Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[Mr Finch]

Snow, if Sly were to have the veto, who would you want evicted? If you were HoH, who would you evict? What about if you were HoH and Sly claimed to have the veto?

If I had to pick a second, I'd pick Ani. If I couldn't pick Sly (which would be a total shame), I'd go with Ani and Sir.

Why?

[Snow_Bunny]

Sir for the reasons stated on D1. Ani for the points others have brought up.

[hewitt]

That's not good enough Snow_Bunny. You can't just ride on other player's coattails and expect to get a free pass. Come up with some original thought and contribute otherwise I will be nominating you.

[PaltryExcuse]

Yep. It is. But the main point of this is: What reason would I have for playing that way? I.E. Pretending I didn't have the PoV and then after you get HoH saying I have PoV. If you can answer this at any point, that'd be awesome.

I can see how playing that way could be advantageous. If you can draw out a falseclaim or even a hint at one, like Saber seemed to be implying, then you could save it and pass it on, OR use it in order to make a case against the person, as you are doing now.

That describes a situation where I'd hide my ownership of the PoV, not why I'd lie about when I got it.

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Nominees

I've been trying to get some independent thought out of animorpherv1, but consistently been getting a regurgitation of other people's arguments. The only thing seemingly independent was his pressuring of SensFan, which was based on ridiculous claims (he replaced out, he was 'overdefensive'). These aren't scummy.

Sironigus would be my second nomination. This is because, when I go back and read him, it seems he does more clarification than actual scumhunting or progression in the slightest. For example, Post 709.

Oh wow.
From Page 14...

@Snowbunny regarding that question...

How is numbers bad when I'm trying to explain what someone else said? (which that someone else still didn't explain)... I even scratched it when I messed up right after.

The problem with the numbers stuff was that even if you got it right, it's hard to see it as helpful. It's just another indication of you explaining the game rather than playing it.

Thus, Sironigus was the first one to concretely suggest that the HoH not necessarily listen to the town. While others hinted that the HoH should not be a sheep, Sironigus put it into suggestion format. The intent seems good...that Sironigus wants to see the HoHs input without the players running the entire show during that timeperiod, but in honesty, it's tough to be the HoH and not show a single bit of input at the same time.

Arr- that's what it was. One HoH nominee and one town nominee. There is no way to isolate both of them.

So to suggest a concrete plan that allows the HoH to go against the will of the town (especially right after Mr Finch announced that this is particularly what could lead the town into failure)... I have to see this as suspicious. Furthermore, I'm surprised Mr Finch didn't call Sironigus out so early. Especially if I read this post carefully enough.

I think you're overexaggerating; it's not completely against the town. Besides, in order for the HoH candidate to be evicted, he needs to win the

support of the town.

Obviously if the HoH candidate is townish, the town candidate is probably going to be evicted anyway.

Both of these just explain game mechanics.

When Sironigus is called out for talking about independent thought, then backs off quite quickly into obscurity. Sironigus seems to be laying back so early for thinking that he had a nice little suggestion going on early. Says a lot of words without really having a stance on anything. Also, there's this weird post in which Sironigus asks for clarification on something about lurkers...and it almost reads as if Sironigus is defending against a future allegation that he himself is a lurker.

This is more over the discussion of what HoH actually is... I'll keep my beliefs with that, you guys can keep yours...
(i.e. - Tracker - to find power roles or catch mafia)

This doesn't really defend against the main problem Pablito has with your posts, it doesn't even identify it. You argued on the independence of the HoH earlier, but the problem at hand is how you back off so quickly and basically say nothing.

Presented up distracting numbers nonsense. Has given some absolutely stupid reasons for some of his stances.

AHH.

Numbers was ONE post that I quickly took back after. GEEZ, I didn't even try to fix it.

---

I was pretty o_O with KMD nomination...

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DisCode nominee was sudden also.

On DisCode/BV vs. SensFan/Hewitt...

I'm more likely to vote for Hewitt now, based on Sensfan.

Right now the only thing DisCode has on him is his initial posts.. and that post BV made.

