Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[ODDin]

The Zzzz Vote count

ElectricBadger - Scien
Hewitt - ElectricBadger
ODDin - Hewitt, Farside22, Benmage

Not Voting: Nikanor, Maemuki, ODDin, SaintKerrigan.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

And there is a deadline in this game which is Sunday. You keep saying you will have to post less but knowing how this game is it should have been on your watch list with note put into your computer to go over when you have a chance to sit down and read.
Also before you took your "rest" period ben was making cases with walls of text.

Thursday is four days before Sunday. I did skim the game from time to time, but apparently I've missed the most important posts in here. I guess I should've set my priorities differently between the two game. My current conclusion is ONLY ONE GAME AT A TIME. But that's a different issue.

[farside22]

And there is a deadline in this game which is Sunday. You keep saying you will have to post less but knowing how this game is it should have been on your watch list with note put into your computer to go over when you have a chance to sit down and read.
Also before you took your "rest" period ben was making cases with walls of text.

Thursday is four days before Sunday. I did skim the game from time to time, but apparently I've missed the most important posts in here. I guess I should've set my priorities differently between the two game. My current conclusion is ONLY ONE GAME AT A TIME. But that's a different issue.

it is odd for you to disappear just as pressure is put towards you.

[ODDin]

Let me put it this way: if I did see the questions addressed at me, how stupid would I need to be to think ignoring them would help me in some way, no matter my alignment?

I agree that it was bad play on my part. I should've put more effort into the game and I should've paid better attention. True. But I wouldn't say it's scummy, since it's bad for me-scum as well. Actually, I think it'd hurt my scumteam, if I were on one, much more than it's hurting the town.

[farside22]

Oddin:
If you said WIFOM when did you say it was? I went looking for that comment along the way. And I would like to see it without the prod from Scien who said it was WIFOM.
Also your OMGUS vote comment was completely over the top with more WIFOM. Basically you have a case full of WIFOM you hold onto it and never call it WIFOM till Scien mentions it.
mmmm
mmmm
mmmm
yup I would say a bit of backtracking with someone who can't deny a case of WIFOM.
I never got an answer to my question about how many agressive scum you run across oddin that I became the person you felt could fall under this category. How many aggressive town players do you find?

[farside22]

Let me put it this way: if I did see the questions addressed at me, how stupid would I need to be to think ignoring them would help me in some way, no matter my alignment?

I agree that it was bad play on my part. I should've put more effort into the game and I should've paid better attention. True. But I wouldn't say it's scummy, since it's bad for me-scum as well. Actually, I think it'd hurt my scumteam, if I were on one, much more than it's hurting the town.

There was more pressure on EB then you at the time. Now that votes are your way instead it looks bad.

[ODDin]

I started the reread today, instead of tomorrow as planned, because benmage and hewitt were at my throat with it, and I thought that if they demand it so much, they might have a point. When I was rereading, I went all "oh shit I should've noticed that earlier...."

Regarding the WIFOM thing, I didn't actually use the term WIFOM, but, in my ISO:
In posts 4 and 5 I admit my argument was pretty weak.
Post 22 I essentially say that I know my argument is WIFOMy, though I don't use the exact term.

[ODDin]

Regarding aggressive scum, I haven't been in too many games, but from my current experience, I saw scum and town being aggressive about the same.
In Mini 814 there was one very aggressive scum (DNW) and another mildly aggressive scum (Starbuck). In Open 144 there was one pretty aggressive scum (AndyTony). In Newbie 845 I myself was relatively aggressive scum.

[hewitt]

Also intrigued by the sudden exodus of votes from me after a claim I didn't expect much from; my guess is mafia trying to find werewolves rather than focusing on an already-weak town.

That was a stupid statement.

That is indeed a good point against EB.

