Newbie 843 (Game Over)

[manho]

i think there is still a small chance that Mr Finch is scum.

PaltryExcuse should be cleared as there is no reason for scum to no-kill night 1.
i am also cleared as i can only be scum with mr finch, but now zach flip scum. mr finch confirm there is a roleblocker, so there exist a doc, that's me.

but it is still possible that mr finch is the last scum, knowing there is no roleblocker and the doc claimed, so there is no cop and it is safe to claim cop.

another thing is that why don't the scum roleblock me and kill mr finch, or roleblock mr finch and kill me?

[Kyiv]

another thing is that why don't the scum roleblock me and kill mr finch, or roleblock mr finch and kill me?

I can't imagine anyone roleblocking and attempting to kill the same person. That would just be a waste, especially when there is still a doc around. I'm thinking we might have a scum who intentionally no killed to WIFOM this exact situation.

[Mr Finch]

i think there is still a small chance that Mr Finch is scum.

PaltryExcuse should be cleared as there is no reason for scum to no-kill night 1.
i am also cleared as i can only be scum with mr finch, but now zach flip scum. mr finch confirm there is a roleblocker, so there exist a doc, that's me.

but it is still possible that mr finch is the last scum, knowing there is no roleblocker and the doc claimed, so there is no cop and it is safe to claim cop.

OK, I blinked and missed something here. Tubby Claimed Day 3 and claimed he also claimed he was roleblocked. I said "I think". I can't confirm whether there is an RB or not as I am cop, not scum.

It's entirely possible that scum went for no night kill, but that makes no sense to me. They want to get rid of as many town as possible, surely?

another thing is that why don't the scum roleblock me and kill mr finch, or roleblock mr finch and kill me?

That kind of confused me too.

Nobody counter claimed Tubby, myself or manho as doc or cop. If we have a doc and cop there must also be a roleblocker.

My scenario posted in 724 made no sense according to Kyiv and manho. Therefore, did the scum really go for no NK?

I know this is a huge WIFOM situation and again I am typing this out to try and get it straight in my head.

Starbuck is still at L-1 with Paltry and Kyiv both voting her. The choice today has to be one of these two.

[Starbuck]

I know it's a WIFOM-y situation, but I've replaced into more than my fair share of Newbie games (check my Wiki if you need to see) and this was something I was just thinking about.

Some mods make it so that if the goon dies and the RB is left alive, the RB has to choose one or the other, whether to RB or to kill. Other mods make it so that the RB can do both. I'd say with the lack of kill last night that scum has to choose. This goes into WIFOM territory, but it was just something I was thinking about since we are on the subject.

[Starbuck]

I really don't care for Kyiv's case because not even based on anything I did. It's based on my predecessor and on Zach. She states questions about Meji's behavior that I can't answer because I'm not Meji. She's a different person than me. I don't know what she was thinking. It's very easy for her to make a case about everything that I can't control.

So I will

Vote: Kyiv

[PaltryExcuse]

Sorry for being non-existant these past couple days. School got the best of me, and I will catch up after some sleep.

I'll

unvote

until I catch up.

[Kyiv]

First off, credit where it's due:

You may talk with your partner at Night, and send me a choice via PM of who you would like to kill/roleblock (your team can do both if both of you live;

if only you survive, you must choose one action or the other

).

Mafia Roleblocker PM on page 1. However, this does not clear Starbuck or me of being scum; all it does is prevent Mr Finch from being completely cleared. However, I think about it this way: if Mr Finch is scum, the only person he would logically roleblock is Manho. Seeing that manho's ability is only useful if Mafia attempts to NK, the roleblock is in turn, made useless. And since Manho protected Mr Finch, we would have seen a kill, unless Mr Finch tried to kill himself. So Mr Finch is still mostly cleared, however he is still a possibility. I still think the prudent thing to do is choose between me or Starbuck for

today's

lynch.

And since Starbuck wants me to criticize something she can defend, though it will be hard considering how often you've posted:

Despite her feelings of a very scummy Tubby in Day 2, as soon as he claims cop, Starbuck hops very quickly on Zach, putting him at L-1 near instantly:

Exhibit A

This post can be seen two ways for a Starbuck scum... a scum who isn't carefully reading the thread jumping on a quicklynch backed by a cop claim (which a Starbuck scum would know to be true or false instantly), or two, a scum intimidated by a cop claim and wanting a quick bus of her partner before too much analysis or thought could be given to Zach's possible partners.

