Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I PM'd hohum Friday and got a response from him that he was going to get caught up that night. He hasn't shown up yet?

He has until tomorrow morning - this is bad considering that he's modding 5 games or so in the Newbie queue. I'm going to send him one more PM now. If there's no response I will either take the game over or call it abandoned, depending on what state the other games he was modding are in.

My sincerest apologies folks. As has been stated, this is NOT the norm here on mafiascum.net. I will do my best to get this resolved ASAP.


Vel

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Guys I'll be doing regular vote counts and death/day restart scenes when necessary. If you need prods or anything else, please PM me directly.


Vel

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry guys, no access this past weekend. Looking for a replacement for tubby.



Official Vote Count!

*Zachrulez 3 (tubby216, manho, PaltryExcuse)
tubby216 1 (Zachrulez)

Not voting:

Starbuck, Kyiv.


4 to Lynch.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

hohum seems to have disappeared from the site, since he's not checking PMs. He has some RL issues going on, so I'm going to take over his games for him.

Send all night actions to me. I will do vote counts once per page. Any prod requests please PM me directly.

I know it's a WIFOM-y situation, but I've replaced into more than my fair share of Newbie games (check my Wiki if you need to see) and this was something I was just thinking about.

Some mods make it so that if the goon dies and the RB is left alive, the RB has to choose one or the other, whether to RB or to kill. Other mods make it so that the RB can do both. I'd say with the lack of kill last night that scum has to choose. This goes into WIFOM territory, but it was just something I was thinking about since we are on the subject.

The Mafia Roleblocker PM (see the first page) spells out that scum are only allowed to do one or the other if the RBer is the last scum left.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Starbuck - 1 (Kyiv)

Kyiv - 1 (Starbuck)

Not Voting - 3 (manho, Mr Finch, PaltryExcuse)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Friday, December 25.

Sweet! A Christmas Lynching!!!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Starbuck - 3 (Kyiv, manho, Mr Finch)

Kyiv - 1 (Starbuck)

Not Voting - 3 (PaltryExcuse)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Friday, December 25.

Sweet! A Christmas Lynching!!!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The remaining scum has a hard time hiding among so many cleared Townsfolk, and Starbuck is dragged off to the gallows. Her guilt is quite evident, and the Town rejoices in victory.

Starbuck,

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 4

Kyiv, manho, Mr Finch, and PaltryExcuse

win the game for the

Town

team!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Everyone should use this time to post thoughts and observations about the game. Ask questions and try to figure out what went wrong (and right) with your play and how you can learn from it and improve. Be polite in pointing out mistakes made by others! Conversely, if someone points something out, learn from it – don’t get offended!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

My only real complaint with this game was the restrictions placed on the roleblocker role.

They weren't allowed to roleblock AND kill, which I was under the impression was standard for newbie games. (

It should be anyway

.)

Why? Mods are allowed to pick either scenario, as long as they specify which is the one they're using.

I've not heard anyone voice any problem with doing things this way before this game. I'm curious what your take is.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

ok guys, stop bitching in thread. hohum has had several RL issues as of late, so lets leave the bashing out of it.

WRT the RBer only gets to do one or the other: Zach, start a MD thread. I don't know if it's ever been brought up or not to be honest. I just finished grad school 6 months ago, so it may very well have been and I just don't remember. I've got swiss cheese brain from grad school

I'll be very interested in the discussion.

WRT each scum sending in their own action: I have seen Mods do this before, requiring each scum to send in their own action. BUT hohum made a mistake in NOT allowing the scum team to perform all their actions when it was realized that there was a misunderstanding in the way he wanted the scum team to function.

Screw ups will happen, even to the best of Mods. There's nothing to be done about it now. I know it's frustrating, but I'd really prefer it if the bashing someone who was doing his best to try to help out in the Newbie queue stopped.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Zach, if you do make that MD thread, please send me a link to it?


Thanks!

Vel

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Interesting.

I just read the last two pages of 818, and Pomegranate's linked poll in post 626. May want to peruse it in regards to that poll.

Not sure if I want to standardize RB actions or not, but there are good arguments in there from both sides of the coin.

Newbie games are 3 weeks because that's plenty of time to run a game day and get everyone a good taste of how we do things here, so that they can move on to the "real" game queues. When newbie games were unlimited timeframe, you'd have games go on for weeks and weeks that didn't need to, because people would talk themselves to death and then sit on their asses and not commit to action.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Interesting.

I just read the last two pages of 818, and Pomegranate's linked poll in post 626. May want to peruse it in regards to that poll.