Hew took my post out of context: I was not accusing him just because he'd suspected townies, but because he was attacking Scien for it despite having done it himself. Hew hypocritically pushed voting for townies as a case and then tried to pass off my pointing out his double standard as scummy.[/quote]

What're you jabbering about here? I in no way attacked Scien for pushing a case on a townie I attacked him for pushing a crappy case. Those are two completely different things and there you go again attempting to manipulate and twist around other players' words.

[Scien]

I in no way attacked Scien for pushing a case on a townie I attacked him for pushing a crappy case. Those are two completely different things and there you go again attempting to manipulate and twist around other players' words.

You keep saying this... but really you picked me off the wagon of people, and attacked me for asking for a hammer right before deadline.

The whole crappy case thing came later, and I wasn't the only person pushing it. Are you looking at the others as well as me? Or am I the scapegoat for today?

[hewitt]

Oh yes I also attacked you for that I almost forgot about that. I am clearly looking at others way more than I'm looking at you right now Scien.

[ODDin]

You know, I went back and checked how the RBT wagon progressed, and it's really quite beautiful.

First of all, Scien was, in fact, one of the last people on the RBT wagon (that's what the whole exchange between farside and Scien revolves about). He wasn't the one who started it.

Looking back, there's a first FoS from farside (post 293), then a first vote from me (post 334), quickly followed by a second vote from farside (post 335). Then somewhat later there's a vote from EB (post 371), followed pretty quickly by Fuzzy (post 375). Then after some more discussion Scien voted in post 420, putting RBT at L-1.

Also, notice: post 421 is by hewitt, where he reread the game and presented an argument against Fuzzy. At this point RBT is at L-2, while Fuzzy is at L-4. Finally, Nik votes in post 432, putting RBT at L-1. hewitt is around, making posts 442, 443, 445. That's about 13 hours before the deadline. Finally Mae hammers.
And the funny part? Scien asked for a hammer AFTER it was done (simulpost probably, it was in the same minute). And then Wulfy "hammers", apparently not realising the deed was already done.

Bottom line: yeah, hewitt really didn't think RBT was in any danger. Sure. He was also not there at the deadline to warn us.

Oh, and this is just beautiful:

I think that the EB jump-on-jump-off argument is good too, but the fact remains, we are some fourteen hours off of a deadline and the only people that have a shot at getting lynched are myself and Rice. Take your pick.

(Rice is at L-1, by the way. Just for anybody that didn't notice.)

I HATE it when players turn impending deadlines into well it's either A or B take your pick. That is SO effing scummy.

(emphasis mine)

However, we later have:

I wasn't there so much near the end of the lynch period and if I had been I probably would've said something then instead of just pushing who I wanted to be lynched.

And just like I said earlier there was no justifiable reason to lynch RBT and I personally was really surprised by the lynch. Yesterday I was not expecting RBT to be lynched and I really wasn't on enough to fully comprehend the situation. That's all WIFOM and blah blah but I really didn't think RBT was in any danger.

I did not put much effort in stopping the RBT wagon. I honestly didn't think it was going to go anywhere and I did not foresee the lynch coming at all.

Seriously, is anyone buying this crap?

unvote, vote: hewitt

[ODDin]

EBWOP: In post 420 Scien put RBT at L-2, not L-1.

[ElectricBadger]

That was a stupid statement.

Solid defense. Explain?

I in no way attacked Scien for pushing a case on a townie

Oh?

I found Scien asking for someone to hammer at the end on RBT was incredibly scummy, especially looking in hindsight as he flipped town.

That seems clear to me.

[ODDin]

(See, that's the problem with mafia. I know I should go study, but once I start I just can't stop. )

[hewitt]

Um you've got a lot of facts inaccurate there ODDin. First of all I never stated that Scien started the wagon, I was making that comment talking about you and how unreliable of a source you are. If there were vote counts around the time RBT was going to be lynched I certainly didn't see much of them, I had no idea that RBT was at L-2 while Fuzzy was at L-4. Considering I don't find you, EB, and Scien to be reliable or credible town players I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to follow you. And this...

