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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:44 am

Post by Memorable Raindrops »

saberwolf wrote:I'd hate to have you in lylo, you'd vote for the first person to get a vote, just because it isn't for you.

unvote; vote: MR
That is what I call fortune-telling. Your new reason to vote me (other than for voting for you and "taking advantage of a situation.)" is because you'd hate to have me in Lylo.
curiouskarmadog wrote:
so the key to avoiding your vote is to not be annoying? I cant really take anything from this statement, since you are new....but you cant play that newbie card all game.

Also, when you replay, please don’t reply in the quoted post…hard to read.

You told dank his play was distracting…what was it distracting from?
He is scummy because he has been hindering good discussion with his antics. His play distracts us from discussing "normally" as in good old fashioned discussion. Instead, he has told us all about his metas etc. and doesn't hesitate to bring them up. That's scummy, that he can't defend himself except by use of his metas and asking people "remember this game?"
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:03 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

Memorable Raindrops wrote:
He is scummy because he has been hindering good discussion with his antics. His play distracts us from discussing "normally" as in good old fashioned discussion. Instead, he has told us all about his metas etc. and doesn't hesitate to bring them up. That's scummy, that he can't defend himself except by use of his metas and asking people "remember this game?"
what good discussion can there be had on pages 1-3? As far as I can see, he brought us out of the random voting stage very fast. He has inadvertantly got us out of the crap into good discussion. please define for me what is "normal" and "good" discussion. Since you played the newbie card, I didnt think you knew what "old fashion discussion" was in a mafia game. His very first post he said his play was going to be the same as whatever (I dont really care about the whatever). What has he distracted from, versus what is being discussed now? what exactly does he need to defend himself about?

I am trying to figure out if you are just illogical, havent thought why you think he is scummy, new, or pushing a scum agenda.

my scumdar is tingling.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:04 am

Post by saberwolf »

Something or another...


Lynxie Poo


ISO 1: Lynx mentions how he loves us all too much to lynch any of us [funny, cause he wants me gone now...], and then goes for a no lynch. That's suspicious, because to me that's scum trying to avoid responsibility for his vote.

ISO 2: Comes to the assumption that I will self hammer [even though I never said I would, I was just showing a similar game where anti-town is norm] and tries to take advantage by placing me closer to hammer. Claims that if I'm going to be unhelpful, then it's best for me to go.

ISO 3: Claims that his vote is not a policy vote. Last I checked, voting for reasons other than me actually being scummy [i.e unhelpful], is a policy vote, so what's the deal ther eLynx?

ISO 4: "Trying to paint yourself as a highly volatile player does not make you impossible to read. "

but next:

"Then whats the vote for?"


"To elicit a response from him."

Apparently it does :P I'd still say it does for the fact that I know I'm town and you have clouded judgement, and the results of your scumhunting will show that when I get lynched or NKed at some point in this game.

ISO 5, 6 and 8: You keep going on and on about how my apparant upcoming self hammer should not keep votes away, and how that makes me scum. I'm still not sure why this is the backbone of your case on me. Regardless of whether I self hammer or not, I'd be lynched for the reason that others thought I was scummy. Are you saying that players are too scared to vote me because I might be town and lynch myself? Bullshit, it's no different than the rest of you lynching me hoping I flip scum only to turn town. The only difference with the example game is nobody really genuinely thought I was scum, and I just took advantage of the quick RVS BW to make a move. We have all moved past RVS, and are voting on who we think is scummiest. Me threatening to self-hammer should have no effect AT ALL on the votes. Whether it's me or simply another person, the result is still the same, the flip is still the same, the amount of people lost is still the same. Denying the hammer is even neutral. On one hand I remove the possibility of a scum scummily hammering, but at the same time I'd also remove any scum chances of accusing a town hammerer.

I interupt myself to make another thing clear.

Saberwolf wrote:
Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO CLEAR ME. THIS IS ME SIMPLY RUBBING YOUR POOR SCUMHUNTING SKILLS IN YOUR FACE.

The reason being you always use the same strategies, the same policies, always using the gambler's fallacy, to try and excuse why this game is always different from the others. "Because we were wrong in every other game, we have to be right on this one, the odds are in our favour."

Bullshit.

Anyways, back to this.

ISO 13: Lynx reads something that he doesn't understand. His solution: he votes me for it. That's simply all this vote is about.

ISO 15: finally says something about someone other than me. Wonders why MR is waiting for me to get lynched instead of scumhunting [quite ironic, as lynx is more tunneling than anything. The only times it's not one me is when he tells someone that their defence of me sucks, or that the accusations of MC sucks, but otherwise has no good inputs at all scumhuntingwise. Seriously, find me something where he actually contributes to the game, other than bitching about how unhelpful I have been. He's like a broken record. The last thing to note is MR doesn't even get a vote or even a FoS from lynx.

