Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[ElectricBadger]

The George Michael, Dont Ask *facepalm* Vote Count

Farside22 - ElectricBadger, Nikanor
ElectricBadger - Benmage
Nikanor - Farside22

Not Voting: Hewitt, SaintKerrigan

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

No, farside - a response to Ben in 1071.

[hewitt]

Okay I apologize I will actually do something tonight. I'm trying to finish a project, once I've completed that tonight I will read and catch up.

[farside22]

EB: I did my review of Nik's play. I would like now a post by post comment on why you think I'm mafia scum in comparision to Nik's play.

I've stated my reasons for thinking you're mafia. Add to that your play today, which met my expectations for mafia: even when asked directly you didn't comment on my tactic to pursue mafia (I get the feeling you agree with me but don't want to say so); you attempted to portray Ben as potential mafia without any real proof and pushed heavily in that direction (again, you seem to agreehe's likely a wolf, and at this point lynching the wolf is an instant win for mafia).

If you have specific questions about Nik I'll answer; but I'm not going to analyze every one of his posts. He could be scum - at this point I think the case on him is decent and that it's likely - but as two of you, nikanor or SK are mafia that doesn't really change things. I think you're the better lynch not because Nik seems town but because you seem like a pretty sure thing.

What tactic was this you speak of? Umm no I didn't I wrote an analysis and I said it had potentional of 2 mafia scum which is could. Are you saying you can't see mafia trying to to mislynch claiming one of the 2 monks are mafia while knowing this to be false?
Lazy, lazy person. You want to ignore Nik and I'm starting to think the 2 of you as buddies together.
Also your analysis is just a bunch of talk with no proof. Saying I was not involved in lynches is false as I was part of the RBT and ODDin lych. Where was Nik in all this?
The rest is just WIFOM.

Still waiting for an answer from EB here

[ElectricBadger]

Tactic was lynching a non-m/m to make targetting easier for the scum to kill each other off.

Not quite following the mafia mislynch sequence...mafia might try to mislynch a monk, although it would be their worst choice atm...if you mean could ben be mafia, it's possible I guess but I really don't think so.

You were involved in lynches, yes; just not very actively. Nik has been lurker scum most of the game, and yes - I find it very suspicious, particularly right now. If he were town, unless he disagreed about Ben he would know for sure that you are mafia - but he hardly contributes a peep towards killing you off.

Nik would be a good lynch today, and I'd vote him. You seem to keep implying that my vote on you indicates I don't think he's scum when that's hardly the case.

In any case, killing mafia today is going to require every non-mafia so there's not really much to be done except argue with each other until Hew, SK and Ben contribute or gain some sense.

[ElectricBadger]

Where was Nik in all this?

You know...this is actually a pretty good point. And he's the one lurker atm I can do something about, so:

Unvote Farside, Vote Nikanor

If nothing else, I'd at least rather lose to scum who worked for it.

[farside22]

Where was Nik in all this?

You know...this is actually a pretty good point. And he's the one lurker atm I can do something about, so:

Unvote Farside, Vote Nikanor

If nothing else, I'd at least rather lose to scum who worked for it.

Ben is implying you and me scum based on my analysis but refuses to acknowledge that as a townie he should know he has a 50/50 shot at scum between me and Nik or a 100% chance. Do you find that he continues to think about the wolf and what the wolf wants not at all more then likely he is the wolf.
Now I get to the really tough question: Who looks to be scum buddies with who on each person with the idea that there is 2 mafia (just thinking there could be 1 but the with what haylen said I think 2)
Orginally my thought is Ben is scum trying to create a mislynch with the monks knowing that Nik is his scum buddy while directing the wolf to kill the other Monk giving the mafia a perfect win.
Second thought he is wolf and wants to chose the town to lynch one of the 2 monks leaving the town with just VT claims and Hewitt as a patsy (again this is all hypo-theory)

[ElectricBadger]

With the lack of punctuation that was a bit hard to decipher, but to try to respond: If there were a Ben-Nik team, then they wouldn't have any need to push so hard for a monk lynch. Lynching anyone other than mafia tonight is a near-certain mafia victory. In fact, killing you would mean they'd be 100% certain of killing the wolf during the night, while the wolf would be almost certain to target a monk (two living monks tomorrow means he's the lynch). Killing the mason is even better. Other than a mafia lynch, killing a monk today is the only way they have a chance of losing, actually: only a 50/50 chance of NKing a werewolf then, and a chance they'd be the wolf's NK and tomorrow's lynch.

