Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[SlySly]

Sly, you are making no sense about DisCode.

My thoughts about you and the DisCode pick make perfect sense.

There's no point discussing connections I saw to a player who has flipped town. Those connections have already been proven wrong.

You should have shared those thought when I was HoH and asking for nomination reasoning. Withholding information is a scum tell.

[Kmd4390]

My thoughts about you and the DisCode pick make perfect sense.

Not really. This seems to be your thought process:
-You nominated DisCode
-I liked the choice and voted him over Hewitt
-People called you scummy for your nomination
-I should ALSO be considered scummy for agreeing with it.

If I were to be considered scummy for agreeing with your choice, shouldn't your choice be considered scummy first? For the point to be accurate against me, wouldn't it have to be accurate against you first? For me to be scum based on this point, wouldn't you have to be scum first?

There's no point discussing connections I saw to a player who has flipped town. Those connections have already been proven wrong.

You should have shared those thought when I was HoH and asking for nomination reasoning. Withholding information is a scum tell.

It's not withholding information (which I don't consider a scumtell) if there is no information to be withholding. I didn't see the other two players as being all that scummy on their own, so I wouldn't have wanted them nominated before DisCode anyway. So there was no point going into it.

[SlySly]

My thoughts about you and the DisCode pick make perfect sense.

Not really. This seems to be your thought process:
-You nominated DisCode
-I liked the choice and voted him over Hewitt
-People called you scummy for your nomination
-I should ALSO be considered scummy for agreeing with it.

Yep, see it makes perfect sense. You did fail to point out how you made your vote without hesitation or reason though, which adds to the scumminess of your support for a nomination that ultimately flipped town.

If I were to be considered scummy for agreeing with your choice, shouldn't your choice be considered scummy first? For the point to be accurate against me, wouldn't it have to be accurate against you first? For me to be scum based on this point, wouldn't you have to be scum first?

If my nomination of DisCode is to be considered scummy, the scumminess of anyone supporting that nomination should be looked into as well. Someone being scummy in another's eyes does not make them scum.

[animorpherv1]

Sly, your maing no sense in your nominations. Let me see if I'm right:

You nomm'ed DisCode.
Everyone thinks he's scummy over Hewitt
Suddenly 9 People are scummy?

[animorpherv1]

Ok. The way I read it before was that you wanted to get rid of Sens and put up KMD as a "worst-case" lynch. I didn't get that same feeling about Llama as you though. I think he would have gotten the evict over Hewitt.

Out of kmd/Sens :Sens. Kmd wasb't acting scumym and replacing out because of bad players is a bad move, and I sonsider it scummy.

Out of bv310/hewitt: bv310. Hewitt looked way more townie, and seemed more helpful overall.

Seeing as Sens and Hewitt are the same person, what is it that changed your mind from scum to town?

You didn't do much for any reason. hewitt seemed to actually help.

I didn't mean between me and Hewitt, I meant what changed your mind about his (Hewitt's) alignment, when you said that you found Sens scummy?

FFFFFF. Sens I thought would help (at the beginning) but turned out to be a big pain, which screwed over the town. That made me consider him as scum. Hewitt did none of that.

[SlySly]

Sly, your maing no sense in your nominations. Let me see if I'm right:

You nomm'ed DisCode.
Everyone thinks he's scummy over Hewitt
Suddenly 9 People are scummy?

Not even close.

I nom'd DisCode.
kmd literally stated he liked the nomination and voted for DisCode quickly and without stating a reason for his like of the pick.
No one else stated that they liked the DisCode pick, but they did have to vote for someone. Having to vote for someone is far different than stating agreement with the pick and voting it without stating any reason.

You say "Everyone thinks he's scummy over Hewitt". Can you please quote everyone that said DisCode was scummy or stated that they agreed with my pick after I nominated him?

[Kmd4390]

Yep, see it makes perfect sense. You did fail to point out how you made your vote without hesitation or reason though, which adds to the scumminess of your support for a nomination that ultimately flipped town.

Hmm. Do I vote the player I think could be scum or one of my most obvtown reads in the entire game? Tough choice. You're right, I should have hesitated to make that decision. (Note the sarcasm)

If my nomination of DisCode is to be considered scummy, the scumminess of anyone supporting that nomination should be looked into as well. Someone being scummy in another's eyes does not make them scum.

