Open 189~Trouble@Warren State Mental Hosp (Over)

[HowardRoark]

/confirm

Is this new guy allowed to play with this clique?

[HowardRoark]

*checks your join date*
Newb Card, AtE, IGMEOY, WIFOM WIFOM, over--

Okay, you got me. GG all. Can I join the clique now?

[HowardRoark]

vote populartajo

The only one in this player list that I've played with before. Therefore, he must die so that I can have more time to get to know the others.

[HowardRoark]

What's with the Xdaamno hate? Or Xdaamno quick-lynch love? (pick your own perspective)

[HowardRoark]

Xdaamno's post 60, post 77 & post 78.

unvote
vote Xdaamno

The thing is that I cant tell wether some people are being serious or not. Dodge and Vi seem serious while cayke and dizzy are prob just joking around. Correct me if im wrong.

Trying to derail the wagon?

I am not sure how much is serious and how much isn’t.

(See comment to populartajo above)

I don't think many people could get confident reads by page 4.

If you play with another player often enough, it sometimes becomes that easy,

[HowardRoark]

I have no idea if Qooq and Vi have played any games together. I've never played with JDodge, yet I see him as town right now. So where does that put us?

[HowardRoark]

I’m reading Vi town right now though

Okay, an initial town read with no real commital. No problem, IMHO.

I don't think many people could get confident reads by page 4.

You add the word "confident" thus modifying the topic.

If you play with another player often enough, it sometimes becomes that easy

My comment on confident page 4 reads.

And how often have Qoog and Vi played together would you say?

A fair question in-and-of itself.

I have no idea if Qooq and Vi have played any games together. I've never played with JDodge, yet I see him as town right now. So where does that put us?

My assertion that Qooq's read does not have to necessarily come from past experience.

Also, if you have no idea how many games they have played together, then how can you make a value judgement that it'd be easy for her to have a read on Vi based on past experience?

I didn't say Qooq's read on Vi was based on past experience. My post 98 point was quite the opposite. Two separate points: page four

confident

reads and page four

initial

reads.

[HowardRoark]

If by "call someone town" you mean "extremely high probability", then I agree (even if there is prior game experience). I have no problem with having town reads on players (with or without prior experience) this early in a game. I equate it to early scum reads: not definite, but possible and develop-able.

Let's assume I state a town read ("early" or otherwise) on a player who is actually scum. Do you think that will possibly lower that player's guard and increase the possibility of a slip? (Theory -- not necessary here, but an interesting discussion to have at some point methinks.)

[HowardRoark]

@Dizzy-who are Xdaamno's scumbuddies?

This is what we are working on at the moment. But... slip noted.

?

@Cat: Thoughts on . . . anything?!?!?

[HowardRoark]

@DizzyIzzyB13: What's the slip?

[HowardRoark]

why did you feel the need to answer for me HowardRoark?

I wasn't answering for you. I was addressing a comment that I disagreed with.

Xdaamno's 60: Playing as town does not require "running through several layers of town thought."
Xdaamno's 77: Meta defenses are weak.
Xdaamno's 78: I guess this one could go either way. I was reading this with the taste of the others still in my mouth.
ADD post 151: Waffling. How is a post obvtown, but not that strongly?

Concerning the "wagon derailing" question: Questioning the intentions of the voters on it weakens it. It was rhetorical.

My JDodge town read is based on the fact that I have seen nothing to this point that seems anti-town motivated.

[HowardRoark]

I have no idea if Qooq and Vi have played any games together. I've never played with JDodge, yet I see him as town right now. So where does that put us?

FLATTERY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE

In another note, why?

Making a point and what you noted in your 264.

Well, you're scum, so I think you have an unfair advantage at the town reads game.

Really? Why's that? I don't think many people could get confident reads by page 4.

...

Greatly disliking Baltar's reaction and I am disappointed in you all for not noticing this immediate policy 180.