So no, I don't see Ben as mafia by today's voting unless he's trying overly hard to be tricky or he's acting foolish.

Ben-wolf seems like a very solid case, though. Whether or not the monks are mafia, he needs at least one dead before tomorrow. Ideally, he wants to kill a mafia-monk, which puts him in a fairly good position if he can survive the night. He's desperate, though, which is why he's pushing at me so hard.

Also, he did acknowledge that my case for not voting a monk was sound, implying agreement with your stats - he just stated he didn't care and wanted me dead anyways. I don't things between us are overly personal, so there's only reason I can see that taking such a risk is reasonable.

[farside22]

Sorry for the bad grammar and all. I'm terrible with spelling as well.

Anyways there is a near certainity if we don't get mafia today that the mafia will win, however mafia also needs to trick the wolf. That's why a part of me can see this as a ploy by mafia to not only create a mislynch, but to get the wolf to target a non mafia member.
Now for the big question to you EB: If you believe Ben to be the wolf then:
Do you think between me and Nik that we are both mafia or do you think only 1 of us to be mafia?

[ElectricBadger]

Do you think between me and Nik that we are both mafia or do you think only 1 of us to be mafia?

I'm inclined to say you both are, but there's a large degree of uncertainty as I have nearly nothing to go on with SK. I want to say what I've seen of him so far is townish, but honestly I think that honestly has more to do with his agreeing with me and more to do with the quality of attacks by ben than his defense against them.

But at present there's a lack of evidence against him and decent, though not perfect, cases against you and Nik.

[farside22]

Do you think between me and Nik that we are both mafia or do you think only 1 of us to be mafia?

I'm inclined to say you both are, but there's a large degree of uncertainty as I have nearly nothing to go on with SK. I want to say what I've seen of him so far is townish, but honestly I think that honestly has more to do with his agreeing with me and more to do with the quality of attacks by ben than his defense against them.

But at present there's a lack of evidence against him and decent, though not perfect, cases against you and Nik.

Well I have my case on Nik which is basically him saying a whole lot of nothing all game.
I would like to see more from SK in regards to post and comments.
I'm going to assume you 2 didn't talk during the night to each other?

[ElectricBadger]

We did a little, but he didn't catch up reading so there wasn't too much to talk about.

[SaintKerrigan]

Alright, here's what I think about everyone, going in alphabetical order.

Benmage

Initially I thought he was scum because of his godawful trap. As I reread him in ISO, however, I got more of a town vibe from him. It not anything I can name specifically, just more of a general gut feeling. His Day Three activities, however, seem indicative to trying to hide the fact that he's the last remaining werewolf. All in all, Benmage is confusing the hell out of me.

I think I'll put him down as neutral (leaning scum) for now.

ElectricBadger

My fellow monk. His lack of willingness to scumhunt on Day 2 is a bit troubling, but I can understand the reasoning behind it (those walls of text are killing me too). I haven't seen anything else that's terribly disturbing, so I'm leaning slightly town on him at the moment.

Farside22

The way Farside continually hounded Scien over the course of the game majorly set off my scumdar, and even more so now that Scien is a confirmed townie. A lot of what I've seen from her has been overreaction to either weak points or null tells. I felt she was very scummy for this alone, but her assault on Benmage today is also critical. She said multiple times she thinks Benmage is a werewolf, yet instead of backing down and searching for other scum, she continued to attack Benmage. This very much feels like an attempt to look productive without actually doing anything. Combined with a playstyle that I think resembles agressive scum, I think it's very likely that Farside is mafia.

Hewitt

Since Hewitt is not the right lynch for today for obvioius reasons, I'm not going to focus him at the moment. My basic opinion on him is possible werewolf due to being a mason, but the way he claimed mason makes me wonder if he is town. Overall: plain neutral.

