Open 185 v2.0: JK9 (Game Over)

[Chaco]

This game died when Saber self hammered.

Is Saber CSL?

No, first "attempted" run through.

[Trumpet of Doom]

kunkstar7 replaces drowmage. Please welcome him to the game! - ToD

Vote Count 2.1
kunkstar7 (1 == L-3) - mykonian

Not Voting (6): joe478, curiouskarmadog, Chaco, Qooq, kunkstar7, kyle99

4 votes are required to lynch, 3 at deadline.

[kunkstar7]

Seems like lurking is the worst enemy of Town around this site.

So far I've got FOS on Kyle99 and Joe87.

Kyle99 just seems like he is trying to hassle a lynch under the banner of "discussion".

Joe's asking to be roleblocked was stupid, unless there was something else important about him possibly.

One last thing that strikes me is how tajo insisted on the counterclaim, maybe looking for the other power roles?

[Trumpet of Doom]

hitogoroshi replaces joe478. - ToD

[mykonian]

kunkstar, you are going to have a lot of fun with CKD then. I think it wouldn't be the first time he lurked. Like your point about tajo, don't think I will easily read CKD, so the only logical conclusion:

vote CKD

[hitogoroshi]

Hey guys. /confirming it up.

This game seems like it's been equal parts lurking and calling out lurkers, so I'm gonna ISO each and every one of you trying to suck some delicious content-juice from this moldy orange of a game. This should probably be really quick because it's a short game.

[kunkstar7]

Because its not optymal. As you realize, not forcing a counterclaim will make us lose time and probably give more time for scum to think about the situation, more probs of messing with the claim, etc.

The ask for a counterclaim play is pretty much the optymal play in these situations. It either gets us a confirmed town we are about to lynch or we get a confirmed scumbag. If nobody had counterclaimed, csl would pretty much had survived the day, we would prob have lynched town and we would prob be in the same situation we are today.

If anything, something like a counterclaim would speed up the lynch process exponentially, like it has here. I guess I'm just not understanding your mentality. Paraphrasing from my point of view, you want the topic to be fully discussed, yet you propose a rather extreme idea that inspires a lynch whose logic you fully agree with.

those two things are not mutually exclusive. The best example is me not voting for csl even I think he is lying. I explained in my post that I would vote him after all the players expressed their opinions on the sitaution. If he is scum, as I strongly lean, we have another one to catch and Im pretty sure you dont have reads on all the players.

[/quote]

This sums up neatly what I see wrong with Tajo's call for a counter-claim. why would you want to speed up a lynch? It may have been a slow game but still every lynch must be thought through. This "optimal" play provided the Mafia with information on important roles to us, giving them a bonus in their nightkill. You asking for everyone to claim, namely your nag on Qoop for her claim, seems suspicious in my eyes. Why would you want *everyone* to claim? You might as well have sent the Role PM's to the mafia.

For this, I'm voting CKD (He replaced Tajo.).

Vote: curiouskarmadog

[hitogoroshi]

Hito's ISO-Spectacular

Chaco

Q: What do Chaco and United States President Barack Obama have in common?
A: Neither one has contributed to this game!

I'm not gonna be a hard-ass about this, because there is the V/LA and all. But, still, you haven't contributed and I'm gonna keep that in mind.

CSL

CSL's fake claim was probably the worst move a townie has made this year. This is an OPEN - it was guaranteed we had a jailkeeper, and CSL decided to out the jailkeeper...as a townie. I literally replaced into this game because I felt so bad for you guys (and because I got nk'd in one of my other games). It's like being one of those guys who cleans up litter on the side of the road, but the road is mafiascum and the litter is csl's decisions.

curiouskarmadog (and populartajo)

Tajo is looking pretty damn townie to me. His early fixation on kyle is kinda weird, though. Since I'm doing this iso by iso, we'll see if kyle deserved it.

Ginzkeyplatz

A causality of CSL's play. More kyle attacks. Man, I am looking forward to my kyle iso.

Joe478

Yeah, I am iso-ing myself. And poooot, that was worthless. Throws down a CSL vote (horray) and incorrectly understands what would confirm him as town. Ah well. Nothing out of old-me, I guess.

kunkstar7 (and drowmage)

Just kidding, drowmage did a single random vote and left. MORE kyle hate. And kunk, counterclaiming WAS actually the optimal play there. Well, technically not 'optimal', but with a town as scattered and lurky as this one there was probably no chance of lynching an un-CC'd CSL (there are sometimes ways where the town can get the feel of, he wasn't CC'd but he's still lying), it was the best here. The only reason it backfired is because CSL did something no townie should ever ever EVER do.

