Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Hoopla]

So far, my town reads are Moai and possibly Socrates, however I don't want him to be mayor, mostly because he is pushing it himself and I still want to lynch the mayor.

I have a scum gut feeling about nhammen, SC and possibly charter - I think this is where I'm going to vote, as I disagree with lynching Monkey today. I'll try and explain my gut as I know I'll be berated for not doing so, otherwise.

nhammen's play feels fishy in regards to his play around Monkey - it's like he was tiptoeing around with his meta searches, finding something to incriminate him.

SC is the hardest to explain, but the general vibe I get from his posts is confidence and a willingness to spread suspicion on easy targets - his case on DDD was overreaching, and I dislike how he is setting me up without giving me much chance to reason. I don't think SC would normally be so hasty.

Charter tunnels too much and deserves to die - his recent line of questioning is useless and boring, and isn't doing a good job of creating links, which I can see as its only benefit. But this linking only becomes valid once we have confirmed alignments - and because these questions barely scrape beyond the surface they won't be revisited once alignments do flip.

[Hoopla]

My vote isn't very strong, but it's who I'd like to lynch today;

Vote: charter

[MichelSableheart]

Tenth support count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (1)

Hoopla

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (0)

Hoopla (1)

SerialClergyman

* Socrates (6)

Socrates, charter, Col.Cathart, kyle99, Moai Interceptor Cannons, MonkeyMan576

MonkeyMan576 (1)

Debonair Danny DiPietro

xRECKONERx (0)

nhammen (2)

nhammen, xRECKONERx

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (0)

Not supporting anyone (1)

SaintKerrigan

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to elect someone as mayor.

an * marks who would become mayor if the day ended right now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tenth vote count of day 1:

charter (1)

Hoopla

kyle99 (2)

xRECKONERx, Socrates

Moai Interceptor Cannons (1)

nhammen

Debonair Danny DiPietro (1)

MonkeyMan576

SerialClergyman (0)

Hoopla (2)

charter, SerialClergyman

Socrates (0)

MonkeyMan576 (3)

Col.Cathart, kyle99, SaintKerrigan

xRECKONERx (0)

nhammen (0)

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (2)

Debonair Danny DiPietro, Moai Interceptor Cannons

Not voting anyone (0)

With 13 votes available, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone. However, noone can be lynched before a mayor is elected.

[SerialClergyman]

After that post, I seriously just went out and bought a T-shirt that says 'Hoopla is scum' and they don't do refunds, which means I'm officially all here for this lynch.

Zero scumhunting and badly-formulated reads does not a town Hoopla make. I know that she knows towncharter=tunnel, we just played a game togehter where charter tunnelled like in most games charter plays. This doesn't mean he's town, but it does mean that suspecting charter for tunnelling is like suspecting water for being wet. His questions, while possibly shallow, are at least a sign of searching for alignment, something sadly lacking from all too many players.

She attacks nhammen for 'tiptowing around the monkey issue'. This suspicion is out of place, and if Hoopla is scum this is the most likely 'toss in a scum buddy to throw them off the trail' contribution. As far as I can tell, it's just not really true at all. Far from trying to incriminate monkey, nhammen had this result:

Thank you for providing this. Unfortunately after comparing your play here to both Mafia 91 and Mafia 97, I cannot tell the difference between twon Monkey and scum Monkey. It seems like this reaching with bad arguments and refusal to back down is part of his general meta. He does this both as scum and as town.

Cherrypicking for scumtells? I think not.

And finally me - I've been accused of going after easy targets. Well, there's plenty of easy targets in this game and I think I've done more than most of specifically not going after them. I'm not in favour of either a monkey or a kyle lynch, the two most obvious easy lynches. I attacked Hoopla who could be considered easy because she had low access, but I did give her a pass for a long time, and she is a formidable player. I attacked DDD who is also a strong player and certainly is not one likely to take suspicion lying down.

Aside from that, hoopla's been given plenty of time and opportunity to both scumhunt and defend. I specifically encouraged it yesterday when I asked her what she thought of my back and forth with DDD and she gave a false answer rather than content. She's got as much time as she likes now to hunt or defend and I see little evidence of the first and poor attempts at the second.

And even if you weren't given an opportunity to defend yourself, I love trying to find scum in ways that they find hard to respond to - as anyone in Commie mafia knew, I put forward my theory of the game in such a way that there was no argument or explanation of actions required from my suspects, I just gave a group of three people and explained why I thought that 2/3 of them had to be scum. But this situation is different, and her charge of me being unreasonable for starting up a bandwagon on her is lousy.

