Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[PaltryExcuse]

tl;dr : Too long, didn't read.

[Mr Finch]

tl;dr : Too long, didn't read.

Thanks.

[Kmd4390]

Yes, it is. It is a combined game, not one first and then the other. The name of the game is Big Brother Mafia. Point me to another game of mafia that has POV and coup d'eta. This is not called Mafia with touches of Big Brother.

It's a mafia game with a Big Brother theme. It is NOT a Big Brother game. The idea is to find the scum like in mafia (if you are town), NOT to be the last remaining player like in Big Brother. If you are playing this like Big Brother, you are NOT playing to your win condition.

Going off of an associative tell for the first vote is very weird. Especially since your main reason for thinking Llama is scum was his relation to Kmd and Sens (in regard to his explanation for his vote for Kmd as HoH, which you didn't like)! I think you're spiraling a bit out of control here with your whole "DisCode is tied to LlamaFluff, and LlamaFluff is tied to Kmd, and since Kmd is scum, that means LlamaFluff is scum, so DisCode is also scum." And all this without Kmd even flipping scum yet!

Actually, Zwet/Llama/Paltry's actions combined with me being a good scum player make me scum. DisCode is the 5th scum on our team. Haven't you been reading Sly's posts?

He wasn't replaced when I nominated him. WIFOM.

1. How the hell is there any WIFOM here?
2. So what if there was?

@kmd - Can you put up a DC case?

I'll try when I have time.

[farside22]

Diary room

"I'm not sure what to think of these nominations. I don't know how I'm going to vote"

Nominee bv310/Hewitt vote count:

bv310 (1) Kmd4390
Hewitt (0)

Deadline is Tuesday Dec 15, 5:00pm PST

[SlySly]

It's a mafia game with a Big Brother theme.

See it however you want. I am not battling semantics on this topic anymore. This game is a combination of Big Brother and mafia. There are elements of both games.

He wasn't replaced when I nominated him. WIFOM.

1. How the hell is there any WIFOM here?
2. So what if there was?

It could be argued either way that he was flaking or lurking. At the time of nomination, neither could be proven. I don't care either way, he wasn't participating and that is the bottom line. This whole line of discussion is another semantics battle brought on by Llama. Semantics battleground is a place that Llama likes to be. kmd is showing quite a fondness for the grass there too.

[Kmd4390]

It's not semantics. If you are playing this game like Big Brother, you are not playing to your win condition.

Ok, but flaking vs lurking has nothing to do with WIFOM. And even it it was WIFOM, WIFOM is not always a bad thing.

[SlySly]

If you are playing this game like Big Brother, you are not playing to your win condition.

This statement is just wrong. Survival is the name of the game in BB and in this game. The difference is that it doesn't come down to 2 people voted on by their peers at the end. The faction you are in just has to be the last that can't be eliminated. BB tactics can be applied to your win condition in this game.

Ok, but flaking vs lurking has nothing to do with WIFOM. And even it it was WIFOM, WIFOM is not always a bad thing.

I just meant WIFOM in a way that it couldn't be argued and proven either way, therefore irrelevant. I didn't mean there was anything bad by it.

[bv310]

Sorry about the delay, I have two finals tomorrow that I'm studying for. I went through the first 27 pages, keeping notes as I went.

If I had been playing this from the beginning, I would have gone with Sensfan/Ani as scumbuddies, with Sly as possibly on the opposing faction. Snow_Bunny seems to be actively lurking quite a bit, as are Siroginous and Saber.

These are Finch's questions:
Why should you be aloud to "live"?

Because having just replaced into this game, I feel like I will be able to help with the scumhunting by not having any connections to other players.

What will you do to help us catch mafia?

Post the way I always do: well thought out questions and active scumhunting

Will you be active?

Very much so. I'm still very interested to see why DisCode was nominated, given that he basically did nothing to draw any attention towards himself.


Incidentally, that is why I suspected him at first (until I saw I was replacing him). He seemed suspicious to me because he kept posting excuses for not contributing. I'm seeing now that this may just be because he was busy irl.

If you guys want, I can do a person-by-person read Sunday. I don't particularly want to, since it's a bit of a pain in the ass and I'd rather just start with a clean slate.

[LlamaFluff]

Very much so. I'm still very interested to see why DisCode was nominated, given that he basically did nothing to draw any attention towards himself.

Spoiler:

Because Sly thinks im scum and you are my partner.

[Sironigous]

Oh wow.
From Page 14...

@Snowbunny regarding that question...

How is numbers bad when I'm trying to explain what someone else said? (which that someone else still didn't explain)... I even scratched it when I messed up right after.