There is very little opinion here, and offers no reason as to why he believes hewitt because of SensFan. Comments on the 'sudden' DisCode nomination which had already got Sly in trouble.

---

Did I stutter? I wanted you on the block because

1 - I think YOU are scum

. Since I didn't think that would be successful, I went for the guy you wanted in power because if you are scum wanting a lurker in power, that

2-suggest HE might be scum too.

1 - @SlySly - if DisCode turns town, would that change your view on Llama?
2 -... That's stretching it. Don't like this reasoning at all.

Ugh, that was bleh. I probably missed a bunch of info.

Question 1 is a legitimate question, as DisCode's nomination was due to Sly's suspicions on Llama. Question 2 is something that has been said before. This is one of his longer posts, and it really provides no insight into Sironigous. It leaves most of how he feels at this point up in the air, and the things he does comment on have little or no explanation.

Long story short:

Vote: animorpherv1

for having little to do with the progression of thought in the game. Seems to avoid giving anything remotely independent.

Vote: Sironigous

for coasting without pinpointing anyone, and copying others' thoughts when he does come up with ideas.

[farside22]

Nominations:

SlySly (3) Crazy, Mr Finch, Snow_Bunny
Animorpherv (3) Crazy, MrFinch, PaltryExcuse
Sironigous (1) PaltryExcuse

Just keeping a track of anyone who put nom's in bold.

Also prodding Sironigous

[SlySly]

I have already stated my choices, but just so I will end up on the list:

vote:kmd
vote:paltry

I have stated my reasoning many times over now and will be glad to restate them if requested. No need to beat a dead horse that has been repeatedly beaten posthumously already!!

[Kmd4390]

Vote Animorph, Snow_Bunny

just so it's bolded this time.

[animorpherv1]

vote:SlySly

Choosing nominations noone likes isn't a town tell.

[SlySly]

vote:SlySly

Choosing nominations noone likes isn't a town tell.

[Crazy]

I understand that you do know your alignment and that you are HoH. I am leaning heavily towards you being town at this point, which is the only reason Crazy wasn't put up as the replacement against you.

So you changed your mind about that, apparently? You said early in the game you'd put up the players you thought were most likely scum.

Why did you change your mind?

Hmm. Absolutely no info to take from this. Animorph and Snow_Bunny work as noms.

I thought Snowbunny was one of your higher town reads.

Paltry and the uber quick use of the POV to pull KMD out of the fire got to me. As others have already stated, it was almost a given that Sens would have been lynched given the choices and yet it was still used.

*blink* You're implying that Sens/hewitt being lynched would be a good thing? You said you thought both bv/hewitt were town!

I think what Paltry was trying to say is that he didn't use the PoV to

save

Kmd; it was to put a 3rd nominee on that he actually did think was scum.

I posted 2 quotes. One was tunneling and one was Ad Hom.

Actually, "ad hom" means saying someone's argument is invalid because of some personal factor... for example, "You're argument fails because you're an idiot."

How is it a scumtell that I agreed with you? And your "previously stated reasons" are crap.

Now that Sly has brought it up... why did you say you liked the bv nomination and then still vote to evict him?

I'm also feeling a bit of a lack of punch coming from Crazy. Kinda coasting.

Indeed, I'd agree with you. I'm surprised people have been saying I'm so pro-town.

Mostly, I think paltry used the pov to make himself look better, when it really wasn't used to the full benefit of the town.

Still, if the majority of the town preferred a hewitt lynch to a Kmd lynch, but a bv lynch over a hewitt lynch, then he used the PoV in a way that most of the town

liked.

I can't say that doing something the town

likes

is scummy.


(Haven't read the last two pages yet. Will do so later.)

[SlySly]

I understand that you do know your alignment and that you are HoH. I am leaning heavily towards you being town at this point, which is the only reason Crazy wasn't put up as the replacement against you.

So you changed your mind about that, apparently? You said early in the game you'd put up the players you thought were most likely scum.

Why did you change your mind?

I didn't change my mind. When I put Sens up, I felt he was scum. hewitt's play since he replaced in is what has changed my feeling about the alignment of the role Sens was assigned.

