Open 189~Trouble@Warren State Mental Hosp (Over)

[Cat]

Mafia is not a game of logic and it is scummy to try to frame it as one.

Technically, it at least partially is. You have to, based on a mixture of tells and hunches, reason out the likeliest probable scum. Now, if you were to say "Mafia is not a game of only logic," I could agree with that.

I'm curious. Could you list the vets vs. the newer people, quickly? (Hint: Otto U. is an alt)

Well, OU's altiness is a twist, but I did think he was one of the newer people.

I guess for "veterans" I was mostly thinking JDodge, but I could see you and VPBaltar as seasoned enough. For newer people, Qooq seems to fit the bill, as well as cayke, merely because she doesn't play mafia that much.

And it is definitely 8:30 in the morning and i just woke up. Cat did get back to this >_>

I'm confused. I don't recall saying I'd get back to stuff I hadn't already gotten back to, and the above statement makes no sense.

On OU's supposedly obvtown post: There was one thing that struck me as it being scummy:

I feel Xdaamno needs some support, not more votes.

He said this before he gave he reasoning for not voting Xdaamno, which is pretty fishy anyway. It seems as though he's supporting Xdaamno in a rooting-for-the-underdog sort of way, not really like he had any material evidence behind his support.

I realised I forgot to put this game on my watched topics list, and stumbled across it while searching for another game. I hastily went into the game, and noticing a couple of names on the page before posting, I RVS voted the name that was easiest to remember and spell. I also read hastily the last bits of the game to get an idea of who is suspect, and to be honest I don't see that great of a case on Xdammno. I don't wish to be opportunistic and just come straight out of the gate with another vote on him. I need to see some definite cases before I make that move. Meta just doesn't cut it.

I don't like the description of how he made his first post in this game. If I did this, I would initially post "catching up, hold on" to avoid prods/replacement and then read through the whole thing before sharing my thoughts. The way OU did it seems like an exact description of what scum would do in this situation.

Why? I don't see the attacks falling along those lines at all actually.

This was before I realized OU was an alt. And I think I was imagining future scuffles, not the current ones.

As for citation on Xdaamno, most of the games I been with him in (as skitzer) he's almost always been a suspect from the beginning but usually manages to hang on a long time.

That's pretty much skitzer's MO, isn't it?

No no no no. Half the problem is that this is my first game as Cat and I sometimes forget to check on this one.

I don't know if someone could find my games via the mafiascum logs - I haven't played many lately - the only one in 2008/2009 I could find was this one:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0

Where I certainly remember having the same feeling, although I avoided being lynched for quite a while with a gambit.

I was in that game, and you were definitely suspicous.

I don't know if this fits in the time frame, but weren't you in Pikmin Mafia?

I am very aware, and have had great pleasure having you as a co-town in the past. I just think you're being very idiotic in your own scumhunting. Your current reason for calling me scum is based on something that never occured. I respect Vi's vote more than yours, because it's simply more of an encouragement to scumhunt more and I respect Vi for that and will respect Vi's wishes...eventually. For now I need to put more priority on this exam. I promise that when I have completed the exam and I return, I shall do a full sweep of the game and give my opinions and thoughts on everyone and everything to date. If you wish to leave any questions for me to answer between now and when I get back, I shall be more than happy to answer them.

I'm afraid your anonymity is getting in the way of the best environment for a successful lynch now. Especially that first sentence.

Well, two posts later, nvm. But I don't really care that it's saberwolf that much.

BTW i'm successful with an alt. TEEHEE!

*sigh* then Ottowolf breadcrumbed. I'm so sad.

SO:

My top suspect and a vote was to go to OU/saberwolf/Porochaz, but now with the breadcrumb I'm not going to. Instead,

Vote Xdaamno

because he's been acting just generally slightly scummy all game and I feel my vote need to be somewhere.

Hyl and populartajo: Why are you voting VP Baltar? Nothing in my reread gave even the slightest reason to vote that way.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Willingness to lynch for dislike of playstyle is anti-town.

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Anti-town =/= scummy.

[VP Baltar]

An abridged history of HowardRoark for your consideration:

1-confirm, immediately plays noob card
2-jokes about being called on noob card playing
3-random vote
4-questions the xdaamno wagon, seemingly not understanding it
5-votes xdaamno, accuses Qoog and tajo of trying to derail wagon, says a player could have town reads if they play together enough
6-answers my question, continues to have a theory debate over town reads with me
7-continues theory debate
8-still going
9-asks cat for "thoughts on anyone"
10-@Dizzy-what's the slip?
11-explains why he finds certain xdaamno posts scummy, which is better, but i'm not seeing scum motivation in a great deal of what he is saying.

Xdaamno's 60: Playing as town does not require "running through several layers of town thought."
Xdaamno's 77: Meta defenses are weak.
Xdaamno's 78: I guess this one could go either way. I was reading this with the taste of the others still in my mouth.
ADD post 151: Waffling. How is a post obvtown, but not that strongly?