But forgetting all the individual points - look at that as a reaction! I laid off, gave her a chance to try to hunt or do something worthwhile and she instead gives us her vague, weak reads, 2/3 of which are the sole members of the wagon on her at the moment. No questions, no fire, no town motivation.

Hoopla is scum, get her lynched.

[Hoopla]

Haha, I'm sorry I'm not finding it as easy as you to delude myself into believing my reads are better than random on Day 1. My reads aren't badly formulated, they're just weak, and I acknowledge that.

You seem hung up that I'm not firey (wtf, seriously?), that has nothing to do with my town game or my ability to scumhunt. I've NEVER been able to catch scum on day one, and the burden of proficiency you have me under is ridiculous. Why are you expecting so much more from my reads compared to everyone else? You're holding me to unfair standards.

[Hoopla]

I have a general theory question for anyone that wants to answer. What goes into your decision making when choosing your Day 1 lynch? Is it purely whoever you assess to be most scummy?

[charter]

After that post, I seriously just went out and bought a T-shirt that says 'Hoopla is scum' and they don't do refunds, which means I'm officially all here for this lynch.

Word.

[nhammen]

A few items:

MIC has convinced me he isn't scummy. Or maybe I'm succumbing to one of those logica fallacies... We'll find out later.

unvote

Hoopla - I have only played one game with her, and her play in that game does not match her play here. This game is ongoing, so I can't discuss further. It does, however, cause me to lean a little bit in the way of her being scum. However, this could all be due to the fact that she replaced in the other, so had more information

Reck - I have already stated that I find his buddying scummy. As well as vote hopping (he's already voted 4 different players). However, multiple people have tried to convince me that the second is not a scumtell.

I just don't see where charter is going with this line of questioning. It's nit-picky and obnoxious.

Answer anyways!

vote Reck

It seems like I don't have any real scum reads on any players. However, I have 4 players that I have town reads on. Adding myself gives almost half the players as town. Looks like the strategy for today is Process of Elimination.

Also, I REALLY have a problem with Hoopla's strategy. The day 1 lynch will most likely either be scum, or a player that has reads the rest of the town does not trust. Is this who we want to entrust the mayoral choice to? I think not.

I am going to support Socrates, except I'm not to sure about the rules of this game, and it would be support-hammer. Anybody have any problems with me doing this?

[nhammen]

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, I will support a Hoopla lynch.

[charter]

Vote hopping if you've got reasons and follow up on them isn't a scumtell. If you just constantly pull 'I agree with soandso, vote' and barely mention that person again that's really scummy (which is nearly what Reckoner is doing and what Monkeyman is doing).

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Hoopla: So, if you are still advocating the "lynch the mayor" strategy, why aren't you supporting Charter?

[nhammen]

Vote hopping if you've got reasons and follow up on them isn't a scumtell. If you just constantly pull 'I agree with soandso, vote' and barely mention that person again that's really scummy (which is nearly what Reckoner is doing and what Monkeyman is doing).

Also, Reck was extremely conservative with his votes in Day Night. That does not match his play here at all.

[xRECKONERx]

Yes, let's base my meta off of one game.

[SerialClergyman]

You're holding me to unfair standards.

Well, two things. Firstly - I do hold everyone in the game to different standards. Because you're different players. If you performed at an empking level for the first day, I'd be suspicious, whereas if empking did, I wouldn't be. Such is life. Secondly, I never asked you to be successful, just to try. When I say fire, I mean desire to catch scum, and I don't see any.

nhammen's I agree vote someone else via process of elimination is noteworthy. If you could be on a Hoopla wagon but have a hot off the presses scum read, that's one thing. But if you could vote a hoopla wagon and only have weak scum reads and are operating by process of elimination - why not get on the hoopla wagon?

[nhammen]

Because I wanted to see how Reck would react. His reaction didn't really change anything. I was hoping it would. Oh well.

And now that that's done, Hoopla seems to be getting the most votes from my not town-read choices, so...

unvote
vote: Hoopla

[Col.Cathart]

Also, I REALLY have a problem with Hoopla's strategy. The day 1 lynch will most likely either be scum, or a player that has reads the rest of the town does not trust. Is this who we want to entrust the mayoral choice to? I think not.

Amen, brother. I agree with this in 100%

Some thoughts about players:



Charter - Well, I met town Charter, and scum Charter as well. Although both are similar, this one looks more like a town Charter. Hoopla's latest vote is even more confusing, as she should know this already.

DDD - Eh... I don't know, really. I cannot get any good read on him. Neutral for now.

