Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)

[SerialClergyman]

To be honest, even then it still wouldn't make any sense.

What exactly are you suggesting with that line of questioning, though?

[Kreriov]

Well, you seem really concerned about which kill is which. I think there are plenty of reason for the mafia to kill both, but not really any for the SK to kill FF. I personally think MS was killed by the SK, so your insistence that it was really the mafia who killed MS seems off to me. I doubt the mafia really care other than that the discussion would create WIFOM, but the SK would definitely care if he felt it threw off people looking at him.

[Grimmy]

My thoughts on the mafia vs Sk kills.

The mod made it a point to say how it was a war vet who made the choking kill. I think he did this to show the difference between a mafia (typically mob related/shooting kills) and a lone SK, as a disgruntled vet would make sense storywise to be the SK.

Grimmy

[Nikanor]

Wheeeeeeeeeeee.
I'm caught up (for the most part)!
What I'd like to know is a) Where exactly I was asking hollow questions (looking at yabba here), and b) Who found Flava suspicious on day two. I'll probably be looking over things to check, because I don't expect scum to admit to finding the dead guy suspicious now, but if they do it'll save me a bit of trouble.
Anyway, choking = mafia, shooting = sk. If I'm wrong and choking = sk, then SpyreX is sk for calling Michel sk.
sksksksk.

[Grimmy]

Some World War I veteran must be responsible for this one... which could be any of you!

^courtesy of the mod!
How is this not clear to everyone? Why are we even talking about this anymore? I think its a scum tactic to draw away from real scum hunting, so now this gives me a lead or two as to who may be who in this game.

Grimmy
will be able to read more tomorrow

[Grimmy]

The full case on him that I posted is here: viewtopic.php?p=1986420#1986420

More thoughts next time, but that really jumped out at me when i checked in this morning.

Read the case. Not buying it. You STARTED by saying Coug looks guilty, spent the middle of the post defending Iguana, and then end it with a quick thought about Coug being scum.

FOS: Serial

I want to read more into just how much people have put into this SK/Mafia flavor thing before I lay down a vote, but I do think you, serial, are voteworthy at this point. Once i finish my next read on the flavor arguements, Ill most likely throw my vote on to you, unless someone scummier stands out.

Grimmy

[StrangerCoug]

* Foilest was scummy as. Look at him in iso or in my original case.

I can't defend my predecessor. What he did, he did.

* SCoug has only attacked easy targets, including two who have flipped town already.

Only easy targets? Didn't I just yell at Iguana for not backing up her opinions? I don't think anyone's calling Iguana very easy.

* He has pushed a pro-town image by making obvious comments but has done very little hunting or pushing.

Quote my doing this please.

* Had a little hiccup where he joined MSH's wagon for no reason then unjoined it.

There was a reason, just an invalid one.

* Came out D3 with a significantly different attitude towards me.

Because I don't like your hammering a player you were almost certain was town, especially since you ended up being right.

[SerialClergyman]

Wow, Grimmy, that is rubbish. It was my replacing in post, I started it by explaining why I didn't think that Spyrex should persist with MSH and why we should instead focus on Coug. One of the three points I made against foilest contained Iguana's name but that's about the limit. There are still tow against foilest and more against SCoug that make up the majority of what I'm saying. I don't know quite how to respond to your assessment given it was just out and out wrong..

And if you think I'm voteworthy - vote me. What's with saying I'm voteworthy and not voting me?

That's just a shocker of a post. Worth coming back to after SCoug.

The fundamental problem with the NK situation is that there are two flavours for one kill and one flavour for the other. There is only one faction with multiple members, and thus multiple flavours possible. If anyone can explain that, I'll drop it. Coincidentally, the way that makes much more sense (that the mafia killed the suspected SK) is my way. I've gone over this enough I'm going to leave it there. If anyone is going to think me scummy because of this argument, I'd just like a reason more than 'general hijinks' for my motivation. I can't see how creating confusion about it would help me as scum or an SK.

As for Scoug - I can judge your playerslot on your predecessor even if you feel you can't explain his actions. Asking for quotes in reponse to a bullet point summary for another player is stupid, but your FOS of nikanor for shamelessly omgusing was a perfect example. You haven't persued a case, it wasn't something anyone could have missed, it was just a nothing post made to look protown.

