Newbie 869 - Game over

[Nachomamma8]

Hello everyone, I'll read up tomorrow.

But a glance at the screen tells me that Ellibereth needs to explain why he decided to investigate jee the first night, and name one other person he was thinking about investigating and why.

HINT: "He was scummy to me" is not a reason for why.

[Nachomamma8]

Putting someone at L-1 before the replacement even has a chance to read up? Don't do that, please.

Vote: SensFan

Just finished reading.

Sens, you're honestly basing

an entire case

off using the word "bussing" on day one? With a player who has just now joined? What?

The first problem I've had from you is your excessive tunneling. Throughout the entire game, you've had a grand total of 2 suspects, 1 of which is dead and confirmed town. You have a total of 1 major point against your only suspect, and that's based on some scumslips you've seen in other newbie games (link me to three if you can. The first so we can see an example, the second so we can see it wasn't a fluke, and the third because you've played Mafia quite a bit before). You've been using one scumslip to get you through the entire game without saying anything of merit.

On the other hand, your suspect has been making what seems to me to be a conscious effort to scumhunt, and hasn't has any other glaring anti-town moments that I can see.

Gotta say that I LOVE how you practically piggy-backed on RPG's vote earlier when you saw the opportunity to take out the main person who found you suspicious, the resumed Elli.

What was I supposed to do, RPG, when the player I thought was Scum wasn't doing anything to let me see where he's coming from, and the rest of the Town didn't appear to be following me? Hindsight is 20-20.

Explain why you were voting him for something other than a nulltell, maybe? I might just be shooting in the dark here, but it normally helps. I'm most suspicious of your Darklight vote because of my town meta read on him. He played to it to a T, so you, who have apparently played PLENTY of games with him should know how he plays by now.

[Nachomamma8]

And if any of you hammer before I post again, I will hunt you down and destroy you.

Night.

[totallynotmafia]

Cop, I have an innocent on jee.
And TNM, withholding information?

The only thing I'm withholding is information that I think would benifit the mafia if they knew it...although they may have clued onto it already...and then again I could be wrong about it myself.

I'm dubious of this cop claim, but I think it at least warrants an unvote, seeing as you did supect Jee on day one.

Unvote

However, you could just as easily be lying and trying to clear your scum-buddy in the process.

I might be mistaken but I took it that there may be a possibility that there is no cop, if so this means that there may be no counter claim.

Ellie, you're going to have to prove this somehow, or at least be a little more convincing, otherwise I'm going to put my vote back on you.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Ellibereth - 2 (SensFan, jee)

SensFan - 1 (Nachomamma8)
totallynotmafia - 1 (Ellibereth)

Not Voting - 3 (Deer, Mr Finch, totallynotmafia)

4 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Thursday, December 24.

[Ellibereth]

Hello everyone, I'll read up tomorrow.

But a glance at the screen tells me that Ellibereth needs to explain why he decided to investigate jee the first night, and name one other person he was thinking about investigating and why.

HINT: "He was scummy to me" is not a reason for why.

Welcome!
Fairly obvious why if you've read Day 1.
Other choice would also obviosuly been deer.
I chose jee over deer because jee seemed more experienced.

[Ellibereth]

Cop, I have an innocent on jee.
And TNM, withholding information?

The only thing I'm withholding is information that I think would benifit the mafia if they knew it...although they may have clued onto it already...and then again I could be wrong about it myself.

I'm dubious of this cop claim, but I think it at least warrants an unvote, seeing as you did supect Jee on day one.

Unvote

However, you could just as easily be lying and trying to clear your scum-buddy in the process.

I might be mistaken but I took it that there may be a possibility that there is no cop, if so this means that there may be no counter claim.

Ellie, you're going to have to prove this somehow, or at least be a little more convincing, otherwise I'm going to put my vote back on you.

How the hell am I suppose to prove it?
Why do you think it's dubious?
Be more convincing about what? If you want me to change the way I've been playing so far, I won't.

[Ellibereth]

Guys, we hit deadline in less a week btw.

Unvote, Vote Deer

He's shown consistent lack of scumhunting and a habit of only reacting to posts specifically directed toward him. The rare times he has questioned someone has been mimicries of previously asked questions.

I expect Sens to post more after his finals are over.

[jee]

My thoughts so far:
Elli has been under suspicion for a while now. Just claimed cop and investigated me.
At this time. I don't know how I feel about the claim. Right now, I believe it.

Unvote

Which leads me to my next suspicion.

Vote: Deer

[totallynotmafia]

Ellie, I'm dubious of your claim for three reasons:

1) You were at L-1, and thus don't have much to lose if you are scum. DLA being honest and claiming vanilla townie didn't help him one bit, the cop claim is the obvious choice.

2) You came up with Jee as innocent and I've already stated that I'm suss of you two being scum-buddies.

3) I have the feeling that someone else is the cop, just from their posts. I could be wrong about this however.

And now yours and Jee's votes for Deer consecutively just make me think you're both scum-buddies again. I really don't know what to believe now, I don't want to lynch the cop but obviously you're not even prepared to try and back-up this claim, all you've said is "Cop, I have an innocent on jee." Do you really expect me to just give up all my suspicion of you purely based on a claim that there is no way to verify?

Also, both Deer and Mr Finch had the opportunity to hammer you, I think they could have successfully gotten away with that had they chosen to. Now that Jee has removed his vote I think I can safely put the pressure back on you.