Hoopla - I'm really confused. She's behaving completely different, than I thought. Her attack on Charter is ridiculous, and so is 'I never catched scum on D1, and my reads on D1 are awful, so why even try?' line of thinking. Not my preferable wagon, but if it'll happen, I'll have no problems with joining it.

Kyle - Follows too much, does almost nothing, his opinions seems kinda... Forced? I don't know how to name it. Anyway, possible scum. Wagon on him wouldn't be that bad.

MIC - Tough stuff... This looks like and '100x less serious Cruciare's alt (and normal Cruciare has a quite 'original' approach anyway...), so taking away all the weird stuff, I have a similar view as on Pro-town Cruciare from my previous game with him.

Monkey Man - Good Lord! I'm extremely surprised anyone believes his claim at all. He makes a slip after slip, and follows the votes to create very lame wagons (vide --> vote on DDD). Scum, scum, scum. Everyone who believes his claim should reconsider. Seriously.

Nhammen - His second to last post definitely puts him in my 'pro-town' list for now.

Kerrigan - as with DDD - I can't get a proper read on him.

Reckoner - Nothing good from him + buddying = scum.

Serial Clergyman - This is my 3rd game with him, I know his alignment from Commie mafia, but I still cannot really decipher his behavior patterns. Looks town though...

Socrates - The most pro-town guy around. Simple as that.

Bottom Line:

Monkey and Reck - obv scum.

Kyle and Hoopla - prob scum

DDD, Kerrigan - I have no friggin idea.

Town - the rest.

I still have some last shreds of hope, that people will go back to voting Monkey, but if that won't happen, I'll have to probably change my vote anyway to some of my other suspects.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Charter tunnels too much and deserves to die - his recent line of questioning is useless and boring, and isn't doing a good job of creating links, which I can see as its only benefit. But this linking only becomes valid once we have confirmed alignments - and because these questions barely scrape beyond the surface they won't be revisited once alignments do flip.

I'll be honest I don't understand this comment coming from Hoopla at all. It really gives me pause because parts of it are so blatantly incorrect. She somehow turns charter's tunneling into a scumtell when she's seen him do that as town at least once, probably more considering how active she is. All in all, does not compute.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Hoopla's 375 was underwhelming (i.e. sucks). Now willing to pursue Hoopla wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla

.

@Monkey, what do you think of Hoopla?
@Kerrigan, what do you think of everything?

[kyle99]

So does this mean that you guys still don't want to lynch monkey? Because he seems the most scummy right now. For anyone not voting money, is it because you believed his Cop claim, or because you don't think he's scummy for other reasons.

[SaintKerrigan]

I think Monkey is still scummy, and cop claim or no I wouldn't mind lynching him today. However, I do think the idea to save him for tomorrow (as it were) makes sense, but I'm going to need another person that I think is scummy enough to vote for. Right now, Hoopla is beginning to fill that position, but I'm going to need to review her posts more before I come to a voting conclusion. I do have a question to her that I would like answered, though.

I'm not sure about everyone else yet, my brain is killing me right now...

[Hoopla]

You're holding me to unfair standards.

Well, two things. Firstly - I do hold everyone in the game to different standards. Because you're different players. If you performed at an empking level for the first day, I'd be suspicious, whereas if empking did, I wouldn't be. Such is life. Secondly, I never asked you to be successful, just to try. When I say fire, I mean desire to catch scum, and I don't see any.

You are! I seriously think you're overvaluing my ability as town. I have no idea which games you're basing my town meta on.

For what it's worth, I don't think my gut is worthless - but I think I am the only sane one with a realistic outlook on what to expect from day 1. I have shared my opinion and you know where I stand on most issues, but I

absolutely

refuse to pretend my opinions are worth anything substancial on Day 1. It may look like a weak excuse, but it's the only truthful way I can accurately summarise how I feel.

I don't understand where the aggressive = Hooplatown thing surfaced from, but I'd suggest that attribute is mostly based on how I feel, and how active the rest of the town is.

[Hoopla]

@ Hoopla: So, if you are still advocating the "lynch the mayor" strategy, why aren't you supporting Charter?

I don't think anyone likes it. And if they did, they definitely don't now. I feel gross for morphing myself into an easy day 1 lynch, and I don't know how to fix it.

[kyle99]

I'm not sure about everyone else yet, my brain is killing me right now...

Yeah, mine too, that's the problem. You could make a case against almost anyone for being scum right now.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not sure about everyone else yet, my brain is killing me right now...

Yeah, mine too, that's the problem. You could make a case against almost anyone for being scum right now.

Cool content, bro

[MonkeyMan576]

Nothing like the old "It's day 1, I don't have to scum hunt, argument". I still like a DDD lynch.