Thus, Sironigus was the first one to concretely suggest that the HoH not necessarily listen to the town. While others hinted that the HoH should not be a sheep, Sironigus put it into suggestion format. The intent seems good...that Sironigus wants to see the HoHs input without the players running the entire show during that timeperiod, but in honesty, it's tough to be the HoH and not show a single bit of input at the same time.

Arr- that's what it was. One HoH nominee and one town nominee. There is no way to isolate both of them.

So to suggest a concrete plan that allows the HoH to go against the will of the town (especially right after Mr Finch announced that this is particularly what could lead the town into failure)... I have to see this as suspicious. Furthermore, I'm surprised Mr Finch didn't call Sironigus out so early. Especially if I read this post carefully enough.

I think you're overexaggerating; it's not completely against the town. Besides, in order for the HoH candidate to be evicted, he needs to win the

support of the town.

Obviously if the HoH candidate is townish, the town candidate is probably going to be evicted anyway.

When Sironigus is called out for talking about independent thought, then backs off quite quickly into obscurity. Sironigus seems to be laying back so early for thinking that he had a nice little suggestion going on early. Says a lot of words without really having a stance on anything. Also, there's this weird post in which Sironigus asks for clarification on something about lurkers...and it almost reads as if Sironigus is defending against a future allegation that he himself is a lurker.

This is more over the discussion of what HoH actually is... I'll keep my beliefs with that, you guys can keep yours...
(i.e. - Tracker - to find power roles or catch mafia)

Presented up distracting numbers nonsense. Has given some absolutely stupid reasons for some of his stances.

AHH.

Numbers was ONE post that I quickly took back after. GEEZ, I didn't even try to fix it.

---

I was pretty o_O with KMD nomination...

---

DisCode nominee was sudden also.

On DisCode/BV vs. SensFan/Hewitt...

I'm more likely to vote for Hewitt now, based on Sensfan.

Right now the only thing DisCode has on him is his initial posts.. and that post BV made.

---

Did I stutter? I wanted you on the block because

1 - I think YOU are scum

. Since I didn't think that would be successful, I went for the guy you wanted in power because if you are scum wanting a lurker in power, that

2-suggest HE might be scum too.

1 - @SlySly - if DisCode turns town, would that change your view on Llama?
2 -... That's stretching it. Don't like this reasoning at all.

Ugh, that was bleh. I probably missed a bunch of info.

[animorpherv1]

Why should you be aloud to "live"?

Because having just replaced into this game, I feel like I will be able to help with the scumhunting by not having any connections to other players.

I don't count this as a valid reason. replacing in =/= Get Out of Jail Free.

[farside22]

Replacing Zwet do to his V/LA being a bit much will be Kast.

I'm going to give an extra 24 hours to vote against the 2 nom's so all replacements have a bit of extra time to catch up.

prodding pablito

[animorpherv1]

Kast:

opinions on the game.

List in order from most scummy to least scummy.

[saberwolf]

welcome to our newest member

[bv310]

I'm cool with taking responsibility for all 4 of DisCode's posts

[hewitt]

It's not semantics. If you are playing this game like Big Brother, you are not playing to your win condition.

I think the floaters should be playing this like it's Big Brother in a way because it's important for floaters to be in positions of power. I think it's important for floaters to be trying very hard to get HoH and stay off the block in order to stay out of eviction's way. The less floaters we have on the block the less chance we have of being evicted.

Why should you be aloud to "live"?

Because having just replaced into this game, I feel like I will be able to help with the scumhunting by not having any connections to other players.

That reasoning is just as applicable to me.

[bv310]

Yup. Neither of us really should be up here after everything, but I can understand wanting to move on.

[PaltryExcuse]

bv310: Some idea as to why you could see Sens/Ani as scumbuddies... etc. would be really helpful. If town, you have no reason not to give us some information as to what led you to your thinking.

[pablito]

Hrm. Discode is up.

Still amazed by hewitt's reaction to Llama going up. It's still too early to know llama's alignment, but it was more that hewitt framed the situation as "I'm going to be lynched" rather than "if I go up against llama, I'm certain that we'll lose a town-aligned player". I don't think it's damning, but it was definitely not pro-town language.

I think Sly was not reasoning correctly to believe that "non-participation" could be grouped together as a common reason why others were brought up.