If you were town and had worries about my hammer, I'd assume you would have addressed any of the points I made in explaining my actions, whether you did it yesterday or today.

Fair question, but the answers are through my posts.

A. He remained acting like an idiot and asking people to lynch him rather than posting anything of worth.
B. The mod denied a replacement request.
C. No other viable wagon looked possible.
D. His alignment being confirmed will hopefully get some backing to my theories.

Feel free to do so now. They are the reasons why I hammered. If you think my multiple posts tryign to get him replaced or trying to explain his actions as a null tell are disengenuous, try to make that case.

@ all

WAKE UP AND PLAY PLEASE. If you disagree with the SCoug case, post a different one. The utter nothingness of the posts from Spyrex, Nikanor and Col Cathart (not to mention the zero reponse from a significant group of other players) are just sapping my desire to bother fighting for this game.

[Nikanor]

Fiiiiiine.
*Hops to SC's SC bandwagon.*

Vote: StrangerCoug.

[SerialClergyman]

Nikanor earns himself a cookie. I have more.

[Col.Cathart]

Nikanor earns himself a vote, not a cookie.

unvote

vote: Nikanor

His play raised my alarm already during D2, when he was trying to keep alive that pointless discussion between MSH/Yabba/Spyrex.

And about D3, I have a theory:

Someone (Clergyman, I think): Ok that's it. No more lynching VI-like players.

Scum Nikanor: So... If I'll start acting like a VI... They won't lynch me. Awesome!


-------

Clergyman: Although MSH kill doesn't make any sense from SK, I still think it was him, not mafia. Why? I don't have much time to find it unfortunately, but I remember, that during my newbie times, I was checking all the roles posted on the wiki. One of them was a Flavor Cop or something like that, who insted of getting guilty/innocent result, got a gun/no gun, where mafia, cop, vigilante are the roles that can have a gun. Serial Killer was excluded from the 'gun' list, because his weapon of choice is usually knife.

So now, when I see, that one killing source is using a gun, and second is choking it's victims, I'm going to say Mafia shoots, because SK is not using the gun

[Nikanor]

His play raised my alarm already during D2, when he was trying to keep alive that pointless discussion between MSH/Yabba/Spyrex.

Sure it did. You just didn't say anything back then because it was better to keep it a secret, right?

Scum Nikanor: So... If I'll start acting like a VI... They won't lynch me. Awesome!

Actually, all these votes on me are giving me things to talk about. I welcome the pressure.

[Col.Cathart]

Sure it did. You just didn't say anything back then because it was better to keep it a secret, right?

Bad memory?

[Nikanor]

Ohhhhhh an FoS and a one-liner. Spooky.

And about D3, I have a theory:

Someone (Clergyman, I think): Ok that's it. No more lynching VI-like players.

Scum Nikanor: So... If I'll start acting like a VI... They won't lynch me. Awesome!

Even if this was true, I 'started acting like a VI' before SerialClergyman wrote his spiel on not lynching the easy targets.

[Col.Cathart]

Ohhhhhh an FoS and a one-liner. Spooky.

It was enough.

In fact, one liner is enough to sum up your entire performance in this game, so...

Even if this was true, I 'started acting like a VI' before SerialClergyman wrote his spiel on not lynching the easy targets.

Unless that's your plan with Clergyman for D3 (yes, I am suggesting you being buddies).

And by the way: Why are you trying to look like a VI?

[Nikanor]

And by the way: Why are you trying to look like a VI?

That is not the impression I intend to give, I assure you. If it looks that way to you, it's because I've completely lost track of this game after not keeping up with the game for the week or so before the deadline. I'm just starting to regain my bearings now.

Also, the one-liner was enough to place an FoS on me, yet you still kept your weak vote on Pom, despite nothing coming of it. Why?

[Col.Cathart]

That is not the impression I intend to give, I assure you. If it looks that way to you, it's because I've completely lost track of this game after not keeping up with the game for the week or so before the deadline. I'm just starting to regain my bearings now.

...