I am shamed.

[HowardRoark]

1-confirm, immediately plays noob card
2-jokes about being called on noob card playing
3-random vote
4-questions the xdaamno wagon, seemingly not understanding it
5-votes xdaamno, accuses Qoog and tajo of trying to derail wagon, says a player could have town reads if they play together enough
6-answers my question, continues to have a theory debate over town reads with me
7-continues theory debate
8-still going
9-asks cat for "thoughts on anyone"
10-@Dizzy-what's the slip?
11-explains why he finds certain xdaamno posts scummy, which is better, but i'm not seeing scum motivation in a great deal of what he is saying.
Also says JD town read is because he hasn't done anything "anti-town"yet
{snipped quote}
12-apparently agrees with some contradiction JD is claiming to have pointed out (still waiting for explanation here)

1 & 2: Not noob card play, but (apparently failed) attempts at humor.
3: OH NO!
4: Yup, that's what I did.
5: Ateempting to develop reads.
6-8: So, am I scum for the debate? Where does that put you?
9: I had nothing to work with concerning Cat.
10: I still don't see it, but apparently it will be revealed when the timing is right.
11: So we agree to disagree on Xdaamno. Yup, I've seen nothing from JDodge indicating scum.
12: I hope that you understand it now . . . even if you don't like it.

[HowardRoark]

Ahhhh . . . got it.

[HowardRoark]

I would appreciate some explanation for the votes on me.

Still like my Xdaamno vote.

[HowardRoark]

Thanks, Vi.

Cat, you may have missed this, populartajo is now voting me.

[HowardRoark]

@populartajo: I've already stated who and why. You've stated who, but have blatantly ignored the question of why.

[HowardRoark]

So, we've got . . .

VP Baltar's vote (97) for a statement I've explained and he was unable to continue using as an attack, and (277) a PBPA concluding that I've been "coasting outside of the fray."

populartajo's vote (296) with no reasoning, but an taste of FoS scum partner vote another: "Decent votes: HowardRoak, Baltar is improving but still bothers me some." His vote was on VP Baltar.

Vi's vote (300) because "it is someone scummy and there's a larger wagon over thisaway." Add (318) for having done nothing seemingly pro-town while offering several others who are comparable. (IMHO a list which leaves out some even poorer performers such as Cat and Otto Ulberiecht / Porochaz.)

Xdaamno's vote (333) with no reasoning other than being able to analyze my flip. (My wagon is increasing, and his is decreasing.)


The difficult question: Which of these votes is the scummiest? The answer: Difficult to determine. Best guess would be Xdaamno (maybe biased on that based on my existing suspicion) and populartajo.

[HowardRoark]

I still feel strongest that Xdaamno is scum. (*sniped*) @Xdaamno: I thought you were talking about my flip. Explain.

I've asked for reasoning for the votes on me, yet have received little clarification. There's been a lot of inactivity which inhibits developing reads.

Why do you believe Cat to be town? Your only interaction is

Also, the collision of veterans and newer people makes this game slightly more difficult.

I'm curious. Could you list the vets vs. the newer people, quickly? (Hint: Otto U. is an alt)

Is your Porochaz read based solely on the saberwolf claim?

I did forget about Qooq.

[HowardRoark]

@Vi: Thanks for the clarification. In looking at the Xdaamno wagon, you exclude examination of crywolf20084 with, "Cayke is etc." What does that mean?

@Xdaamno: Why are you following (not pushing) the wagon on me instead of pushing for my lynch or someone else?


Happy holiday greeting to all.

[HowardRoark]

I think I'm following this wagon more than pushing it.

That's why I asked. It looks to me more like hoping onto a popular wagon (that isn't yours).

[HowardRoark]

@Xdaamno: My argument was not "You joined this wagon after other players, so you're scum!/the wagon is invalid!" My point was that your statements contradicted. Pushing -> Following -> Pushing.