Also says JD town read is because he hasn't done anything "anti-town"yet

12-apparently agrees with some contradiction JD is claiming to have pointed out (still waiting for explanation here)


That's it folks! Scum coasting outside of the fray if I have ever seen it. Vote now.

[JDodge]

Well, you're scum, so I think you have an unfair advantage at the town reads game.

Really? Why's that? I don't think many people could get confident reads by page 4.

...

Greatly disliking Baltar's reaction and I am disappointed in you all for not noticing this immediate policy 180.

What policy change is that? I still don't think town would have much for mentionable town reads by page 4 and Howard is still scum. Not seeing whatever you're getting at here.

You did not specify initially

town

reads, and furthermore it can be inferred that if a read in one direction can be obtained solidly that a read in the other direction should be as inferrable at said point. You realized your blatant hypocrisy and stated it to remove the issue. I'm not stupid.

VP wrote:
Playstyle lynches = scum tactic.


Bad play tactic, try again.

No, scum love to exploit playstyle lynches. Check any game that zwet or DGB or anyone with a different playstyle is in. When they are town, it is only a matter of time before scum come knocking for that easy mislynch.

And it is more often a poor playstyle tactic. The number of times around the block that I have been compared to you makes my word more informed than yours.

Unvote, vote: VP Baltar

Step it up, buddy.

huh?

Either you're scum or playing terribly. Step it up. Prove me wrong.

Or the explanation that actually makes sense is that he plans on getting his facts straight before jumping to conclusions.

You should really learn to read intent better.

Your intent was poor.

I don't think you know who you're dealing with this game.

Jump jump jump jump jump JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS

EVERYBODY DO THE JUMP

I don't even understand what you are trying to say here exactly.

Then learn to think and/or read.

That was certainly a lot of snarky comments in lieu of scumhunting JD. GJ.

F-

SEE ME AFTER CLASS

Enjoying JD's posts. I'm a little suspiscious because flooding the town with information is a scum tactic that iirc JD knows about, however

sure thing buddy i'll just ignore all the stuff that went on while i was away next time

he could have probably told his replacement about it in any case.

in any game i mod that would be a modkillable offense, just sayin

Actually, performing actions that are plausable scum moves does increase the chance of being scum. The fact that that possibility is being extended by a greater-than-you-would-expect amount is incriminating.

Swwwwwing and a miss.

No, the point is that the probability that it could be something affects how much it matters in the long run. The moonmen could be altering his brainwaves, which would make everything he says completely useless. That is not base to assume that we should just ignore everything he says.

still waiting on what you have to say in response to my posts vivivivivivi <3

I don't know if this fits in the time frame, but weren't you in Pikmin Mafia?

It's like a mini freaking reunion up in this bitch.

Would like more input from Qooq, Hyl to actually post the "more later", and for Izzy and Cay to actually start doing something.

Actually, instead of waiting, I am for now going to

unvote, vote: Cay

because if she doesn't care about the game then we might as well get rid of her now before numbers really start to rear their ugly head.

[tubby216]

****************vote count****************

xdaamno

~ (4)L-3,crywolfi,DizzyIzzy,Howard Roark,cat

VP Balter

~(2) L-5, populartajo,Hyl

crywolf(cayke)

~(2) L-5, Vi,Jdodge

Vi

~(1) L-6 Porochaz

porochaz

~ (1) L-6 ,xdaamno

Howard Roark

~(1) L-6, VP Balter

not voting

Qooq,

prodding Qooq

with 12 alive 7 votes to lynch

deadline 26 days remaining

[VP Baltar]

You did not specify initially town reads, and furthermore it can be inferred that if a read in one direction can be obtained solidly that a read in the other direction should be as inferrable at said point.

Actually, that's a very poor and baseless inference to make.

And it is more often a poor playstyle tactic. The number of times around the block that I have been compared to you makes my word more informed than yours.

Appeal to experience is a fallacy. Even noob-scum knows that playstyle mislynches are the easiest to execute. reference: Policy lynch thread currently in MD.

Either you're scum or playing terribly. Step it up. Prove me wrong.

Now, why would I ever say you're making snarky comments instead of scumhunting?

Then learn to think and/or read.

etc.

F-

SEE ME AFTER CLASS

etc.

What are your thoughts on HowardRoark btw?

[crywolf20084]

Actually, instead of waiting, I am for now going to unvote, vote: Cay because if she doesn't care about the game then we might as well get rid of her now before numbers really start to rear their ugly head.

Unvote and I'll care about this game on friday when i'm not studying for exams thanks.