Actually, "ad hom" means saying someone's argument is invalid because of some personal factor... for example, "You're argument fails because you're an idiot."

The following quote from Llama is in the realm of Ad Hom. Paraphrased "we only have 1 POV left because Sly is an idiot". Perhaps I should have said Ad Hom-ish to be more accurate.

Also thanks to someones stupid noms we only have one PoV left... so

[Kmd4390]

vote:SlySly

Choosing nominations noone likes isn't a town tell.

Who would you choose as a second nom?

I thought Snowbunny was one of your higher town reads.

No. What made you think that?

Now that Sly has brought it up... why did you say you liked the bv nomination and then still vote to evict him?

Um. Are you implying that I shouldn't have voted to evict someone who I liked to see nominated for eviction?

[LlamaFluff]

The following quote from Llama is in the realm of Ad Hom. Paraphrased "we only have 1 POV left because Sly is an idiot". Perhaps I should have said Ad Hom-ish to be more accurate.

Also thanks to someones stupid noms we only have one PoV left... so

Saying "you did something stupid and wasted a PoV which is scummy" isnt an-hom. Saying "You are an idiot. We have only one Pov" is ad-hom.

Im not attacking you, just describing your move.

@Sly/Ani - Do either of you have PoV?

[SlySly]

I'm not going to get into a semantics battle over the definition of Ad Hom. What you said was a personal attack and it was Ad Hom-ish. If you disagree, fine. I don't care.

I don't have the POV.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't see a personal attack. I saw Llama upset with a move you made in this game (noms).

[SlySly]

What he said can be interpreted in 2 ways. Interpret in my way and it is very close to Ad Hom. You seem very hard set on keeping any battle of semantics open with me in this game. Do you think you are going to get me to concede this point anymore than you have other points in this game? If so, I guess we can go a few rounds and say the same things over and over until you see I am not going to change my opinion once again.

[Kast]

I'm not seeing anything new being discussed. It is clear that most people want Sly lynched, and for good reason. Second to that looks like Animorph, but that doesn't even matter because Sly is going to be lynched. People mentioning "what if Sly gets veto'd" are just raising pointless scummy distractions. If someone PoV's Sly, then they're obvscum. It' snot going to happen,

This double voting/nomination system is unecessary and slanted to give scum more influence on the HoH's nominees while prolonging to game needlessly. Let's see things move.

[Kast]

Btw Sly, that wasn't a semantics argument. You tried to be confusing, but regardless of what your intended meaning was, it makes no sense.

[Kmd4390]

What he said can be interpreted in 2 ways. Interpret in my way and it is very close to Ad Hom. You seem very hard set on keeping any battle of semantics open with me in this game. Do you think you are going to get me to concede this point anymore than you have other points in this game? If so, I guess we can go a few rounds and say the same things over and over until you see I am not going to change my opinion once again.

Also thanks to someones stupid noms we only have one PoV left... so

Also thanks to someone

s

stupid

s

noms we only have one PoV left... so

The difference is his actual quote calls the noms stupid where you seem to think he is calling you specifically stupid.

[SlySly]

I'm not seeing anything new being discussed.

You aren't adding anything, that's for sure. I have seen lots of new things discussed. For one, someone brought up the fact that you have done nothing so far to convince them you are town anymore than your predecessor, zwet. What are your thoughts about that?

It is clear that most people want Sly lynched, and for good reason. Second to that looks like Animorph, but that doesn't even matter because Sly is going to be lynched.

You reading what hewitt is saying? I'm not saying I won't be nominated, but I don't think it is a foregone conclusion at this point, but I won't be lynched if I am not nominated. Only hewitt knows who is going up at this point, and that is only if he has already made up his mind.

People mentioning "what if Sly gets veto'd" are just raising pointless scummy distractions. If someone PoV's Sly, then they're obvscum. It' snot going to happen,

I don't have the POV and I am not expecting it to be used on me. I don't even know that I would use it on myself at this point if I did have it. I might let the lynch go through and pass it on to the person I feel is most likely town. That would depend on who I was up against.