ISO 16 and 19: This is real classic bullshit right here. First, he accuses me of being scum for hopping on the biggest competiting bandwagon to my own. Then, he calls me out as scum for hopping on the second biggest competiting bandwagon. Never mind the fact that not only was I after these guys for most of the game [MR more than MC], but both of them have scummy points against them that Lynx refuses to acknowledge. The kicker also is that those two were the only other bandwagons out there, what else am I supposed to do?


That concludes my bit on Lynx.

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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:09 am

Post by saberwolf »

Memorable Raindrops wrote:
saberwolf wrote:I'd hate to have you in lylo, you'd vote for the first person to get a vote, just because it isn't for you.

unvote; vote: MR
That is what I call fortune-telling. Your new reason to vote me (other than for voting for you and "taking advantage of a situation.)" is because you'd hate to have me in Lylo.
curiouskarmadog wrote:
so the key to avoiding your vote is to not be annoying? I cant really take anything from this statement, since you are new....but you cant play that newbie card all game.

Also, when you replay, please don’t reply in the quoted post…hard to read.

You told dank his play was distracting…what was it distracting from?
He is scummy because he has been hindering good discussion with his antics. His play distracts us from discussing "normally" as in good old fashioned discussion. Instead, he has told us all about his metas etc. and doesn't hesitate to bring them up. That's scummy, that he can't defend himself except by use of his metas and asking people "remember this game?"
Point number one: The comment and the vote are mutually exclusive. The comment is as face value, I'd really hate to have you in lylo. The vote is for admitting to taking advantage of a situation. It doesn't matter how anti-town you guys may find me, but if a thief tells an accountant that it's bad to alter the books, it doesn't make it any less true.

Point number two: I just mentioned it in my previous post. MY meta references are not meant to clear me, but to show what the others have done wrong in the past. You guys are meant to learn from this and try a new angle. Unfortunately for me, you guys are a little thick in the head.

I recall someone asking me do I like to aggrevate scum and town alike...well, I'm pissing you all off aren't I? So that's an obvious yes.
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:33 am

Post by saberwolf »

Another something to do because I'm bored and lonely and I'd like to kill myself but I'll just do this until I pass out from extreme exhaustion


Memorable Raindrops


I love players like you. You wanna know why? Because I hate to scumhunt, regardless of alignment. I'm more of a logic guy, using role claims and other clues to construct as many different scenarios as possible, and inform players how to optimally play the game to maximze town's chances of winning. [then they take over and scumhunt] So you can imagine my displeasure if I am ever forced to ISO somebody. Luckily for me, you only have nine posts in the entire game, making this very simple for me. :)

ISO 1: MR votes me and asks to see my self hammer. This is super anti-town, and [if MR is town] town should not try to be provoking a player into self hammering. This looks like scum trying to stir the pot to make an easy first day.

ISO 3: "THAT bet deal is making this game confusing (and annoying to read), and I'm patiently waiting for saber to be lynched. "

This is also very anti-town. Doing no scumhunting of her own, just hoping that the momentum is strong enough to carry on towards a mislynch. Never mind that there are four other scum to find if I was scum, she's content to watch it roll out.

ISO 4: Admits that the reason I'm being voted for is because I'm annoying. Annoying != scummy. Yet another anti-town move.

ISO 5: She admits to focusing on me, and claims to have no other scumreads on anybody else. This is a great way as scum to avoid responsibility for taking sides. With no other scumreads, she doesn't have to worry about backtracking or slipping up or worrying about bussing too far. The main reason she has no other leads though is because MR has done diddly squat.

ISO 6: Now MR claims that the reason she supports my lynch is because the odds are in our favour. WTF? "I think he's worth a lynch because, well, 5 out of the 12 players here are "scum--whether they be werewolves or mafia."" Last time I checked, 5/12 is not good odds. In fact, odds are in our favour that I'm town, so poor logic there.


"Annoying + distraction + hindered discussion + too much meta together equals good lynch"

Annoying != scumtell
Distraction...I'll give it to her, I have been a bit distracting.
Hindered Discussion = false. If anything, I've been the one keeping this game going. I sparked us out of RVS and have had the game flow moving just great. We have been discussing all kinds of points.
Meta != nulltell, but I can see where you're coming from. I already explained in last two posts reasons for bringing up meta.

Overall, nothing about how scummy I am for reasons A, B or C.