Next, when she posts this. This was such a strange attack on Zach, one that could only be seen from the perspective of scum. I believe this is a scumslip who knows that Zach is scum. Because a townie would not know if Zach was scum or not, and scum or town, if a cop attacks you with a guilty claim, you pretty much have to attack back; not because you need to to survive, but clearly he is a cop or scum, and as a town, he is clearly scum. A scumpartner would tentatively warn his partner (though maybe not out in the open like this) when they are attacking a claimed cop. Town wouldn't do that.

The very next post, she unvotes when it becomes clear no one else is voting for Zach immediately, stating that "Longer days are better for town." She repeats that today, and although this is now getting into game theory, I don't believe that that's entirely true. This is the kind of thing scum likes to latch on to, and in certain cases, use against the town. Like for instance, this game... the lynch today is me or Starbuck, but she repeats that longer days are better for town, and then throws out WIFOM to try and cast suspicion on Mr Finch.

Lastly, I'd like for you to answer something:

The first bit I read of the game I got a very pro-town read of EC, but as I read through farther, he got very scummy to me, which is why I felt my vote was better placed with him.

What about EC gave you a very pro-town feeling? What made him seem so scummy, that it completely destroyed his pro-town image you had of him, and try and lynch him?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

hohum seems to have disappeared from the site, since he's not checking PMs. He has some RL issues going on, so I'm going to take over his games for him.

Send all night actions to me. I will do vote counts once per page. Any prod requests please PM me directly.

I know it's a WIFOM-y situation, but I've replaced into more than my fair share of Newbie games (check my Wiki if you need to see) and this was something I was just thinking about.

Some mods make it so that if the goon dies and the RB is left alive, the RB has to choose one or the other, whether to RB or to kill. Other mods make it so that the RB can do both. I'd say with the lack of kill last night that scum has to choose. This goes into WIFOM territory, but it was just something I was thinking about since we are on the subject.

The Mafia Roleblocker PM (see the first page) spells out that scum are only allowed to do one or the other if the RBer is the last scum left.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Starbuck - 1 (Kyiv)

Kyiv - 1 (Starbuck)

Not Voting - 3 (manho, Mr Finch, PaltryExcuse)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Friday, December 25.

Sweet! A Christmas Lynching!!!!

[Mr Finch]

The Mafia Roleblocker PM (see the first page) spells out that scum are only allowed to do one or the other if the RBer is the last scum left.

Thanks Vel, I missed that bit in the first post and I promise I did go look guys!

So, Kyiv, What did you discuss with Zach before we lynched him?

[Kyiv]

So have you decided your lynch then, Mr. Cop?

[Mr Finch]

Answer my question and I will answer yours.

[PaltryExcuse]

i think there is still a small chance that Mr Finch is scum.

PaltryExcuse should be cleared as there is no reason for scum to no-kill night 1.
i am also cleared as i can only be scum with mr finch, but now zach flip scum. mr finch confirm there is a roleblocker, so there exist a doc, that's me.

but it is still possible that mr finch is the last scum, knowing there is no roleblocker and the doc claimed, so there is no cop and it is safe to claim cop.

OK, I blinked and missed something here. Tubby Claimed Day 3 and claimed he also claimed he was roleblocked. I said "I think". I can't confirm whether there is an RB or not as I am cop, not scum.

How else does someone get NO result when investigating? Your existence alone, along with manho's, should say to you: there is a Roleblocker. From your point of view, you should know. Secondly, getting no result on a person who is still alive is a good sign that there is a roleblocker for a cop.

First off, credit where it's due:

You may talk with your partner at Night, and send me a choice via PM of who you would like to kill/roleblock (your team can do both if both of you live;

if only you survive, you must choose one action or the other

).

Mafia Roleblocker PM on page 1. However, this does not clear Starbuck or me of being scum; all it does is prevent Mr Finch from being completely cleared. However, I think about it this way: if Mr Finch is scum, the only person he would logically roleblock is Manho. Seeing that manho's ability is only useful if Mafia attempts to NK, the roleblock is in turn, made useless. And since Manho protected Mr Finch, we would have seen a kill, unless Mr Finch tried to kill himself. So Mr Finch is still mostly cleared, however he is still a possibility. I still think the prudent thing to do is choose between me or Starbuck for

today's

lynch.