I just think it's weird that rather than defend the point, you are basically saying that I should be seen as scummy for the same reasons.

FFFFFF. Sens I thought would help (at the beginning) but turned out to be a big pain, which screwed over the town. That made me consider him as scum. Hewitt did none of that.

.........

Sens and Hewitt share a role PM. If Sens was scum, Hewitt is scum.

[animorpherv1]

Yep, see it makes perfect sense. You did fail to point out how you made your vote without hesitation or reason though, which adds to the scumminess of your support for a nomination that ultimately flipped town.

Hmm. Do I vote the player I think could be scum or one of my most obvtown reads in the entire game? Tough choice. You're right, I should have hesitated to make that decision. (Note the sarcasm)

If my nomination of DisCode is to be considered scummy, the scumminess of anyone supporting that nomination should be looked into as well. Someone being scummy in another's eyes does not make them scum.

I just think it's weird that rather than defend the point, you are basically saying that I should be seen as scummy for the same reasons.

FFFFFF. Sens I thought would help (at the beginning) but turned out to be a big pain, which screwed over the town. That made me consider him as scum. Hewitt did none of that.

.........

Sens and Hewitt share a role PM. If Sens was scum, Hewitt is scum.

That was my first opinion. Don't let him off the hook. After reading his 1st post, I went "Oh wow. Didn't expect that. That was good." And my opinion hasnt changed yet.

[SlySly]

Hmm. Do I vote the player I think could be scum or one of my most obvtown reads in the entire game?

One of your most obvtown reads? You are teetering now. How come in the same post where you voted DisCode without reason or hesitation did you state that you were only "leaning slightly town" on hewitt?

When you replace a player, you take responsibility for any tells that player gave off.

I'm still leaning slightly town on you and some of that comes from Sens.

That's just the proper way to look at the game.

---------------------------------------

I just think it's weird that rather than defend the point, you are basically saying that I should be seen as scummy for the same reasons.

It is really pretty simple, if you are going to consider someone scummy for a stance, you should consider anyone else that takes or agrees with that same stance scummy too.

[pablito]

I hope Kast comes back and contributes.

Also I actually would like snowbunny to care to nominate a second person. I think snow bunny has read some players and has contributed some, so I would like to see her put more effort into helping search out others. I get that she wants Sly gone, but a lot of people are going that route, and I think we need to see more of everyone's secondary suspects.

[Kast]

I also note that Kast has not done much more that zwet to participate and convince us he's not scum either

Wth?

I joined the game on Monday and caught up and filled in my thoughts throughout Monday and Tuesday. Someone's trying for easy targets...

@Paltry/Saber-
Aside from using the PoV prematurely (D1), I don't see the problems that are being raised. Saber clearly allowed the town to mistakenly believe that he had PoV until Paltry publicly revealed it. It never looked like Saber protected himself from a nomination as a result of allowing that confusion to exist, so it really doesn't look like a big issue. It seems like Sly (and possibly his buddies) are trying to use this to distract from the imminent Sly lynch. Let's not let that happen.

@Sly-

If you think the quick and early use of it is suspicious, that would have to make the user and the saved person suspicious.

Fail. The "saved" person only matters if that person was actually saved. KMD was in no danger of being lynched, so he clearly was not saved. The only person who can be considered "saved" is Hewitt. From context, you clearly are NOT referring to Paltry saving Hewitt as a negative or scum indicative event.

[SlySly]

@Sly-

If you think the quick and early use of it is suspicious, that would have to make the user and the saved person suspicious.

Fail. The "saved" person only matters if that person was actually saved. KMD was in no danger of being lynched, so he clearly was not saved. The only person who can be considered "saved" is Hewitt. From context, you clearly are NOT referring to Paltry saving Hewitt as a negative or scum indicative event.

Excuse me!! Semantics, semantics, semantics!!!! I think it was perfectly clear what I meant.

In my statement, "saved person" = "person taken off the block". Better?

[bv310]

^Significantly easier for me, if that makes you feel any better.