[HowardRoark]

1-confirm, immediately plays noob card
2-jokes about being called on noob card playing
3-random vote
4-questions the xdaamno wagon, seemingly not understanding it
5-votes xdaamno, accuses Qoog and tajo of trying to derail wagon, says a player could have town reads if they play together enough
6-answers my question, continues to have a theory debate over town reads with me
7-continues theory debate
8-still going
9-asks cat for "thoughts on anyone"
10-@Dizzy-what's the slip?
11-explains why he finds certain xdaamno posts scummy, which is better, but i'm not seeing scum motivation in a great deal of what he is saying.
Also says JD town read is because he hasn't done anything "anti-town"yet
{snipped quote}
12-apparently agrees with some contradiction JD is claiming to have pointed out (still waiting for explanation here)

1 & 2: Not noob card play, but (apparently failed) attempts at humor.
3: OH NO!
4: Yup, that's what I did.
5: Ateempting to develop reads.
6-8: So, am I scum for the debate? Where does that put you?
9: I had nothing to work with concerning Cat.
10: I still don't see it, but apparently it will be revealed when the timing is right.
11: So we agree to disagree on Xdaamno. Yup, I've seen nothing from JDodge indicating scum.
12: I hope that you understand it now . . . even if you don't like it.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I don't see why you don't see it, all you need to do is read what I quoted, then read the post that explains the goddamn game and put two and two together to make four. The inability to do so is highly troubling, and anti-town.

[HowardRoark]

Ahhhh . . . got it.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Of course you did.

[Vi]

still waiting on what you have to say in response to my posts vivivivivivi <3

whywhywhywhyYwhy me in particular ^_____^

[JDodge]

And it is more often a poor playstyle tactic. The number of times around the block that I have been compared to you makes my word more informed than yours.

Appeal to experience is a fallacy. Even noob-scum knows that playstyle mislynches are the easiest to execute. reference: Policy lynch thread currently in MD.

Appeal to experience is only a fallacy if experience has no bearing on the matter at hand.

What are your thoughts on HowardRoark btw?

I am completely and utterly apathetic. I don't see anything that raises my interest.

Actually, instead of waiting, I am for now going to unvote, vote: Cay because if she doesn't care about the game then we might as well get rid of her now before numbers really start to rear their ugly head.

Unvote and I'll care about this game on friday when i'm not studying for exams thanks.

Not how it works. You can care about this game on Friday and then I'll unvote.

still waiting on what you have to say in response to my posts vivivivivivi <3

whywhywhywhyYwhy me in particular ^_____^

Because you saidsaidsaidsaidsaid you were waiting for the rest of my posts (>^_^)>

[VP Baltar]

Appeal to experience is only a fallacy if experience has no bearing on the matter at hand.

Or if you're completely wrong. Which you are, btw.

[VP Baltar]

Also, JD, do you think I have contributed more, less, or an equal amount to the game than the following players:

HowardRoark?
Hyl?
Cat?
Cayke?
tajo?
Izzy?
Qooq?

[JDodge]

Also, JD, do you think I have contributed more, less, or an equal amount to the game than the following players:

HowardRoark?
Hyl?
Cat?
Cayke?
tajo?
Izzy?
Qooq?

More to all.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "step it up" then. Could you clarify what you mean.

[JDodge]

Ok, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "step it up" then. Could you clarify what you mean.

I've answered your question quite clearly already.

Either you're scum or playing terribly. Step it up. Prove me wrong.

[VP Baltar]

less being vague would be good.

[Vi]

still waiting on what you have to say in response to my posts vivivivivivi <3

whywhywhywhyYwhy me in particular ^_____^

Because you saidsaidsaidsaidsaid you were waiting for the rest of my posts (>^_^)>

oh ok

I think your posts are garbage all the way down, but wanted to see what else you were going to do before saying anything.

Paradoxically I like the Cayke vote right now.

The two blind spots on my radar - Hyl and tajo - need to speak up. Nao.

[Cat]

JDodge: VP Baltar is right, saying you are being vague is an understatement though. I think that your inferring that he has a better meta than this; though it may be true, some examples would be lovely.

[populartajo]

Was going to post a post full of look, ma ima vry smrttt comments but I decided to post some random thoughts as I remember them frm my reread:

Decent votes: HowardRoak, Baltar is improving but still bothers me some. Qooq should also post more.

Unvote Vote: Howard.

Otto/wolf stops messing out with games is not novelty but majority of his posts give me a too agressive tone to be scum.


Actually I have a theory for cayke being town that relies in this post:

I think i found Daamno's scumbuddy. *points at Otto*

Just wanted to remind you who called otto scum first.

I'm not letting daamno off the hook just yet, but I am willing to lynch Otto/saber today.

My theory goes this way: if we assume otto is town, whcih is a reasonable assumption to make, why would caykescum be proud of being the first to vote someone she knows is town.

Yeah, yeah, decent scum could fake this, but, no offense, I dont think cayke is capable of doing this yet. It just seems more probable to me that cayke really thought otto was scum.

[VP Baltar]

Soooo....tajo has the idea. Where they hell are the rest of you?

[crywolf20084]

No offense taken Tajo. I know i'm not a great mafia player. I've had my games that were a blast and i did good in, but normally i'm pretty blind at reading people over the internet. >_>

In other news, if i don't post tomorrow (hanging out with my friend most of tomorrow) don't see me til sunday as i have xmas part 1 saturday.

Parts 2,3, and 4 are all being hosted at my house, from eve til the day after.

[tubby216]

************************

qooq

picked up their prod, will post in thread soon and is on a v/la status