If Mr. Finch is the final scum, there is no roleblocker. Mr. Finch would have to be a goon as I firmly believe we have a doc in manho. If Mr. Finch is the final scum, he would have to of no killed, no action.

I really don't care for Kyiv's case because not even based on anything I did. It's based on my predecessor and on Zach. She states questions about Meji's behavior that I can't answer because I'm not Meji. She's a different person than me. I don't know what she was thinking. It's very easy for her to make a case about everything that I can't control.

So I will

Vote: Kyiv

I would argue that Meji's relationship to Zach is important, as any previous suspicions or suspicious behaviour by predecessors translates to the replacement. Isn't that why you were commenting on Soyasushi's behaviour? (even if you didn't expect me to answer?) Explaining how a town player in general would react / do those actions is the responsibility of the replacee.


About the most recent discourse between Kyiv and Mr. Finch:
Mr. Finch, you asked her what her conversation with Zach was about. The only way she could have a private conversation with Zach was if she was scum. What you asked was very leading, and scum or town yields little.

[Mr Finch]

@paltry Yes, I know.

No Kyiv, I have not made a decision yet. I am leaning towards Starbuck at the moment though.

BTW

@MOD: I am playing Sanjay's role. Thanks for taking over and keeping the game ticking.

[Kyiv]

If Mr. Finch is the final scum, there is no roleblocker. Mr. Finch would have to be a goon as I firmly believe we have a doc in manho. If Mr. Finch is the final scum, he would have to of no killed, no action.

Oh right! Good point.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Starbuck: Do you have a case on Kyiv beyond not liking her attack on you about Meji's play?

[manho]

thanks kyiv and vel, the roleblocker blocking mr finch is a reasonable tactic last night. but goon-mr finch no-killing is also reasonable.

vote: starbuck

starbuck is the most scummy here. i still believe tubby's claim. and kyiv is pro-town for bringing up the tactic that got her lynched and the town win.

[Mr Finch]

Posts 718 and 731 from Kyiv make me happier that she is pro-town. I agree with manho that Starbuck is scummy.

I also agree with this:

In D3, Zach is asked for his possible second scum suspect. He chooses Me and Starbuck, much like Tubby. He posts a couple sentences on Starbuck, then lays out a huge case on me. And then he flips scum... if you were scum and you were about to die, who would you put a stronger case for, your partner? Hardly.

Vote: starbuck

I know I said longer days are better, but this feels right and I think you (as well as me) will be glad to see the end of this game.

[PaltryExcuse]

I guess that's no, on Proposition 1: 'wait for Starbuck to make a case on Kyiv'.

[Starbuck]

I guess so, and I guess the fact that I am semi-V/LA while I am home visiting family doesn't matter to anyone.

I was going to catch up and give my case, but it's just not worth the time and effort now since no one gave me the chance.

[PaltryExcuse]

So, I take it by that last post... we haven't won then.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Starbuck - 3 (Kyiv, manho, Mr Finch)

Kyiv - 1 (Starbuck)

Not Voting - 3 (PaltryExcuse)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Friday, December 25.

Sweet! A Christmas Lynching!!!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The remaining scum has a hard time hiding among so many cleared Townsfolk, and Starbuck is dragged off to the gallows. Her guilt is quite evident, and the Town rejoices in victory.

Starbuck,

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 4

Kyiv, manho, Mr Finch, and PaltryExcuse

win the game for the

Town

team!!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Everyone should use this time to post thoughts and observations about the game. Ask questions and try to figure out what went wrong (and right) with your play and how you can learn from it and improve. Be polite in pointing out mistakes made by others! Conversely, if someone points something out, learn from it – don’t get offended!!

[Zachrulez]

My only real complaint with this game was the restrictions placed on the roleblocker role.

They weren't allowed to roleblock AND kill, which I was under the impression was standard for newbie games. (It should be anyway.)

Everything else was just the scumteam going down in flames.

When I unvoted cookie on day 2, I was actually trying to daytalk to Starbuck and send her a signal to lynch tubby instead. (Since cookie claimed vanilla and tubby was unclaimed.)

Unfortunately for our team, she didn't get the message.

Then I compounded matters by killing Ojanen instead of Tubby, who I was reasonably certain was the cop.