Replacement suggestions and reasoning so far:

Llama(1) - SlySly (tunneling, lobby for waste of POV, ignoring questions)
zwet(2) - Mr. finch (non-participation, useless), animo (non-participation, useless)
saber(1) - hewitt (policy lynch, suspects won't be helpful)
snow_bunny(1) - saber (no reason given)
animo(2) - Llama (crap he pulled), Crazy (ani voted Sens due to Sens replacement request)
siroginous(1) - pablito (saying a bunch of nothing, push for specific plan earlier)

3 votes by reason of not helpful or non-participation, 4 if you cound pablito's "bunch of nothing" reasoning.

Sly says Llama is ignoring questions,
Mr Finch and animo say that zwet is not participating
I say that Sironigous is saying a lot of nothing yet still posting.
Discode flaked

Others have already brought up that discode flaking is not the same as lurking, but I'd like to bring the case that not helping, not participating was a different sense for each of the above players.

Llama is said to ignore questions, and I assume that he was one of your "not helpful" people that you mention. Llama is posting (shows activity), yet either missed or is choosing to not respond to questions (shows that he has read something in thread), and has posted something in rep ly (shows that he has formulated some response to something in thread).

others say zwet is not participating. zwet was somewhat posting (shows activity), may or may have not read something in thread, and clearly had not formulated some response to something in thread.

I say Sironigous was not posting (past activity instead), may or may have not read something in thread, and had formualted responses to something in thread.

Just saying that we can't compare the nuances in non-participation or not being helpful.

I can see some reason why Discode was chosen, but I think it was a choice made on way too much fear.

Also just want to mention that in BB Mafia 1, two replacements were up first week as well. Both were town, ha.

Not pleased with bv310's responses really. Hasn't shown much scumhunting yet. Hasn't convinced me yet that he doesn't deserve my vote, but at the same time, hewitt really hasn't either. At least there's some consistency in bv's one post so far - talks about suspecting discode for not contributing much while at the same time mentioning active lurkers earlier in the post.

I think you're overexaggerating; it's not completely against the town. Besides, in order for the HoH candidate to be evicted, he needs to win the support of the town. Obviously if the HoH candidate is townish, the town candidate is probably going to be evicted anyway.

Honestly, I thought this suggestion was quite scummy before. After SlySly's reign, I'm not sure.

@Both nominees, please complete the HoH application that Grandi posted. I think it will give us something to talk about and may give us more understanding on who may help us more long-term.

[hewitt]

HoH applicationform
1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?
No not really. I think after this week everybody will mostly have got the hang of the game and it's schematics so if they're making bad decisions as HoH it's more likely they're doing it on purpose instead of just not knowing any better. Being a weak player is not an excuse in this game, if you're HoH, I'd expect a decent job from everybody equally.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)
I think it's very important that the HoH and the town knows exactly who everybody wants. I think those picks that the town collectively make should most definitely have a big impact on the HoH's decision.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?
No. I would nominate the person I want most to be evicted along with a player who I think is just very weak and unhelpful. That way if the most likely scum player isn't evicted for some reason then at least an anti-town player is evicted.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___
I would nominate SlySly and saberwolf

[pablito]

Thank you sir.

Seems like you're sending a clear message, hewitt, that the name of the game next round, if you're HoH, should be a referendum on SlySly - either pro or against him - not so much candidate A vs. candidate B. That's fine I guess, but I'd think we really should be looking as many people as possible this early in the game.

[hewitt]

Thank you sir.

Seems like you're sending a clear message, hewitt, that the name of the game next round, if you're HoH, should be a referendum on SlySly - either pro or against him - not so much candidate A vs. candidate B. That's fine I guess, but I'd think we really should be looking as many people as possible this early in the game.

I think as the votes fall out we'll definitely be getting better looks at players who are just kind of coasting along quietly, which will be very helpful. And I doubt that I would get HoH considering I'm campaigning to evict bv. But if he's evicted and I'm HoH I'm most definitely going to be nominating SlySly unless there's a kind of sudden change of heart in the town over the course of this eviction to nominations and there are better nominations out there.

[pablito]

True, with the whole modkill or vote thing, people do have to choose sides, which thus provides a paper trail for us to look at later.

Although one should hope that everyone says enough so that we don't have to rely on the paper trail.

[hewitt]

True, with the whole modkill or vote thing, people do have to choose sides, which thus provides a paper trail for us to look at later.

Although one should hope that everyone says enough so that we don't have to rely on the paper trail.

Ideally but I don't think it's going to work that way.

[animorpherv1]

As I've been saying, I have a town vibe from hewitt (general helpfullness and such). I'd much rather vote for bv310 (says he's reading, but only when asked, did he give us anything). Subtle things like that could be the distance between the "town" winning or losing.

vote:bv310