Kyle99

Finally! Let's see what the kyle fuss is all about.

This is textbook active lurking. Kyle's posting a lot but saying nothing. I would have a big problem with this, but - it's page six and this game is slow as hell. He's trying to drive discussion, and even though he's not saying anything it's not like there's a whole lot of gameplay he's ignoring.

mykonian

He's voting a lot and not saying much. In particular I don't like how he votes for a lurker, the lurker is replaced, and then he votes for a

different

lurker. I think my reaction can be best summed up as:

vote: mykonian

Qooq

I like just about everything Qooq has posted so far. (S)he's a bit too safey and cautious (as I am - but I'm working on it) but while that's noticeable in a big old fast game it's probably the right move in this one. I hope Qooq will get a bit more assertive as we get a bit more content, but still my most solid town read.

[kunkstar7]

Ok, that makes sense Hito.

Btw..what does iso stand for?

I agree with your Qoop town read though.

Lets assume you consider mykonian for certain mafia. Then who would you place as his partner?

[hitogoroshi]

ISO = isolation. It's when you go to the bottom and use 'display posts by...' to filter for a specific user.

And I've got nothing for scum buddies. There are no connections I'm basing a case off of - this is only page 6, and it's a page six with mostly non-content posts. I'm not even that happy voting at ALL when multiple players have basicially said nothing; but we also desperately need to get this game moving and so I picked the scummiest player I could find. I think it goes without saying I certainly don't want a lynch until everyone is fully in this game.

[kunkstar7]

That's something that bothered me about the CSL lynch, how readily he was voted off, so we definitely need contribution from the rest.
And thanks for that help.

[Qooq]

Hito: I'll go on record by saying I agree with the majority of your iso-analysis and have no major problems with it (thanks for replacing in by the way). I particularly like what you said about kyle. I agree he has actively lurked, although I must admit the game has been pretty dead. And when it has sped up, I controlled most of the dialogue. I really liked what you said here:

And I've got nothing for scum buddies. There are no connections I'm basing a case off of - this is only page 6, and it's a page six with mostly non-content posts. I'm not even that happy voting at ALL when multiple players have basicially said nothing; but we also desperately need to get this game moving and so I picked the scummiest player I could find. I think it goes without saying I certainly don't want a lynch until everyone is fully in this game.

I am not getting a definitive scum read either and that is making me nervous. Tajo (CKD) seems scummy to me because of the way the roleclaim turned out, but I think that is pretty unfair to him since I was reading him town before that. Hindsight is always 20/20 and while I don't agree it was the optimal play, I don't think asking for the roleclaim was a necessarily scummy play. Like I said when it happened, it was either going to be great or horrible.

FoS: mykonian

Mykonian flew onto my scumdar when he started aimlessly throwing his vote around. First he quickly voted for joe, by far the easiest target to jump at the start of day 2, with fallacious logic and quickly remanded it when I barely questioned his vote. Next he voted drowmage for lurking. Now his vote is on CKD because he is hard to read, even though he hasn't posted in this game at all. Inconsistent voting is anti-town. It makes one hard to read and as such, makes it hard to analyze both the person voting and the people who react towards that person's vote.

At this point though, I'm not really sure what to do. With people replacing in it's hard to go for a lurker lynch, especially when they can't really provide a good reason for the person lurking in the first place. I guess I would be down for a lurker lynch on principle, though. I'm guessing that with CSL basically screwing the town over it would be tempting to sit back and watch the town implode and not say anything. As cynical as this is going to sound though, I'm not sure that 'everyone getting active and posting' will really help much of anything. Obviously I'm for anything constructive but what are the replacements supposed to say?

"Sorry the other guy lurked, I'm not sure why..."
"Sorry my guy asked to be roleblocked for basically no reason..."
"Sorry the other guy asked for a roleclaim which destroyed the town..."

I'm all ears and pretty flexible at this point.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, that's the problem. There's really nothing for the replacements TO say about the past, and unfortunately there's no single lurker to gun for. As such, we just need to get the ball rolling - throw down some votes, talk theory, whatever it takes.

Also, Qooq:

And when it has sped up, I controlled most of the dialogue.

Could you explain this line a little more?

[kunkstar7]

I think she was referring to how she directed most of the thread. If you look through the posting, especially through the CSL campaign, you can see that she is thrwing ouit most of the real questioning and has most of the substance.

[Qooq]

Also, Qooq:

And when it has sped up, I controlled most of the dialogue.

Could you explain this line a little more?

I don't mean to let other people answer questions for me, but I did mean what kunkstar said. I replaced into a pretty inactive game around post 70 where it picked up because I played pretty aggro until the CSL lynch. It's been relatively quiet since.