Nikanor

Nothing wrong about his posts that I can see, didn't get any scumvibes from him. However, if Benmage is the wolf and Farside is Mafioso #1, process of elimination would suggest either EB or Nikanor is Mafioso #2. If Hewitt is the wolf, of course, that changes things. I'll go with just a neutral, leaning town, for Nikanor.

I think Farside has the best chance of being mafia scum, so

Vote: Farside22.

[farside22]

@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?
Do you think trying to also find the wolf in the game should also be a priority of the town
Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?
Now that SK completely missed the point about 50/50 shot in which ben is trying to do with the monks I'm going to assum SK mafia with Nik at this point with that read alone.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?

He did actually have some points against ODDin on Day 2.

Do you think trying to also find the wolf in the game should also be a priority of the town

I'm not denying the importance of finding the wolf. My point was, you already considered the wolf found and you

still

pressed onto Benmage. I hardly consider that productive.

Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?

Well, first the mafia obviously has only one scum buddy. As for who your scum buddy would be...actually, I would guess Benmage because of your rather useless (no offense meant) attack on him and your assertion that he's a werewolf. Could be a mafia ploy to clear one of their own from a lynch today.

Now that SK completely missed the point about 50/50 shot in which ben is trying to do with the monks I'm going to assum SK mafia with Nik at this point with that read alone.

Erm, what?

[farside22]

@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?

He did actually have some points against ODDin on Day 2.

Oddin was town his analysis was nothing on anyone else

Do you think trying to also find the wolf in the game should also be a priority of the town

I'm not denying the importance of finding the wolf. My point was, you already considered the wolf found and you

still

pressed onto Benmage. I hardly consider that productive.

Ben's attacking my point on him. My feel was to see if he was scum with Nik or if he is wolf. All I get from Ben with his point on the Monk's is scum motivation

Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?

Well, first the mafia obviously has only one scum buddy. As for who your scum buddy would be...actually, I would guess Benmage because of your rather useless (no offense meant) attack on him and your assertion that he's a werewolf. Could be a mafia ploy to clear one of their own from a lynch today.

So you see no point that he is looking at this from a wolf point instead of scum?

[Nikanor]

Sorry, I'm here now. Catching up on what was said while I was gone.

[Nikanor]

Oh what a finkle mind to change so easily with no reason.

I said in my longer scumlist why I put you down as scum as opposed to town. I still haven't read those text walls, and I don't intend to do so. The biggest reason for why I called you both town in that post was because of your activity (probably not the best judge of townieness, but whatever). Why exactly is the fact that I changed my mind scummy?

I notice lots of piggy back's that Nik uses in such a case as this:

I don't see the piggybacking. Care to point it out?

Mind you this is the first post that nik even mentions anyone as for as who is scum or town:

Not true. You even say later in your post that I scumhunted on RBT, and earlier in your post that I called both you and Scien town early on in the game. This quote smells heavily of bullshit.

Longer reason's found here: As you can see nothing remotely scum hunting in this post.

What's your point? Hunting for town is just as important as hunting for scum, especially when the scum (you and Benmage, for example) is better at avoiding being scumhunted than I am at scumhunting.

deflecting and protection SK here:

I'm not the only one who refused to accept Benmage's calls for SK to be lynched. I gave my own reason for why I thought Ben was wrong about SK's supposed scumtell, just as you and others did. How is my defense of SK different from the defense you and others gave?

Also where did Oddin attempt to lynch the mason?

When he voted hewitt, he tried to get masons lynched. When he called SK probscum without actually voting him, he was avoiding lynching monks.

In short Niknor has done little to nothing all game long. He ask for proof from me but never once provided proof of anything he has said so far this game, what little he comments on.

Did you ever ask for any proof? No, you didn't. So don't try to play the 'you didn't give any proof!' card, as I would have gladly provided had you asked for it.

@SK: Any reason for why you gave neutral reads on literally everyone in the game, save farside?