ISO 7: MR admits to being opportunistic and taking advantage of my bandwagon. MR also says I have better odds of flipping scum than anyone else. Truth of the matter is, I have the same theoretical odds as everyone else...5/12

That's the end of that. Overall, not a single pro-town thing to mention.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:52 am

Post by saberwolf »

Good things always come in threes...


Bigmc109


13 posts! not bad compared to MR. Let's see what we got here...

ISO 2: Doesn't like my playstyle, so he votes me. That's fair enough. It wasn't because I was annoying, like MR explained it. He actually stated that because of my intended play, he was voting me. I see that as a pressure vote, in hopes of changed playstyle. Fine by me.

ISO 3: Gets a little scummy, not only about not knowing he put me at L-1, but also that "he completely missed MR's vote". The only vote, might I add, that had any scumminess to it.

ISO 4:
"Now for some actual scum hunting. I'm not liking sabrewolf at all. In addition to the whole self-lynching thing, I don't like his two attacks. I think Lynx's posts have been very pro-town so far (see 77)
and MR was early enough in the BW to not seem scummy going for the easy target. Though I will admit I wouldn't mind the attack on MR so much if he hadn't posted since then, so it might be a nulltell.
"

A gem of a statement right here...let me translate that into scum talk for you:

Positions do matter on the bandwagon, and because MR was Xth instead of X+1th on it, she has to be town. This is my way of protecting her. However, just in case she screws things up and gets lynched over lurking or anything else, I will cover my ass and say that it could be a nulltell, giving myself a back door in case the shit hits the fan.

By the way, while MR did post since then, it's been nothing of actual help, and far too little to be considered real posting.

ISO 6: This does work in MC's favour. He stays consistant by saying his vote was a pressure vote, and that's fine by me. What I don't like is how he just vaguely says I've done some scummy things, but fails to point any of them out.

ISO 9: OMGUS's CKD and Dank for supporting me. Not the greatest move a town could do.

ISO 11: He does an ok job with point 1 of why I should be lynched. Point 2 however, is full of holes. He thinks my lynch would make great information. Chances are if I was scum, my buddies are just as likely to be bussing me as they are not to be on the wagon. Like I also said, the only lead you would have is CKD. However, I do see a bit of MR in his post. He says he want's to lynch me becasue I'm very anti-town. Then he goes to say I'm very scummy. Not once has he ever mentioned I'm scummy up to this point, and antitown != scummy. He also fails to provide reasons for me being scummy, but provides vague reasons with no backing. I OMGUSed the whole game? Provide quotes and string up a case, don't just say it and hope that other's will just take your word.

Overall, Better performance than MR, and it's close between him and lynx. He shows consistancy, but there are obvious holes in his accusations and ends to a means. He also provides no actual evidence, but rather just feeds on opinion and standpoints in the game. His ties to Lynx and MR is what makes me more thinking that he's scum than his actual gameplay though, although I get a small scumvibe from that too.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:09 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

lets make something clear...I dont support your play. it is bad as scum or town. I am looking for scum, and I think you are an easy target for them.
NO YOU'RE OVER DEFENSIVE
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:24 am

Post by Scott Brosius »

Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
Your case right here seems equally weak. You call out memorable raindrops for pursuing Saber based off playstyle, but you say you'd be fine with removing him for being a distraction. Isn't that essentially the same thing?

I'm sick of people excusing Saber's behavior and calling him town with nothing to show for it. Explain to me how you see him as town without claiming that no scum would play in this manner. That's certainly not true and should not give him a free pass.
My case is that if he was continuing to be anti-town and useless, then yes I would lynch him. The fact is that he is participating, yet MR is still pursuing the playstyle case. That is the difference. He is scumhunting yet MR is pursuing the distraction, useless, anti-town case which isn't applicable.
curiouskarmadog wrote:bottom line, saber's play is a null tell at best
This is what I have been trying to say in its simplest terms.
Budja wrote:Yeah, after that last post, I don't think a Saber lynch would be bad.

The good thing about this setup is regardless of Saber alignment, there are bound to be opportunistic wolf/scum on his wagon.