Oh, and this is just beautiful:

I think that the EB jump-on-jump-off argument is good too, but the fact remains, we are some fourteen hours off of a deadline and the only people that have a shot at getting lynched are myself and Rice. Take your pick.

(Rice is at L-1, by the way. Just for anybody that didn't notice.)

I HATE it when players turn impending deadlines into well it's either A or B take your pick. That is SO effing scummy.

(emphasis mine)

However, we later have:

I wasn't there so much near the end of the lynch period and if I had been I probably would've said something then instead of just pushing who I wanted to be lynched.

And just like I said earlier there was no justifiable reason to lynch RBT and I personally was really surprised by the lynch. Yesterday I was not expecting RBT to be lynched and I really wasn't on enough to fully comprehend the situation. That's all WIFOM and blah blah but I really didn't think RBT was in any danger.

I did not put much effort in stopping the RBT wagon. I honestly didn't think it was going to go anywhere and I did not foresee the lynch coming at all.

doesn't make any sense.

Nice OMGUS.

[hewitt]

That was a stupid statement.

Solid defense. Explain?

I in no way attacked Scien for pushing a case on a townie

Oh?

I found Scien asking for someone to hammer at the end on RBT was incredibly scummy, especially looking in hindsight as he flipped town.

That seems clear to me.

Emphasis on the hammer EB. And I have nothing I have to explain to you because you didn't say anything worthwhile.

[ODDin]

I wasn't entirely sure myself you meant Scien as the one who started the case, that's why I didn't use that as a point against you.

I had no idea that RBT was at L-2 while Fuzzy was at L-4. Considering I don't find you, EB, and Scien to be reliable or credible town players I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to follow you.

That's a contradiction. Either you didn't know RBT was at L-2, or you knew me, EB and Scien were voting for her (the other two votes that complete that L-2 are farside's, and I can give you the benefit of doubt and assume you missed it, and Fuzzy's which you couldn't have possibly missed since your entire argument was about him). So if you knew EB, Scien and myself were voting RBT, and seeing that you must have also known Fuzzy was voting her, you must have known she was at least at L-3.

But seriously, coming out of a complete reread with no grasp of who's leading in the votecount? I guess I should be thankful you knew what game you were playing.


And I'm not sure what doesn't make sense to you. You quoted a post which specifically says "RBT is at L-1". Hard to miss it right there.

[Scien]

Go study.

Pushing for Hewitt is silly. Even if he does have personal issues with me.

The guy is a pretty much confirmed mason with a dead mason buddy as confirmed town.

But I do think that post 785 was put together well.

Hewitt. Would you say that you have looked at the other people pushing the RBT case? I kind of got the feeling like you singled me out of that wagon for some reason.

[ODDin]

I'm accusing him of being a werewolf, obviously.

[hewitt]

Whatever you try to spin this as the fact still remains that I was surprised by RBT's lynch. End of story and you can try to spin it however way you want, but that's how it remains and that's how it is whether you like it or not.

[Scien]

I'm accusing him of being a werewolf, obviously."

Then he dies tonight anyway. And saves the town from a double hit from scum teams. Obviously.

[ODDin]

If you were surprised by the RBT lynch, it only means you tunneled Fuzzy to incredible levels of extremeness at the end of D1, managing to post without noticing anything around you whatsoever. Still scummy.

[ODDin]

Then he dies tonight anyway. And saves the town from a double hit from scum teams. Obviously.

Erm, you might have a point there, though I'm not sure it's that obvious that hewitt dies tonight.

[hewitt]

If you were surprised by the RBT lynch, it only means you tunneled Fuzzy to incredible levels of extremeness at the end of D1, managing to post without noticing anything around you whatsoever. Still scummy.

Can you read? I stated quite clearly that I was surprised because I didn't think anybody was going to be stupid enough to jump on that wagon.

[SaintKerrigan]

The guy is a pretty much confirmed mason with a dead mason buddy as confirmed town.

Umm...mind explaining to me in brief why you consider Hewitt a mason?