This double voting/nomination system is unecessary and slanted to give scum more influence on the HoH's nominees while prolonging to game needlessly. Let's see things move.

Why do some of you sign up for Big Brother Mafia if you hate Big Brother so much. Try signing up for normal games if you don't like twists.

Btw Sly, that wasn't a semantics argument. You tried to be confusing, but regardless of what your intended meaning was, it makes no sense.

Whatever, dude. The whole issue was the definition of Ad Hom. I know what it is. Llama's statement could be interpreted in 1 way where it is very close to Ad Hom. It can be interpreted in another way where it is obviously not Ad Hom. Clear enough? How is this Ad hom definition discussion helping with the nominations at all?

[SlySly]

The difference is his actual quote calls the noms stupid where you seem to think he is calling you specifically stupid.

The fact that he added the words "someones stupid" made it personal.If he had said "due to someones noms, we only have 1 pov" it wouldn't be a personal attack. I don't really give a f@*k. He was calling me stupid however you want to twist it. It don't really f@*king matter. Semantics!!!!!!!! Perpetual semantic initiation is a scumtell from my experience!!!

Same question to you kmd. How is this discussion helping the nomination process in anyway?

[Crazy]

I didn't change my mind. When I put Sens up, I felt he was scum. hewitt's play since he replaced in is what has changed my feeling about the alignment of the role Sens was assigned.

You said if you thought hewitt was scum, then you'd put up me against him. I'm not your top scum-suspect.

Regardless, you've stated that DC wasn't your top suspect; it was LF, and you just put up DC because you knew LF wouldn't be evicted. So yeah, you changed your mind.

No. What made you think that?

This:

Who does everyone want as the next HOH? I'm not going to just take who everyone says, but I want input. I'm leaning Snow-Bunny.

Um. Are you implying that I shouldn't have voted to evict someone who I liked to see nominated for eviction?

Oops. Logic fail on my part. Looking back, your earlier actions do indicate that you were suspicious of DisCode.

Saying "you did something stupid and wasted a PoV which is scummy" isnt an-hom. Saying "You are an idiot. We have only one Pov" is ad-hom.

Im not attacking you, just describing your move.

Actually, neither of those are actually ad hom, unless if I'm just totally mistaken.

[LlamaFluff]

People mentioning "what if Sly gets veto'd" are just raising pointless scummy distractions. If someone PoV's Sly, then they're obvscum.

Making sure Sly doesnt have PoV. If he has PoV he will use it, and burn up our last one. If he claims to have PoV, or if no one claims to have PoV, it can be assumed that him (or ani) has it and is intending to get rid of the last one.

I have to say having NO PoVs around can get quite ugly quite quickly. Something where scum stumbles into HoH and puts up two people everyone thinks is town on their way down for instance.

[hewitt]

Okay first of all enough of the ad hom argument, it's a waste of time, a distraction, and is absolutely not going to influence anything. Second, unless the mod for some reason does not follow the show guidelines the PoV is not awarded until after nominations. I don't think there's any reason to assume that the PoV has already been handed out and no claim of the PoV will affect my decision-making because scum can just as easily claim they have it already.

[SlySly]

You said if you thought hewitt was scum, then you'd put up me against him. I'm not your top scum-suspect.

hewitt was already up. If hewitt had not played the way he has played and changed my opinion of his alignment, I would have put you up against him because I felt you had played the most town-like game up to that point. I feel in that case, hewitt would have been evicted over you. Because hewitt's play had changed my mind about his alignment, I didn't put you up against him. I have already clearly stated this before.

-----------------------------

I have to say having NO PoVs around can get quite ugly quite quickly.

Maybe you should have thought about that more yesterday when you gave Paltry support to waste a POV on a player who was in no danger of being evicted.

-----------------------------

Okay first of all enough of the ad hom argument, it's a waste of time, a distraction, and is absolutely not going to influence anything.

Those continually insisting on keeping a distractionary topic alive should influence the opinions about their alignment.

Second, unless the mod for some reason does not follow the show guidelines the PoV is not awarded until after nominations.

Paltry claims to have gotten the POV when I became HoH before my nominations.