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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 pm

Post by pablito »

SlySly wrote: Could you please describe 1 good reason why scum would use POV quickly and early to save a townie when they could serve their team better by easily passing it to one of their scumbuddies for later use in the case that one of their team ended up on the block?
Under the guise of working for the town, scum decides to pov a candidate that many see as pro-town. In a moment of confusion, scum then looks good for going against the hoh (whom many think is scum).

Don't forget that to get HoH, scum must look like they are acting in the town's interest as much as possible.

I think using the pov was paltry's misguided attempt to look better AND waste a pov when it was unnecessary, but still make it look like the pov was used in pro-town benefit.

Mostly, I think paltry used the pov to make himself look better, when it really wasn't used to the full benefit of the town.

I do not think that scum would bother pov their own scumbuddy unless they had support from the town. It makes things too obvious. I think scum are more likely to bus than appear obvious in this setup (2 scum teams plus the whole HoH thing)

In the first bb mafia, scum did nothing to indicate their own partners - did not send each other the pov, did not make a buddy hoh and put each other down. the place where bussing was less likely to occur was when it came to actual votes.
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:51 pm

Post by SlySly »

pablito wrote: I do not think that scum would bother pov their own scumbuddy unless they had support from the town.
I am not saying Llama is town but he gave his support to Paltry and Paltry immediately took advantage of that support by taking the unpressured kmd off the block.
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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 pm

Post by pablito »

That's a different thing though. I'm only speaking about the actual pov user. What you're describing is something that can be seen as scummy.
Sup, later.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:15 pm

Post by PaltryExcuse »

pablito wrote:
SlySly wrote: Could you please describe 1 good reason why scum would use POV quickly and early to save a townie when they could serve their team better by easily passing it to one of their scumbuddies for later use in the case that one of their team ended up on the block?
Under the guise of working for the town, scum decides to pov a candidate that many see as pro-town. In a moment of confusion, scum then looks good for going against the hoh (whom many think is scum).

Don't forget that to get HoH, scum must look like they are acting in the town's interest as much as possible.

I think using the pov was paltry's misguided attempt to look better AND waste a pov when it was unnecessary, but still make it look like the pov was used in pro-town benefit.

Mostly, I think paltry used the pov to make himself look better, when it really wasn't used to the full benefit of the town.

I do not think that scum would bother pov their own scumbuddy unless they had support from the town. It makes things too obvious. I think scum are more likely to bus than appear obvious in this setup (2 scum teams plus the whole HoH thing)

In the first bb mafia, scum did nothing to indicate their own partners - did not send each other the pov, did not make a buddy hoh and put each other down. the place where bussing was less likely to occur was when it came to actual votes.
At this point, it comes down to whether or not you believe my reasoning.
A) I said before the actual nominations that I would not like either of the nominees. For SensFan and kmd4390. So it's not a surprise I wouldn't have been happy with either nominee.
B) Thinking it's town vs. town, I veto the most pro-town in my mind, and the lynch that will give us less information.

I can't defend against the 'scum trying to look pro-town' but I will put forth the question of whether or not scum would go to such lengths so early in the game. Although pablito asked this question originally that started this discussion, I'm the one that dug it up and began it anew. Would scum put themselves into this position?
Did you think both were town? If not, why not try to get someone scummy on the block? If so, who?
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by SlySly »

pablito wrote:What you're describing is something that can be seen as scummy.
Yes, and a likely possibility.
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:33 pm

Post by bv310 »

I'm back, Baby!

Also,
SlySly wrote:
Mr Finch wrote: I am glad that Saber was banned.
QFT. Changing the course of games by possibly disregarding your win condition over an avatar bet is uncool to say the least.
Double agreed.
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:43 pm

Post by pablito »

welcome back bv. I'm sure you've already got a backlog of things you want to update us on. Can't wait for your insight.
Sup, later.
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:51 pm

Post by bv310 »

ani wrote:Out of kmd/Sens :Sens. Kmd wasb't acting scumym and replacing out because of bad players is a bad move, and I sonsider it scummy.

Out of bv310/hewitt: bv310. Hewitt looked way more townie, and seemed more helpful overall.
Seeing as Sens and Hewitt are the same person, what is it that changed your mind from scum to town?
SlySly wrote:If I thought Llama would have been voted out over hewitt, he would have been nominated. Since I knew he wouldn't, I went with who he suggested be in power.
Why not nominate both of them? Putting up Sens for trying to flake and pouting doesn't make much sense.
SlySly wrote:Smells a little fishy to me with all the talk you had been doing about POV right before I got HoH. Did the POV burn your hand? It seemed you couldn't wait to get rid of it.
For someone who's so keen on pointing out thew tunneling in others, why are you so deadset on Paltry? (I don't see it as tunneling in this case, since you are at least raising mild concerns against others)
PaltryExcuse wrote:Yep. It is. But the main point of this is: What reason would I have for playing that way? I.E. Pretending I didn't have the PoV and then after you get HoH saying I have PoV. If you can answer this at any point, that'd be awesome.
I can see how playing that way could be advantageous. If you can draw out a falseclaim or even a hint at one, like Saber seemed to be implying, then you could save it and pass it on, OR use it in order to make a case against the person, as you are doing now.