[mykonian]

I am very happy to see that more people get here. I'm not really happy that I'm voted for not bringing up content. With some lurkers here, this is not weird, and the two people I really expected to come with an active town game, as they like to play town, did nothing: tajo and drowmage. The recent choice for CKD (tajo) is policy, and kunkstar's entrance was positive.

For the people who find me hard to read: it won't be the votes that will make that. The earlier it is in the day, the more flexible I will hop with my vote to the person I think scummiest in recent posts. During the day I usually get more sure, and I'll tunnel more.

But because of the rather rotten day one, where I could pull litte out, I'm basically searching again, and that partially explains my voting, the other part being that I like to vote.

and I haven't seen CKD yet

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, wanting to post but havent found time to even read yet...holiday season and all.....this game is my top priority to read and update.

[mykonian]

bump.

Guys, I am pretty much out of idea's. I have voted for someone replacing in (although the vote is justified), and there is absolutely no reaction. It is someone elses turn now.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Massprodding. Most of you are pretty close to the 72-hour mark. - ToD

[curiouskarmadog]

OK got some time to read the game….typing as reading.

Going into the game, I am curious as to why Day 1 ended so quickly. Hell, some RVS isn’t wrapped up in 5 pages. I also know reading that CSL, and GP are town.

Looks like this game has also suffered from replacements. Also, we are down our jailkeeper.

aaaaand

V/LA till monday

CSL is playing towny, not being it.

unvote vote CSL

this came on page one during the RVS stage. Only thing CSL did was unvote to avoid a quick lynch...explain how you feel CSL was not being town this early in the game.

+++
Page 2 a bunch of bitching about the slowness of the game….Cant believe no one has commented on the above quote…seems like a good place to start to me.

43, GP appears to be trying to get something started….throwing heat on Kyle, who is still bitching about the slowness of the game.

50,

confirm vote CSL

Seriously, first acting "towny" as you are unvoting (guess what, unvoting isn't towny, it is

playing

towny. Then, bandwagonning, to L-1, because?

I've got to admit, I am no fan of Kyle's play, but that I can play off more easily as newby play.

interesting post...more push on CSL...also noted link to Kyle...no one asked him his opinion of Kyle, but he felt it important to disapprove of his play, but throw in the newbie card to defend him...noted.

51, joe calls out mykonian vote (for CSL -1) and 52, mykonian defends with he is still scummy anyway (basically)….

At this point, money is on mykonian as being scum.

56,

reacting to prod

Since the deadline is only in 10 days, I think we should move towards a lynch. I dislike CSL's unvote-vote thingy that reeks of scum playing town, I dislike Kyle reasoning in a few post, I dislike tajo's lurking. But I dislike Drowmage's lurking even more, really hadn't expected that.

LOL, how is no one jumping up and down at this point in the game...first he wanted to lynch CSL because of his "-1" vote, now he wants to push for a lynch because the deadline is 10 days out??????.....bullshit meter is going off.

Since the deadline is only in 10 days, I think we should move towards a lynch. I dislike CSL's unvote-vote thingy that reeks of scum playing town, I dislike Kyle reasoning in a few post, I dislike tajo's lurking. But I dislike Drowmage's lurking even more, really hadn't expected that.

Any reason why you omitted purple princess from that lurker list?

good catch

67, Qooq replaces PP

68, dislike GP’s vote of CSL here…but GP flipped town (shrug)

69, Kyle’s quick vote of CSL looks scummy

76, after a couple FoSes and no conversation for the group, Qooq puts CSL at -1

CSL claims jailer? FAKE CLAIMS JAIL????

Qooq, unvotes

GP counter claims (which causes her death)

Well, I don’t need to read how this goes down….votes come after. I would have voted CSL too.

CSL, if you are reading this game dead…that was a fucking HORRIBLE FUCKING PLAY. There was no reason to fucking out the jailkeeper you keep your vanilla ass alive. Stick around after this game is done so I can belittle you somemore….or maybe you can explain why you felt it was a good pro-town play…if we lose, know that it is directly related to this fucked up play….god that makes me angry.

If I had read that before offering to replace…I would not have come into this game…no wonder pop replaced out.

Ok Day 2 starts.

Mykonion votes joe out of the gate

vote Joe

He must have known CSL or ginzk fakeclaimed, and by asking to be roleblocked, he made it seem like he had nothing to fear for. Indeed, he didn't have, he could let his companion make the kill.

Explain to me how any of this makes sense and is worth a vote. Both fucking claimed JK when the game only has two…one DID fake claim.

Oh and Kyle follows this line of thinking? Yeah thought so.