Ok, I still don't know, why are you writing 'weeeee' type posts, and follows the random wagon, if you lost the track of the game, instead of saying typical 'sorry for inactivity, re-reading thread right now'.

But fair enough, I'll wait impatiently for you proving me wrong.

Also, the one-liner was enough to place an FoS on me, yet you still kept your weak vote on Pom, despite nothing coming of it. Why?

IMO this vote is far from being weak. Pom played terribly during D1, and jumped on me for doing exactly the same thing she was doing. Then she disappeared, came again, disappeared again, she got replaced by someone who still didn't move his ass up here.

Bottom line: Pom was terribly scummy, and further inactivity of both her, and hohum, is doing nothing to change it. Unfortunately, no one seems to follow this trail (except from Honcho, who now disappeared as well), so I have to go the other way.

Mod: Can you please prod those, who still didn't post anything during D3?

[Nikanor]

Ok, I still don't know, why are you writing 'weeeee' type posts, and follows the random wagon, if you lost the track of the game, instead of saying typical 'sorry for inactivity, re-reading thread right now'.

But that's so cliche!

Why are you voting me now, then, instead of hohum? What changed? Is it really that one 'wheeee' post that makes the difference between myself being scummier than Pom to you?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Ill. I hope to recover soon.

[SpyreX]

Ohhh god this looks like its shaping up to be lol, reactions AGAIN my lord why, why why.

* Foilest was scummy as. Look at him in iso or in my original case.
* SCoug has only attacked easy targets, including two who have flipped town already.
* He has pushed a pro-town image by making obvious comments but has done very little hunting or pushing.
* Had a little hiccup where he joined MSH's wagon for no reason then unjoined it.
* Came out D3 with a significantly different attitude towards me.

What do you think the difference in attitude is? Thats the one that gets me - considering that, yea, there was scum on that wagon if SC is scum why would he flip on YOU after that versus the others?

[SerialClergyman]

Ohhh god this looks like its shaping up to be lol, reactions AGAIN my lord why, why why.

!support.

What do you think the difference in attitude is? Thats the one that gets me - considering that, yea, there was scum on that wagon if SC is scum why would he flip on YOU after that versus the others?

Why wouldn't he? I have a very specific theory about this but I'm not too keen on sharing it just at the moment. But isn't it enough that after the night phase SCoug acts significantly differently? And why wouldn't he come out after the person that has been saying he's scum unequivocally since the start of the game?

[SpyreX]

Actually, far from it being enough there's only one theory that makes a lot of sense for him attacking YOU specifically if scum out of the gate: to pre-empt an attack from you (see Krer).

Overall I COULD see a scum salivating at that but at you? No way. There were WAY more shady people on that wagon.

I think I'm gonna need that theory to see if I'm missing something VITAL because as it is I'm not seeing the deadpan scum motivation for it.

[SpyreX]

I'd also like the replacements to be replacements AND honcho, skitzer, et all to wake up.

[SerialClergyman]

I don't understand this line:

Overall I COULD see a scum salivating at that but at you? No way. There were WAY more shady people on that wagon.

Are you saying that my suggesting this scenario is true is indicative of me being scum? Or are you saying that scenario isn't scummy at all?

Either way - there being shadier people on the wagon doesn't prove or disprove the point on this particular issue. As I said, I'm not prepared to go over the specific motivation I read in the play yet, but it shouldn't particularly be necessary. On that point, the question is whether SCoug is genuinely affronted by my hammering of saberwolf or if he is scum who is pre-empting an attack. I think the latter is far more likely, especially given his lack of material in attacking me or attacking my reasons for hammering.

And what about everything else on my bullet point list?

Why do you think he's town?

[SpyreX]

No. You're oozing town. So, why would scum roll the hard one going after you?

As for the rest of the list:
Foil was scummy enough that yes that is a black mark.
The "easy targets" thing is a bit of a misnomer simply in the fact they were easy for a reason.
I'll need to give a reread because I didn't get the impression he was posting noise (which would kind of be necessary)
The MSH thing is... yea. I'll give you that.

I'm just not sold - I had the vibe from his play of a classic town replacement replacing a flaker. His has been a gut read doubly fueled by the interactions you two have had smelling of town on town.