Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[Benmage]

The meep Vote count

ElectricBadger - Scien
Hewitt - ElectricBadger, ODDin
ODDin - Hewitt, Nikanor, Scien, Farside22
SaintKerrigan - Benmage
Benmage - SaintKerrigan

Not Voting: Maemuki, ODDin, SaintKerrigan.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

The only excuse she has is to play the newb card and not understand what was going on...basically pleading dumb because if she thought about it and deduced it she'd come to the logical conclusion i am forcing you to realize.

And do we lynch on novicehood? Yes.

[ODDin]

Scien: you said: "doesn't clear you at all and in fact might even hurt you in the long run when the town decides to test that "well one of them might be scum" theory. "
But that doesn't make sense, since the town has no more reason to suspect him more because he's a mason. People aren't just going to "test the theory" for the lulz.

You may say that it can hurt him because he was on a town wagon. However:
1) I already said I'm not buying that he didn't see the RBT wagon. Perhaps he figured Fuzzy wouldn't actually be lynched.
2) Being on a townie wagon D1 isn't really a big crime. He was hardly the first to express suspicions of Fuzzy, and god knows Fuzzy deserved to be suspected.

[Benmage]

Nope. Not buying it. I think anyone would hesitate.

Ok you hesitate for a second...you think about it and then what....she refused to claim, so she thought about it..WHy??

There is no scenario...feel free to try again.

[Scien]

Nope. I think many people, while trying to figure out what is going on, especially after replacing in, would take time to figure it out.

[Scien]

"People aren't just going to "test the theory" for the lulz."
Lawl. I disagree. People do funny things when pressured.

[Benmage]

Nope. I think many people, while trying to figure out what is going on, especially after replacing in, would take time to figure it out.

Yes many people are bad on this site. Refusal to claim...bad...again, after thinking about it where does the deduction fall into?

[Benmage]

"People aren't just going to "test the theory" for the lulz."
Lawl. I disagree. People do funny things when pressured.

Scum do.

[ElectricBadger]

Meh...weird sudden silence.

The trap was BS, and I can't believe townie-Ben would have thought it was a real reason to lynch let alone kept pushing it in the face of logic.

I also think Scien has a point about Hew; not as solid a point as he seems to imply, and I'm not sure why he's pushing it, but Hew probably isn't the best lynch today.

Unvote Hew, Vote Benmage.

Vote count pretty please!

Looking forward to hearing from Maem...very close to the deadline and still no vote or commentary at all is distressing.

[Haylen]

I'll do one in a bit

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm here, for the record. The reread is taking longer than I thought (thanks, Farside and Scien ).

I do have one thing to say, though, about why I think scum-Benmage would try to pull a stunt like this to try and out a member of the scumteam opposing his. Based on the setup, if both scumteams manage to lynch only town roles on Days 1 and 2 and only nightkill town roles on Nights 1 and 2, this leaves them in a Day 3 where there are two town roles and four scum. Now, if a townie is lynched again, this leaves a Night 3 with four scum and one town. At that point, one of the scumteams is definitely going to lose no matter what happens (except for one scenario in which both probably draw).

Scenario 1: Scumteam 1 or Scumteam 2 hits the final townie. The other scumteam hits a member of the opposing scumteam. This leaves a Day 4 where it's 1 scum vs 2 opposing scum (automatic loss for the 1 scum).

Scenario 2: Scumteams 1 and 2 both hit each other to go 1-1. This leaves a Day 4 where there is 1 scum, 1 other scum, and 1 townie. This is a very unpredictable situation for scum, since neither one can afford to vote for the townie (because the town will likely countervote the voting scum, leaving the final scum to vote his scum opponent and claim victory). Even if both scum successfully vote each other, this leaves the townie as the person who decides which scum will win the game. I highly doubt that either scumteam would consider this situation ideal.

Scenario 3: Both scum hit the final townie, leaving both scumteams at full strength on Day 4. This will likely result in a draw (since no one is going to achieve a majority). Assuming both teams are playing for the win (and there's no reason I can see why they shouldn't), this is not a situation they want to find themselves in.

Basically, what this means is that if both scumteams continue to lynch and nightkill solely townies, they are going to wind up in a detrimental endgame. The best way for

either

scum side to ensure a victory is to get a scum lynch (of the opposing team, obviously) on either Day 2 or Day 3, giving one team a 2-1 advantage over the other.

I feel that Benmage as scum likely realized the scenarios I described earlier, and knew he had to try and get his team the 2-1 advantage. So he concocted this trap and sprung it on a replacing monk, because he figures if he can get one monk lynched, he and his partner will nightkill the other monk. There is a more likely possibility of finding scum in the monk-mason groups than in the rest of the players, so attacking these groups makes sense.

This turned into a much longer post than I thought it was going to be. Going back to reading up now...