So yeah, MR or Saber.
This post seems really weak. There are going to be wolves and mafia on every wagon, they make up almost half the game. And you are apathetic who we vote as long as it's one of the leading wagons?
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:33 am

Post by ZEEnon »

Memorable Raindrops has requested replacement.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:01 am

Post by saberwolf »

ZEEnon wrote:
Memorable Raindrops has requested replacement.
Pfft. I knew my case was convincing, but for MR to just quit like that... :P
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:37 am

Post by dank »

Saberwolf's cases remind me of watching Glenn Beck.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:53 am

Post by saberwolf »

dank wrote:Saberwolf's cases remind me of watching Glenn Beck.
yeah.........um...you're gonna have to elaborate on that....I didn't type all of that just so that one person could make a one liner reference that I don't even understand...
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:58 am

Post by dank »

A one liner reference that you don't understand is basically all those three cases deserve.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:00 am

Post by saberwolf »

dank wrote:A one liner reference that you don't understand is basically all those three cases deserve.
:(

I'll just be over here in the corner then....speaking up only when prodded...
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:27 am

Post by hewitt »

curiouskarmadog wrote:lets make something clear...I dont support your play. it is bad as scum or town. I am looking for scum, and I think you are an easy target for them.
You're setting yourself up very nicely here so if saber is lynched and flips scum you come out looking just oh so pro-town out of it. Feels very...fake.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:01 am

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

So me, MR, and BigMC all are tied together because I asked you to provide a case against them? You've been blowing that out of proportion ever since it came up. I asked one of you to display the points against BigMc and none of you would step up ad do it. This is despite my consistent request for them. To say that I blatantly refused the points against either of these two is complete nonsense. All I asked was for you to lay them out. Which apparently took very much for you to do.

To say that we're voting you because we have to be right eventually about your gambits eventually is complete bull. I've only played one game with you where you played very differently in it while I was alive.

I'll ask again can we just lynch him already?
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:50 am

Post by Lowell »

FOS hewitt
. Aren't
you
voting saber? If so, isn't 239 a strange thing to say?
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:50 am

Post by hewitt »

Oh haha I meant if he is lynched and flips town.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:01 pm

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

Lowell wrote:
FOS hewitt
. Aren't
you
voting saber? If so, isn't 239 a strange thing to say?
Lowell, could you please state the reason you are currently voting BigMc. I've asked you, Saber, and Budja specifically. But you're the only one of the three still voting him.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:00 pm

Post by Budja »

@Lynx, I did answer you. Then I changed my vote.
Scott wrote: This post seems really weak. There are going to be wolves and mafia on every wagon, they make up almost half the game. And you are apathetic who we vote as long as it's one of the leading wagons?
No, I think BMC, MR, if scum, are a different faction to Saber because there vote were the most opportunistic. I am a bit apathetic as to which we lynch, which you probably gleaned from my post.

Also, I am willing to hammer Saber.
Either convince me not to or I will do so in my next post.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:08 pm

Post by hewitt »

Budja

I actually have a problem with YOU hammering saber because you've spent this whole game having nothing but multi-personality disorder in regards to saber and have spending a lot of time chastising and calling players who are voting saber scummy. You've been playing both sides this whole time and I think it's absolutely crap. But go ahead, flip-flop one more time, whatever.
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Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:07 am

Post by bigmc109 »

I think the fact that MR requested a replacement speaks volumes. He wasn't under that much pressure; a townie probably wouldn't have cracked that easily. I guess he was going after SW opportunistically after all.

Unvote, Vote: MR
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[b]Record: 2-1
[color=green]Town: 1-0[/color]
[color=red]Mafia: 1-1[/color]
Other: 0-0[/b]

[i][url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13846]Mini 951 - Prison Mafia[/url] needs [b]1 replacement[/b].[/i]
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:42 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

speaking of opportunistic.

obvious scum...only thing his asking for a replacement means is he is asking for a replacement.....anyone curious why, Big doesnt want to hear what MR's replacement has to say? He says he wants to lynch "x" because it will provide information, but when it comes to us getting more information...he is pushing a lynch on someone who isnt here.

can we lynch Bigmc now?..more to come later.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:29 am

Post by bigmc109 »

I have already heard what MR had to say, and while I don't think it was as scummy as what SW said, I think asking for a replacement while under pressure is a scumtell for a newbie. Just because someone replaces him doesn't change his alignment or what he said/did before. Why the hell would I go for an information lynch over a lynch that I now think will result in lynching scum?
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[b]Record: 2-1
[color=green]Town: 1-0[/color]
[color=red]Mafia: 1-1[/color]
Other: 0-0[/b]

[i][url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13846]Mini 951 - Prison Mafia[/url] needs [b]1 replacement[/b].[/i]
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:32 am

Post by bigmc109 »

Sorry, hit post too soon.

Do I think SW is scummy? Yes. Do I think MR was particularly scummy before he asked for a replacement? No, I had a null read on him. But the fact of the matter is he flaked as soon as he had a load of pressure on him, and that is scummier than SW's hot-and-cold play thus far.
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[b]Record: 2-1
[color=green]Town: 1-0[/color]
[color=red]Mafia: 1-1[/color]
Other: 0-0[/b]

[i][url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13846]Mini 951 - Prison Mafia[/url] needs [b]1 replacement[/b].[/i]

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