Not sure if I want to standardize RB actions or not, but there are good arguments in there from both sides of the coin.

You do have the cop and doctor actions standardized do you not? I imagine it would be considered a problem if a newbie mod started using non sane cops or doctors that suddenly weren't guaranteed to work.

And I think that's the problem you risk when you allow the roleblocker actions to be done different ways.

Yes they are standardized, but I think you're comparing apples to oranges here.

Newbie games are based on Normal game setups with minimal flavor and weirdness to allow the New players to focus on learning the game instead of focusing on learning the game AND trying to figure out how this weird role works.

Not giving the scum RBer the ability to do both just changes how difficult the game is to win if the Goon gets lynched.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Do you think it's right for a sole roleblocker to be unable to punish and capitalize on the mistakes the town has made by outing their power roles?

That probably brings the argument down to a far more basic level.

(I had a gut read on tubby as cop, but didn't have a clue who the doc was till manho claimed.)

I'm not talking about right or wrong here. As a matter of fact, for my games I let the RBer do both. I believe it keeps proper balance in the game no matter what the setup is. Reading over 818, I can see the other side of the argument as well. From that point of view, if the Goon gets lynched, why should the RBer get a cookie?

Your statement above is flat-out wrong. Why should the RBer get to "capitalize on the mistakes of the Town", when the scum team is the one who screwed up to the point of getting the Goon lynched? This is me playing Devil's Advocate, not necessarily voicing my opinion.

This is not about whether it's right or wrong, it's about whether it should be a standard built into the Newbie queue, like the 3-week deadline is.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

And of course the dillemna starbuck ran into was, kill Manho, get investigated guilty by cop, kill cop, and get kill blocked by doc.

Both those options suck, and only being able to roleblock the cop while giving the town an extra lynch, (I'd have to run the numbers, but I think a day 1 goon lynch gives them TWO extra lynches.) only sucks slightly less.

Again, why did the RBer look so scummy that she was a possible investigation target?


Remeber: Devil's Advocate.

I guess at the most basic level, I don't find the paticular setup fair, as it presents a setup that tends to teach newbies to hide behind power role claims, rather than being taught to keep quiet about them until the time is right and the info they gain is optimal to share with the town.

This is a MUCH better argument. The rest of it sounds like you're bitter about screwing the pooch and getting caught doing so. Don't take it personally, but that's how I'm seeing most of the discussion since the game ended - the scum team looks like they're trying to place blame anywhere except where it belongs. If this is going to offend you, then we don't need to have any further discussion. Take it for what it is: a simple observation. Distance yourself from the emotion of the game and see it from the perspective of someone who doesn't give a flip about the outcome.

This I have to think about. It's a very good point.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I guess the real question should be why the rber exists in newbie setups in the first place.

I wasn't around on the site when they were introduced, so I don't know for sure why they were created to begin with.

The old C9 setup was too unbalanced in favor of the the scum team. We went to a 9 player setup to give the Town one more day worth of discussions and introduced the RB to keep people from playing "follow the cop" in 50% of the games.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Do you think it's right for a sole roleblocker to be unable to punish and capitalize on the mistakes the town has made by outing their power roles?

That probably brings the argument down to a far more basic level.

(I had a gut read on tubby as cop, but didn't have a clue who the doc was till manho claimed.)

I'm not talking about right or wrong here. As a matter of fact, for my games I let the RBer do both. I believe it keeps proper balance in the game no matter what the setup is. Reading over 818, I can see the other side of the argument as well. From that point of view, if the Goon gets lynched, why should the RBer get a cookie?

Your statement above is flat-out wrong. Why should the RBer get to "capitalize on the mistakes of the Town", when the scum team is the one who screwed up to the point of getting the Goon lynched? This is me playing Devil's Advocate, not necessarily voicing my opinion.

This is not about whether it's right or wrong, it's about whether it should be a standard built into the Newbie queue, like the 3-week deadline is.

I don't concede that mistakes made by the scumteam allowed this to happen in the first place for this particular game.

My point is more to the fact that this kind of situation could easily happen again in a game with this ruleset, to the point where it punishes a scumteam for a goon lynch that resulted in a cop guilty. (What if it happened and the scumteam made no glaring mistakes?)

So the scum team had NO hand in it's loss? It was completely out of your hands that you lost?

IF that happened, it would suggest that a change was necessary. But, the chances of that happening are slim, considering that this setup only occurs 25% of the time. That other game would have to unfold pretty much the same way this one did.

And that's not likely to happen given that hohum made an error by not letting the scum team make a Night 3 kill.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Last post.