Also, I'd really like Sironigous to come back in here. I haven't seen a good post from him/her in ages.

[Crazy]

Welcome back, bv.

I'll post tomorrow; it's too late now.

[hewitt]

I also note that Kast has not done much more that zwet to participate and convince us he's not scum either.

I would agree with this statement.

Ok. The way I read it before was that you wanted to get rid of Sens and put up KMD as a "worst-case" lynch. I didn't get that same feeling about Llama as you though. I think he would have gotten the evict over Hewitt.

I think me being a tiny bit paranoid about being evicted might've contributed to that. To me it seemed like I was definitely in trouble if Llama was put on the block and I would've felt much more comfortable against saber or zwets so I definitely tried to advertise that as much as possible. That might have been the most pro-floater thing to do but I figured to save a floater I have to get somebody else on the block.

Ah, I'm way too behind. My connection is still giving me problems, but I'll try to catch up before you leave me even more behind.

On my list...

Ok, I'm starting to read D2, and I still think Sly should be evicted asap. I don't get where is he drawing his reads from. I also don't like his AtE that "he's an easy target". You acted scummy, and now you must pay for that.

For now, I

Vote: Sly

. I really don't care much for the other nominate, as I want Sly evicted.

Might as well vote yourself then.

Also I actually would like snowbunny to care to nominate a second person. I think snow bunny has read some players and has contributed some, so I would like to see her put more effort into helping search out others. I get that she wants Sly gone, but a lot of people are going that route, and I think we need to see more of everyone's secondary suspects.

I would like you to point out where Snow_Bunny has done any contributions. You are now the second player, after Kmd, to kind of prod Snow_Bunny along like "come on SB...you're making yourself look bad..."

My thoughts on the PoV being used, I want to know why Paltry thought Sly would then turn around and nominate someone who he wanted evicted, because that's the only reason why I could see anyone using the PoV. And on Week 1? I really don't like that at all. I'm going to make three groups of four, just for everybody's reference. Right now the top group are the players who I'm most likely not even going to consider nominating, the middle four are the players who I wouldn't rule out nominating but most likely not going to, and the bottom four are the players who I'm debating about nominating the most. Each group is in no particular order, alphabetical.

Kmd
Llama
Mr Finch
pablito

bv310
Crazy
Kast
Paltry

animorpherv
Sironigous
SlySly
Snow_Bunny

[Kmd4390]

One of your most obvtown reads? You are teetering now. How come in the same post where you voted DisCode without reason or hesitation did you state that you were only "leaning slightly town" on hewitt?

Meh. Had an obvtown read on Sens while he was here. His ragequit was a slight scumtell based on meta. Hewitt's play has been more obvtown. Overall, I'm saying obvtown.

It is really pretty simple, if you are going to consider someone scummy for a stance, you should consider anyone else that takes or agrees with that same stance scummy too.

So you are saying that I am scummy for the SAME reasons that you are scummy. You can NOT make this point without calling yourself scummy first.

-----------------

Hewitt, I like your nom list. I'd choose Animorph and Snow from that list.

[SlySly]

So you are saying that I am scummy for the SAME reasons that you are scummy. You can NOT make this point without calling yourself scummy first.

Others have called me scummy for it already. If they feel I am scummy for it, I feel obligated to point out your support of the same thing they are calling me scummy for. Twist it all you want. It doesn't change anything.

[Kmd4390]

So you are saying that I am scummy for the SAME reasons that you are scummy. You can NOT make this point without calling yourself scummy first.

Others have called me scummy for it already. If they feel I am scummy for it, I feel obligated to point out your support of the same thing they are calling me scummy for. Twist it all you want. It doesn't change anything.

I'm not twisting a thing. If I am scummy for suspecting DisCode, you are scummy for it. And you are using it as a point against me. To make this point, you have to admit to your own scuminess.

I'm done arguing with a brick wall though. I'm sure everyone else sees the point I am making and there is no point trying to convince you because you are stuck on the idea that I am scum and I can't change your mind.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not twisting a thing

Ok, I lied. I'm twisting my nipples.