The only thing that is scummy about joe comment is that he appears to be directly the JK...That would be a poor play for JoeScum. The JK just said she wasnt going to use her ability. JoeScum would have just let it go. Why get the jailkeeper thinking about using her role if she already stated she wasnt going to use it? This attack by My is weak....

He must have known CSL or ginzk fakeclaimed, and by asking to be roleblocked, he made it seem like he had nothing to fear for. Indeed, he didn't have, he could let his companion make the kill.

One of them did fakeclaim, I seriously thought one of them was scum (CSL) so I thought if GinzkeyPlatz jailkept me then I would have been cleared and it would have been one more townie alive, unfortunately CSL was town.

aaaaand why would you want to be confirmed? Why would you want to look towny?

OMG, this is a serious question? After seeing CSL trying to look towny, being town, you are going to start THIS again?

LOL, I am getting votes now?

I have been busy…if I could post other current games you would see that. The only thing I really have been able to update is my modded game.


Ok that is the game…I cant believe that Mykonian hasn’t been lynched yet.

He is so obviously scum it hurts.

Vote mykonian.

His votes and attacked are weak, stretchy, dont make sense, and are down right scummy. The “you are not towny, you are just trying to look towny” thing was such a stretch it is amazing. And he is doing it again today. Now he is an advocate of a policy lynch of a lurker, in a game with so many lurker replacements and prods? He is even excusing his bad vote because he knows it is bad….you don’t think I am scummy, it is just policy. Bullshit. You just tried to get people to vote joe because you want us to believe you think he is scummy, but change your mind for a policy vote? You really are trying to throw anything against the wall to see what sticks.

There Mykonian…there is some content for you….going to keep that policy vote on me? Or do you now have a new reason to keep your vote on me?

[kunkstar7]

Wow, I find it really hard to not look at what CKD just said as making complete sense. The only thing I'm keeping in the back of my head is a possible bussing.

My question to you CKD, when you mention Kyle or Joe, are you calling them out as possible scumpartners, or just pointing out incidents where they do something scummy?

unvote, vote mykonian

.

[curiouskarmadog]

basically when I replace into a game...I type as a read, and make notes as I go.....that being said.

sort of getting a scum partner vibe from Kyle.

Joe was just a note, but I dont understand why My just let that drop (for no reason?)...maybe because the BW wast going anywhere...maybe partner (but doubting at this point)

[mykonian]

@CKD: saying in the start of the game you don't want a quicklynch at L-2 or L-3, is slightly overdoing it. It set off my scumdar.

Further, Kyle was quite popular, but I got the eager townie feel from him. As I saw, and see it, posting a lot got him a lot of (negative) attention. Because the bandwagon on him was forming, and I didn't like it, I wanted to tell everyone I was certainly not being found on there.

@ post 56: you are completely right. That was bullshit, and quite obviously so. The day really was stalling, and after massprod I posted overaggressively,

but it takes you to get any reaction. Of course you aren't going to go for a lynch directly after a massprod and with 10 days to go. But making things "serious" might give some serious discussion.

@ the joe vote: both the town fakeclaimer and the real JK were dead day 2. Only one weird thing was left: the person that asked to be jailkept. What was the towny incentive? Town doesn't need to be confirmed, but scum does want to look likely town. Joe, knowing that he and his partner would not be lynched after the counterclaim of Ginzk could have made sure their kill went through that way. There was scumincentive, so because of that the vote.

You seem to assume the fakeclaimer was still around: he was lynched, and was town.

[kyle99]

Mykonian seems suspicious, but I still think that Joe asking to be jailed seems suspicious. I also second the motion of CSL being a moron.

[hitogoroshi]

CKD, your posts are a nightmare to read, but 144 vindicated my town read.

Here's why I'm happiest when my vote on myko:

@ post 56: you are completely right. That was bullshit, and quite obviously so. The day really was stalling, and after massprod I posted overaggressively, but it takes you to get any reaction. Of course you aren't going to go for a lynch directly after a massprod and with 10 days to go. But making things "serious" might give some serious discussion.

Also, re: Joe asking to be jailed, I obviously am not privy to any understanding why he would do that. But the thing is, it's really just a newbie suggestion (being jailed doesn't prove a thing, unless you're a PR trying to confirm the jailkeeper claim - which is stupid, since ginz was a CC and it was virtually guaranteed that our real jailkeeper would be nked if the other one flipped not-jailkeeper, and anyway, it'd be more useful to investigate than confirm a jailkeeper.) I don't think it weights itself to newbie scum any more than it does newbie town - it's just a misunderstanding on what would confirm a townie.

And kyle, I gave you a pass for your active lurking because it at least meant you were posting. But now real things are happening and you need to have more than a sentence's worth of thought about them.