[farside22]

That's a lot of wine in front of me. Just for the record I did a game similar to the set up and there was one wolf, one townie and 1 mafia left. Both the wolf and the mafia killed the townie in the end so the game was a draw.
Really sucked for me as I thought I had it figured out and second guessed myself in the game.
But I regress all that comment that SK is based on WIFOM.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Farside: The scenarios the scum can wind up in are certainly not WIFOM. Hence, why they really need to get someone on the opposing team lynched today or tomorrow and why I think Benmage would try to pull a stunt like this.

[Benmage]

Chuck Norris does not wear a condom. Because there is no such thing as protection from Chuck Norris.

Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas.

Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.

When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

Chuck Norris once kicked a horse in the chin. Its decendants are known today as Giraffes.

Chuck Norris doesn't breathe, he holds air hostage.

Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him.


Let me know when logic enters the game again...SK's first paragraph wont happen...another 3 deaths without hitting either teams seems unlikely.

[ElectricBadger]

Didn't you nearly lynch me for sidelining the game while it went in annoying directions, Ben? ...and that wasn't while people were challenging me.

Convoluted endgame scenarios aside, I'm still liking my Hew/Ben werewolf pairing and it makes the desire to kill off a monk fairly obvious.

[ODDin]

Benmage: You still haven't answered to my question about Zazier. You've criticised her play a lot in your reading of the game, yet you didn't accuse her of being scummy on that basis. And now that you're voting SK, you seem to be voting based on your latest trick alone, not taking into consideration the previous actions of Zazier.
Why?

[ODDin]

Also, EB, you said you were intending to do an ISO of me. Any news on that front?

[ODDin]

EBWOP: Zazier is a he.

[Benmage]

Benmage: You still haven't answered to my question about Zazier. You've criticised her play a lot in your reading of the game, yet you didn't accuse her of being scummy on that basis. And now that you're voting SK, you seem to be voting based on your latest trick alone, not taking into consideration the previous actions of Zazier.
Why?

I did too answer this. Dont say i didnt...if i answered it in a way that you wanted more explained than say so...dont lie and make it seem like i am purposely ignoring you.

Now. Read what i said about zaz...and if its incomplete, let me know.

[Benmage]

Didn't you nearly lynch me for sidelining the game while it went in annoying directions, Ben? ...and that wasn't while people were challenging me.

Convoluted endgame scenarios aside, I'm still liking my Hew/Ben werewolf pairing and it makes the desire to kill off a monk fairly obvious.

You said you we're done scum hunting. Mine was purposely comical...because SK's deduction and reasoning is so farfetched and depends on so many things to occur.

[Benmage]

Also EB, your vote is totally omgus-ish. Pushing the vote in the face of logic....

No one has illustrated logic to counter what i've done. Scien tried, and failed miserably and has since backed off...good for him.

You make bold statements with zero backing and your vote is shit.

You really like SK's deduction and scenarios...wowzers, if you were town than you'd have the same end goal as i do...even if i mislynched you, why would you join an obvious scum? His arguments are pathetic. Play better, not emotional..."oh my god benmage keeps pressure me...ooh an opportunity to attack him....*runnnnn*..."...He's scratching at straws and looking for anything to condemn me because i caught him with his pants down.

[Scien]

Scien tried, and failed miserably [...]

Nope. You just feel like I failed because you are clinging to your flimsy assertions. It's not worth trying to prove it to you, its obvious to others that your trap proved nothing.

BTW is there anyone in this game that you haven't accused of OMGUS yet?

ODDin would be good dead now. Why isn't he again?

[Benmage]

Scien tried, and failed miserably [...]

Nope. You just feel like I failed because you are clinging to your flimsy assertions. It's not worth trying to prove it to you, its obvious to others that your trap proved nothing.

My flimsy assertions that you failed to show a logical alternative...bam

Yes, others are equally as bad, and or scum not wanting to hear the truth. Bad town dont see through scum persuasion. There's 4 of em out there still...which also answers why ODDin isn't lynched and why EB will live.

But nevertheless with the deadline approaching we dont need anymore distractions..(*** <<self censorship)

Anyways who decided to hop off EB and return to ODDin?? Scien/Far? Ok...well

unvote vote ODDin

Nik/Hew follow suite please.

[Scien]

Heh... I'm not falling for your 'bad' troll. I'm not the one suggesting something means more than it does('There is no way that anyone could fall for my trap and be townie'), or that someone said something they didn't ('opposing scum-team comment').

You really want to call me a bad player? Whatever man.

[Benmage]

I'm not the one suggesting something means more than it does

You're suggesting that the most probable outcome isn't the course to follow.

[Scien]

I don't even think its the most probable outcome. That would be another of your assertions I have grief with.

As I have said before I could see either a scum or townie hesitate like that. You

claim

that its more likely for a scum to do so. I just don't see it.