I'm going to make an effort towards keeping the meta to a minimum between me/DisCode, and me/Saber, just to keep the game fair, but I can tell you that the reason I picked Hewitt for HoH is for the same reasons that have been said above: He is the most pro-town and scumhunting player in this game so far.
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by bv310 »

Also, I changed avatars, in case you guys are being confused at all.
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:04 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

bv310 wrote:
ani wrote:Out of kmd/Sens :Sens. Kmd wasb't acting scumym and replacing out because of bad players is a bad move, and I sonsider it scummy.

Out of bv310/hewitt: bv310. Hewitt looked way more townie, and seemed more helpful overall.
Seeing as Sens and Hewitt are the same person, what is it that changed your mind from scum to town?
You didn't do much for any reason. hewitt seemed to actually help.
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:23 pm

Post by SlySly »

bv310 wrote:
SlySly wrote:If I thought Llama would have been voted out over hewitt, he would have been nominated. Since I knew he wouldn't, I went with who he suggested be in power.
Why not nominate both of them? Putting up Sens for trying to flake and pouting doesn't make much sense.
I'm not sure I follow you here. I put kmd and Sens up because I thought they were both scum. Paltry took kmd off the block after Llama gave Paltry support for the idea. I wanted to put Paltry up at that point because I felt he was using POV to get his scumbuddy off the block but couldn't since he was the POV user. hewitt had replaced in and had started sounding very townish so I no longer wanted him evicted. I wanted Llama evicted as I felt he could be scum due to the Paltry support, but the sense I was getting from everyone else was that hewitt would be evicted against Llama so I put up DisCode since Llama had suggested him as HoH.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:30 pm

Post by bv310 »

Ok. The way I read it before was that you wanted to get rid of Sens and put up KMD as a "worst-case" lynch. I didn't get that same feeling about Llama as you though. I think he would have gotten the evict over Hewitt.
animorpherv1 wrote:
bv310 wrote:
ani wrote:Out of kmd/Sens :Sens. Kmd wasb't acting scumym and replacing out because of bad players is a bad move, and I sonsider it scummy.

Out of bv310/hewitt: bv310. Hewitt looked way more townie, and seemed more helpful overall.
Seeing as Sens and Hewitt are the same person, what is it that changed your mind from scum to town?
You didn't do much for any reason. hewitt seemed to actually help.
I didn't mean between me and Hewitt, I meant what changed your mind about his (Hewitt's) alignment, when you said that you found Sens scummy?
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 pm

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bv310 wrote:Ok. The way I read it before was that you wanted to get rid of Sens and put up KMD as a "worst-case" lynch.
I thought I made it pretty clear I wanted kmd evicted.
SlySly wrote: 1.
nominate: kmd

2.
nominate: Sens


zwet and saber are easy enough targets for the next HoH.
kmd is the person I feel is the craftiest scum, so I want to put him up against someone that I feel gives him the best shot at being evicted.
SlySly wrote:
PaltryExcuse wrote: If kmd was not going to be voted out, and it was obvious, why did you put him up? It seems like you are guaranteeing a Sens lynch instead of the kmd one you claim to want.

I wanted kmd out.
Between, kmd and Sens, both of which I believe to be scum, I think kmd is a far stronger player. As I said before, I would put up 2 people I think are scum.
I would prefer to knock out the strongest scum player possible. In this situation, I think that is kmd.

-----------------------------------------------------
bv310 wrote: I think he would have gotten the evict over Hewitt.
Can you point out what gave you that idea? I sensed no support for a Llama eviction.
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:59 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

pablito wrote:Right now Sly and Paltry are top suspects, but Sironigous shouldn't be getting a free pass either.