[HowardRoark]

Yup, I'm still happy with my Xdaamno vote. There are a couple others that I am considering. Preemptive answer: populartajo and Hyl/replacement.

[HowardRoark]

What do you think about JDodge?

He's participating and I'm not seeing any red flags.

Why Hyl/replacement?

His early comments on Vi and the Xdaamno wagon caught me as off.

[HowardRoark]

I knew I'd draw some reactions with that one. Nice jump, Cat.

[HowardRoark]

No offense taken, Xdaamno. I am sure that if I were posting with a sense of "desperation/exasperation" y'all would be saying that I was flailing scum. I don't understand the arrogance piece though.

I haven't been able to develop good reads on most of the players in this game. We've got lurkers and one-liners and flakers and holidays and vote hoppers. With a 2-10 setup and a half decent chance of having power roles, the odds are in our favor. My mislynch will not hurt us to any great extent. Swing away.

[HowardRoark]

Well . . . here I am.

[HowardRoark]

@hitogoroshi: Any other phrases that we should be avoiding? Seriously though . . .
There are others that I am looking into. Thus my considering to switch to populartajo or Hyl (now BloodCovenent). I don't feel strongly enough about either at this point to switch though.
Cat's a player that I don't have a read on. The comment was to point out how quickly and unreasoned the jump onto my wagon was. It reads like a scum hop.
I was excited to join a game with a group of experienced players. I was hoping to learn something from this game. Yeah, I have kind of a defeatist attitude right now. I haven't gotten many good reads. I'm not enjoying this one.

[HowardRoark]

If it comes down to deadline, I'll vote Cat.

[HowardRoark]

5 days away. why wait?

Because I like my Xdaamno vote, but am not willing to let the day end as a no majority therefore no lynch.

Where's Tajo?

See post 543. (Did that mean yesterday or D2? I assumed the latter.)

[HowardRoark]

I keep my wiki pretty up-to-date; meta lovers rejoice.

@BloodCovenent: Who do you see as Xdaamno's possible scum buddy?
@Porochaz: Who is your prime suspect today?
@Sotty7: *sniped* Why do you have a non-scum read on Xdaamno?
@Vi: How strong is your VP Baltar town read?
@DizzyIzzyB13: If VP Baltar were cleared, what would be your thoughts on Vi?
@crywolf20084: What do you think of BloodCovenent?
@Xdaamno: What do you think of Sotty7?
@VP Baltar: Who do you think would be my scum buddy?
@populartajo: If you were a dayvig, who would you shoot right now?

[HowardRoark]

I keep my wiki pretty up-to-date; meta lovers rejoice.

@BloodCovenent: Who do you see as Xdaamno's possible scum buddy?
@Porochaz: Who is your prime suspect today?
@Sotty7: *sniped* Why do you have a non-scum read on Xdaamno?
@Vi: How strong is your VP Baltar town read?
@DizzyIzzyB13: If VP Baltar were cleared, what would be your thoughts on Vi?
@crywolf20084: What do you think of BloodCovenent?
@Xdaamno: What do you think of Sotty7?
@VP Baltar: Who do you think would be my scum buddy?
@populartajo: If you were a dayvig, who would you shoot right now?


It's taken me several tries to submit this.

[HowardRoark]

@Vi: How much is that based on meta?

@Xdaamno: Please tell me how my questions are "a rather blatant attempt to . . . {snip} . . . misdirect the town"? (I get the "look town" piece.)

@VP Baltar: The point is connections and thought processes.

@crywolf20084: I look forward to the thoughts after the read.

[HowardRoark]

@Sotty7: I haven't seen a whole lot of hunting coming from Xdaamno.

@Xdaamno: So I am misdirecting the town to . . . where exactly?

@BloodCovenent: Why the vote change? Was it that one statement from your prime suspect?

@crywolf20084: How's that BloodCovenent read coming?

vote Xdaamno

@mod: Can we have a vote count please?

