up with for his anti-town reaction. WIFOM thought it may be, what scum responds to accusations of being unhelpful with "Oh yeah, well screw you town, I'm going home"? Frustrated town makes more sense to me.

Going against popular opinion shouldn't make one resort to being anti-town. Here's the sequence of events that took place:

1. KoC brought up the fact that I mentioned jesters first in response to something BB said.
2. BB voted me for it.
3. KoC immediately voted me for it too.
4. (He stopped posting for a while), then unvotes because "things have been made clearer to [him]"
5. He votes me again near the start of Day 2.

Yes, he took a stance against what a lot of the game did, but how exactly does that explain his behavior?

Also, scum may just resort to a screw you attitude to try to avoid lynch

---

I read the SJ-BB argument. I got an overall townie feel from BB's defense.

[Looker]

@DRK: Do your town reads of BB corroborate with my scum reads of Sanjay?
(Note: I've probably asked this a million times, it's just that I don't know what else to say, we're pretty much gridlocked here for the rest of the week...)

[DeathRowKitty]

It was a town read of BB's defense, not necessarily of BB. I'll probably re-read him to see what I think now.

As for Sanjay, my opinions of him are similar to Furry's. I have a fairly strong gut town read on him. Sorry.

[Sanjay]

The difference between DJ's screw you attitude and KoC's is timing. DJ's came after his lynch was probably coming through and it didn't matter. KoC's came at a time when everyone was like "oh, there's a deadline coming up, I wonder who we should lynch". Seems like a ridiculously bad time for mafia to do that. I guess it could be a WIFOMy thing, but it seems pretty darn risky, especially with a day one scum lynch.

Basically this post is why I'm okay about KoC's jester vote.

Here's what I don't like about BigBear's defense:

*I think I have a good case against him and it seems like he is acting like I don't.
*Also, he brought up my scumminess as if it had anything to do with my case against him here.

[BigBear]

BigBear was my second suspect, and remains a top suspect behind you. I would prefer his lynch over Knight of Cydonia's lynch at this point in time. More recently archaebob has raised significantly in suspicion. Furry seems less scummy, but I will keep my eye on him.

Do you find the little spat between Sanjay and I as Scum-Scum?

[Looker]

It was a town read of BB's defense, not necessarily of BB. I'll probably re-read him to see what I think now.

As for Sanjay, my opinions of him are similar to Furry's. I have a fairly strong gut town read on him. Sorry.

Ha, there's no reason to apologize. This whole thing that we're doing here is the scumhunting process, believe it or not.

[Sanjay]

BigBear, do you think the day 1 case itself against you is scummy, or do you just consider it scummy given the context?

[BigBear]

BigBear, do you think the day 1 case itself against you is scummy, or do you just consider it scummy given the context?

Both.
-The fact that it was (IMO) a delayed post, in that... well... you should see in the next post.
- And that it felt like you were trying to derail DJ's wagon by providing an alternate lynch after DJ "claimed."