[farside22]

piggy back:

Quote:
3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.
In order to catch a good scum player, one must search for ulterior motive in posts. In that way, I think it's a good thing that ODDin said what he had about that quote, but I also see how you can take that as a twisting of your words.

I will have to look for others later it's still early

What's your point? Hunting for town is just as important as hunting for scum, especially when the scum (you and Benmage, for example) is better at avoiding being scumhunted than I am at scumhunting.

To find town you need to figure out scum. What in that post shows anything remotely showing why (except me or scien) you thought a person was scum or town? Didn't you have Ben as town in that post (looks,,,yup)

Not true. You even say later in your post that I scumhunted on RBT, and earlier in your post that I called both you and Scien town early on in the game. This quote smells heavily of bullshit.

saving this to answer later

I'm not the only one who refused to accept Benmage's calls for SK to be lynched. I gave my own reason for why I thought Ben was wrong about SK's supposed scumtell, just as you and others did. How is my defense of SK different from the defense you and others gave?

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

When he voted hewitt, he tried to get masons lynched. When he called SK probscum without actually voting him, he was avoiding lynching monks.

No Oddin found it a cheap shot. What's your second point there? Can you show where Oddin was trying to vote out the mason. As far as I found in a brief moment was he voted for RBT in the end.

Did you ever ask for any proof? No, you didn't. So don't try to play the 'you didn't give any proof!' card, as I would have gladly provided had you asked for it.

No one should have to ask for proof? And EB and myself both said something about your poor attempt at your scum list.

[Benmage]

I'm back, but still busy. Have a lot to catchup on.

[Benmage]

Ben is implying you and me scum based on my analysis but refuses to acknowledge that as a townie he should know he has a 50/50 shot at scum between me and Nik or a 100% chance. Do you find that he continues to think about the wolf and what the wolf wants not at all more then likely he is the wolf.

This is nonsense because I've acknowledged this statement already, and have already answered. If its 50-50 between you and Nik its also 50-50 between EB and SK.

[Benmage]

With the lack of punctuation that was a bit hard to decipher, but to try to respond: If there were a Ben-Nik team, then they wouldn't have any need to push so hard for a monk lynch. Lynching anyone other than mafia tonight is a near-certain mafia victory. In fact, killing you would mean they'd be 100% certain of killing the wolf during the night, while the wolf would be almost certain to target a monk (two living monks tomorrow means he's the lynch). Killing the mason is even better. Other than a mafia lynch, killing a monk today is the only way they have a chance of losing, actually: only a 50/50 chance of NKing a werewolf then, and a chance they'd be the wolf's NK and tomorrow's lynch.

So no, I don't see Ben as mafia by today's voting unless he's trying overly hard to be tricky or he's acting foolish.

No, you are correct that me mafia is damn near impossible.. Farside is trying to push any anti-me agenda.

Also, he did acknowledge that my case for not voting a monk was sound, implying agreement with your stats - he just stated he didn't care and wanted me dead anyways. I don't things between us are overly personal, so there's only reason I can see that taking such a risk is reasonable.

Its not personal lol....You are obvious scum. So the math may be in his favor, but this game is more than math and you read 100% scum.

Did you really just say Nik/Farside are scum, quoting a farside post to vote Nik....lol....yeah you two are partners.

[Benmage]

Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?

Well, first the mafia obviously has only one scum buddy. As for who your scum buddy would be...actually, I would guess Benmage because of your rather useless (no offense meant) attack on him and your assertion that he's a werewolf. Could be a mafia ploy to clear one of their own from a lynch today.

Wow, reading some peoples deductive reasoning continues to amaze me.

[Benmage]

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

uhh i already pointed em out.

[farside22]

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

uhh i already pointed em out.

Lets see it's me and EB or me and SK and only because I think your idea for going for the monks is anti-town.
Is that you're reasoning in a nutshell?

[Benmage]

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

uhh i already pointed em out.

Lets see it's me and EB or me and SK and only because I think your idea for going for the monks is anti-town.
Is that you're reasoning in a nutshell?

Its you an EB...how is going for the monks anti-town?? Who are you saying are the final two mafia? I thought you said SK/Nik a bit ago...which sounds like SK is a monk...