[HowardRoark]

Howard, what do you think of those two players? {Izzy and cayke}

DizzyIzzyB13: Neutral. She came in hard for the Xdaamno wagon and has since then focused on you.
crywolf20084: Slight scum. She pushed for the Xdaamno quick lynch for a while before actually casting a vote. There was the blowup concerning he-who-shall-not-be-named. The rest is not very helpful.

What do you make of BC's stance switch on you?

It has definitely pinged. He replaced in yesterday and jumped on the Cat wagon and today seems to be playing follow the leader.

[HowardRoark]

@Vi: Memory fail. He was the second vote; I thought he was later.

@BloodCovenent: So he breadcrumbed accurately in another game, but you find this one suspicious?

[HowardRoark]

Howard, why are you so inactive in this game when you have proven that you are capable of being an active player?

I am in a limited access situation right now. Hopefully I will be closing on my house next week, ending being a nomad couch crasher, thus increasing my availability.


@BloodCovenent: A 10:2 game, possible cops, possible doctors, no mafia abilities . . . and you'd bus your partner on D1 . . . in a slow game like this?
It looks like you were trying to cast some suspicion on Porochaz. He's certainly not auto cleared, I don't think that anyone is saying that. When is blindly lynching a claimed cop a good solution?

@SlySly: Look in the mirror.

[HowardRoark]

@SlySly: BloodCovenent made a comment about someone *ahem* suggesting lynching the claimed cop. You questioned who that was. Where your vote is is not a counter to my link.

Confirm Vote: Xdaamno

@Vi: I believe that Xdaamno is scum. For a second I'm not liking what I am seeing from SlySly (replaced populartajo whom I can never read). I'd like to see a response from BloodCovenent. Porochaz is on the short list as well. I think you know how I feel about full scum <--> town lists; so I'll pass.

(Site issues not helping with my limited access.)

[HowardRoark]

Apologies for unexpected LA. Closing on my house still pending . . . stupid mortgage broker.

I don't like posting scum <--> town lists because it gives scum a little bit more information about easier mislynches, not on-the-correct-trail, etc. (I figured you knew this because I said it in the Newbie game . . . guess you weren't paying as much attention as I thought.) VP Baltar, what exactly do you have against me not wanting to give this?

SlySly was attempting to cast a shadow on an unnamed someone for suggesting lynching Porochaz today. While I appreciate his attempt at building a case on Vi, there's not much to it. SlySly, based on Vi's on-and-off with me, did a Vi/HowardRoark scum team ever cross your mind?

I obviously disagree with VP Baltar on the Xdaamno read. VP Baltar . . . jury is still out on SlySly but you see his case on Vi as extremely contrived . . . what's keeping him from being a scummy read?

[HowardRoark]

@VP Baltar: Please explain to me how the scum <--> town lists are a Newbie philosophy and my understanding is incorrect. The other options are c) I really don't have many strong reads or d) I play the way I play . . . like it or lump it. I'm doing some training and in a Limited Access situation until I close on my new house. At this current pace, my situation is having very little affect on me being able to follow he game. I just don't have the opportunity for full re-reads.

I'm here for the duration, whether that means end of game or death or abandonment or other. I'm not down with the rewq455 lynch. I didn't have a scum read on DizzyIzzyB13 and this is at least the second time that I've seen rewq455 replace in just to flake.

[HowardRoark]

Thanks to Sotty7 for replacing in and for the win . . . it was all you!!

Having Vi in this game while modding a Newbie game I was playing was stressful. I was attempting to play differently without appearing to play differently. I'm glad that worked well enough that we could at least lynch a couple of townsfolk first.

VP Baltar . . . aaarrrrrrrg! Nice job.

Thanks for modding, tubby216. You kept the replacements coming and managed the game. This is truly a town biased setup, IMHO . . . but now you are on the road to moderating your more interesting theme game ideas.