[LlamaFluff]

I actually slightly prefer ani lynch-evict to a Sly one at this point. What went down from him regarding Sens is really just mindblowing to read over. As soon as Sens snapped, ani went from mildly buddying to him to going all out wanting him lynched for very poor reasoning.

This was the "case" on Sens according to ani

@Crazy:

I find that replacing out of games is a bad habit for scum, when noone is listeneing to them. I would never do that, and I'd advise everyone else to do the same. And, just in case you haven't noticed, what Sens is doing is either really childish, or scummy, and he deserves to die because of both.

Why is childish lynch worthy?

ruining the spirit of the game. Making it less fun, difficult to read that person and difficult to think of connections when there bitching at everyone.

Why is replacing out lynch worthy?

Same as above, without the last one. With the exception of being too busy to play, becaus it's actually a good reason. Also, replacing out in a game with 1 week deadlines (like this) makes it tough on everyone else.

While I still support a lynch of sly, I think that ani is more likely scum, and would like to see him up more. Preferably WITH sly so two high ranking suspects go up for vote information, but ani is more important then sly to me right now.

[hewitt]

See I'd like to see animorpherv get evicted because I think he's an anti-town unhelpful player. But it sounds like you'd like to see him get evicted because you think he was buddying up to SensFan, who is now me. And unless animorpherv was attempting to buddy up to a floater (which I'm not sure if he's smart enough to do) an animorpherv nomination/eviction for THAT reason does not make sense to me.

[pablito]

I actually like that bottom list of 4 a lot.

While I've been on paltry's case a lot today, I can see that he has a clear reason for doing what he did. The big difference is our viewpoints on optimal use of pov.

And I change viewpoints on slysly a lot. Seems scummy, but sometimes it's just so out there, I'm thinking it's just being extremely off than acting on advantage for a scum team.

As for that question about snowbunny, honestly, I'm not sure it's real contributions made so far. But I wanted to say it in a way that will coax and encourage snowbunny to share more. Because right now I think snowbunny seems to have a bit of superficial suspicions and hasn't been looking at a lot of big picture things. And I think snowbunny needs to share thoughts on everyone, but I'll settle for finding out at least a second nominee right now with good justification.

And I want sironigous to come back. I suspect sironigous still more than snowbunny.

[SlySly]

If I am scummy for suspecting DisCode, you are scummy for it.

If I am scummy for nominating DisCode, you are scummy for whole-heartedly agreeing with the nomination.

I'm done arguing with a brick wall though.

I was going to say the exact same thing. I feel this discussion has ran its course.

--------------------------------
@everyone
This group of players sure doesn't like to help suggest nominees and give reasons for those suggestions to help the HoH. Am I the only one noticing this?

[hewitt]

As for that question about snowbunny, honestly, I'm not sure it's real contributions made so far. But I wanted to say it in a way that will coax and encourage snowbunny to share more. Because right now I think snowbunny seems to have a bit of superficial suspicions and hasn't been looking at a lot of big picture things. And I think snowbunny needs to share thoughts on everyone, but I'll settle for finding out at least a second nominee right now with good justification

Both Snow_Bunny and Sironigous have a lot to answer too. I think they're both trying to fly right under the radar and I'm not okay with that. If they do not get in here and start contributing I will seriously consider nominating one if not both of them. All four at the bottom are in equal contention for being nominated.

@everyone
This group of players sure doesn't like to help suggest nominees and give reasons for those suggestions to help the HoH. Am I the only one noticing this?

All those who throw out nomination suggestions without giving reasons why are being thrown out, I'm not even considering them. This includes...

Ok, I'm starting to read D2, and I still think Sly should be evicted asap. I don't get where is he drawing his reads from. I also don't like his AtE that "he's an easy target". You acted scummy, and now you must pay for that.

For now, I

Vote: Sly

. I really don't care much for the other nominate, as I want Sly evicted.

I didn't read the last page yet, but my nominations would be (as I've said before)...

Vote: SlySly

Vote: animorpherv1

[Snow_Bunny]

Snow, if Sly were to have the veto, who would you want evicted? If you were HoH, who would you evict? What about if you were HoH and Sly claimed to have the veto?

If I had to pick a second, I'd pick Ani. If I couldn't pick Sly (which would be a total shame), I'd go with Ani and Sir.