I'm also feeling a bit of a lack of punch coming from Crazy. Kinda coasting.
Elaborate instead of just throwing names out. (Hypocritical of me, I know, but I'd like to know if you have reasons for suspecting those players)
SlySly wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote: How is it a scumtell that I agreed with you?
I am just reminding everyone that you "really liked" that pick that everyone else hated and were very quick to vote DisCode out with authority.
Yeah, I'll be first to admit I was happy to see your choice. But if you'd leave my quote of you instead of cutting it out like you did, you clearly used it as a reason to suspect me. My question was why.
SlySly wrote: Time will tell. Seems like we have been here before. Seen any Bigfoot tracks?
Look. Meta is great, don't get me wrong. But the major flaw is that the meta "tell" you have on me (being a "good" scum player) labels me as scum in any game I play with you.
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:22 pm

Post by SlySly »

Kmd4390 wrote: Yeah, I'll be first to admit I was happy to see your choice. But if you'd leave my quote of you instead of cutting it out like you did, you clearly used it as a reason to suspect me. My question was why.
Look, I didn't change the meaning of what you said. I just took the part that I was responding to and responded to it. I clearly already suspected you before that. I didn't use it as a reason to suspect you, I pointed it out so others could see the truth about your position on one certain topic. Which you aren't arguing.
Kmd4390 wrote:
SlySly wrote: Time will tell. Seems like we have been here before. Seen any Bigfoot tracks?
Look. Meta is great, don't get me wrong. But the major flaw is that the meta "tell" you have on me (being a "good" scum player) labels me as scum in any game I play with you.
Maybe initially, meta played a bigger part of my suspicion toward you but very little of my suspicion on you in this game now comes from that game. That doesn't mean I don't see extreme similarities in your play in this game to your play in that game.
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:41 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Ok, but why do you see it as a point against me that I agreed with you? Why is this question so hard to answer?

Your points against me were the "meta" and connections. If you are downplaying the DisCode agreement and the meta, your main point against me is actions of other players who have yet to flip scum.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:53 pm

Post by SlySly »

Kmd4390 wrote: Ok, but why do you see it as a point against me that I agreed with you? Why is this question so hard to answer?
It's not hard to answer. If I am to be scrutinized for my pick of DisCode, I feel you should be looked at for that pick too as you stated you "really liked" the pick. I know I am the one who put DisCode up, but you are the only one that so openly agreed with the pick. Some have said me putting DisCode up was scummy. If they truly believe that, they should be looking at you too. You knew I was very suspicious of you, Paltry and Llama and that I had hinted at putting Llama up. You could have stated your like for the DisCode pick because you knew I had put someone up that wasn't in your faction.
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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:55 pm

Post by Snow_Bunny »

Ah, I'm way too behind. My connection is still giving me problems, but I'll try to catch up before you leave me even more behind.
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:58 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Sly, you do realize that you making an "If I am scum, so is Kmd! Nom him instead!" argument there, right? Basically, you have to admit to being scum before you can make the point that I did what you did and must be scum for it.
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:10 pm

Post by SlySly »

Kmd4390 wrote:Sly, you do realize that you making an "If I am scum, so is Kmd! Nom him instead!" argument there, right? Basically, you have to admit to being scum before you can make the point that I did what you did and must be scum for it.
No, more accurate would be, if I am to be considered scummy for the DisCode nomination, kmd should be as well. That is different than "If I am scum, so is Kmd!" I was just HoH and I am sure that I have been hammered by both scum and town. I'm sure some town might think I am scum due to the influence of the opportunistic and misleading things the scum have said about me while being the easy HoH target.
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:11 pm

Post by SlySly »

kmd, I stated why I put DisCode up. Could you share with everyone why you liked the pick?
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:21 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

So suspecting DisCode is a scumtell against me and a nulltell against you? Why?

As for my reasons,
A)Didn't like most of what he said
B)Heavily lurkied (which later meant flaking, so I was wrong there, but meh)
C)Saw two players appear to connect themselves to him (See? I wait for the flip before sharing connections I see)
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:33 pm

Post by Snow_Bunny »

Ok, I'm starting to read D2, and I still think Sly should be evicted asap. I don't get where is he drawing his reads from. I also don't like his AtE that "he's an easy target". You acted scummy, and now you must pay for that.

For now, I
Vote: Sly
. I really don't care much for the other nominate, as I want Sly evicted.
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:19 pm

Post by SlySly »

Kmd4390 wrote: So suspecting DisCode is a scumtell against me and a nulltell against you? Why?
That is not what I said. Some consider me scummy for putting up DisCode. If that is the basis of their suspicion against me, those same players should consider you scummy for your approval of the DisCode pick.
Kmd4390 wrote: As for my reasons...
C)Saw two players appear to connect themselves to him
Which 2 players did you see connecting to him and how?

-----------------------------------
snow_bunny wrote: You acted scummy, and now you must pay for that.
How exactly did I act scummy?
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:18 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Snow, if Sly were to have the veto, who would you want evicted? If you were HoH, who would you evict? What about if you were HoH and Sly claimed to have the veto?

-------------

Sly, you are making no sense about DisCode.

There's no point discussing connections I saw to a player who has flipped town. Those connections have already been proven wrong.
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