Vote Ellibereth

I would like to hear from SensFan, Deer, and Mr Finch.

[Nachomamma8]

All of you have failed in noticing my Sens comments, including Ellibereth who is currently being tunneled by him.

What do you both have to gain from lynching Deer right now? Where do we go from here if Deer is town?

[Ellibereth]

You know its easy as hell to tell who you're talking about in #3

HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSE TO BACK MY CLAIM UP?

I've said several times I disliked Deer's lack of scumhunting and that's a massive scumtell.

Give me a concrete case of why you think jee and I are scum. What do you think about deer's complete lack of scumhunting and Sen's uber-tunneling?

Eh what? Why would you think that scum would get away with hammering the cop??

[totallynotmafia]

I went back through the thread to see if there are any contradictions to this claim.

These are from Day 2, post 212-216, after Ellie has supposedly received an innocent on Jee.

jee wrote:
ALSO, if I were scum, why, out of anybody, would I choose AD to nightkill. AD's indecisive decisions would be a perfect accusation to push toward and get him mis-lynched. Why would I make it hard on myself and kill my 'top suspect'. I would then be required to fabricate another accusation on someone else.. It just doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not sure, but is this WIFOM or not?

I believe it is classified as WIFOM

Do you think using WIFOM is scummy?

I believe that both town and scum use it, and because of that, using WIFOM can be used as a case supporter for further incrimination, but not a sole reason for an accusation.

Do you think using bad logic is scummy?

Ellie, why would you bother purusing this line of questioning if you already know for a fact that Jee is innocent?

[Ellibereth]

All of you have failed in noticing my Sens comments, including Ellibereth who is currently being tunneled by him.

What do you both have to gain from lynching Deer right now? Where do we go from here if Deer is town?

TNM thinks Sens is the cop.
Sens said somewhere that exams were the reason he wasn't posting content, and I expect a real case against me this weekend. If his next post is more crap about the bussing then he's getting my vote.

You seriously think someone that has made no attempt to scumhunt and only post when someone directly suspects them could be town??

[Ellibereth]

I went back through the thread to see if there are any contradictions to this claim.

These are from Day 2, post 212-216, after Ellie has supposedly received an innocent on Jee.

jee wrote:
ALSO, if I were scum, why, out of anybody, would I choose AD to nightkill. AD's indecisive decisions would be a perfect accusation to push toward and get him mis-lynched. Why would I make it hard on myself and kill my 'top suspect'. I would then be required to fabricate another accusation on someone else.. It just doesn't make sense to me.


I'm not sure, but is this WIFOM or not?

I believe it is classified as WIFOM

Do you think using WIFOM is scummy?

I believe that both town and scum use it, and because of that, using WIFOM can be used as a case supporter for further incrimination, but not a sole reason for an accusation.

Do you think using bad logic is scummy?

Ellie, why would you bother purusing this line of questioning if you already know for a fact that Jee is innocent?

I wanted to see if he had the same line of reasoning about WIFOM as I did. Also, it never hurts to make it clear to yourself what other's positions are. Note that I didn't Fos/Vote him anywhere along the line.

For the record I feel WIFOM is a legitimate argument in some situations.

[totallynotmafia]

You know its easy as hell to tell who you're talking about in #3

HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSE TO BACK MY CLAIM UP?

I've said several times I disliked Deer's lack of scumhunting and that's a massive scumtell.

Give me a concrete case of why you think jee and I are scum. What do you think about deer's complete lack of scumhunting and Sen's uber-tunneling?

Eh what? Why would you think that scum would get away with hammering the cop??

Hey, I'm just trying to help. Like I said, I really don't want to lynch the cop, but it's a bit hard to just suddenly give up all my suspicions. I was merely trying to give you the opportunity to convince me that you are the cop and prevent me from making a blunder that will probably result in the town losing. That's fine if there's nothing you can do to prove it, I'm just saying that you can't blame me for not just taking your word for it, as that would be a pretty stupid blunder on my account as well if you are indeed mafia.

[Ellibereth]

I don't want you to give up suspicion on me, that would be playing bad mafia.
What I don't want you to say is that I'm "not even prepared to try and back-up this claim". I can't just magic something out of the air to prove I'm the cop ya know...

[totallynotmafia]

Ok, well the suspicion outweighs the claim at the moment, but like I said, I need to hear from the others first.

[Nachomamma8]

You seriously think someone that has made no attempt to scumhunt and only post when someone directly suspects them could be town??

Yes. You should always hold the possibility that someone is town when you're a mislynch away from LyLo; overconfidence isn't going to help you here. And if Deer is town, we have nothing left. No real strong connections, no nothing.

If we lynch Sens, he most likely will flip scum. If this happens, we hit scum and don't have to worry about LyLo at all. If Sens flips town, we lynch you and hit scum next day. That way, the worst case scenario is that we end up in a 2 town 1 scum LyLo, which has chances that I like a lot better than a 3 town 2 scum scenario.

[Ellibereth]

You have a couple of questions from 311 you need to anwser.

[Ellibereth]

EBWOP: 319 was directed at TNM.

[Ellibereth]

You seriously think someone that has made no attempt to scumhunt and only post when someone directly suspects them could be town??

Yes. You should always hold the possibility that someone is town when you're a mislynch away from LyLo; overconfidence isn't going to help you here. And if Deer is town, we have nothing left. No real strong connections, no nothing.

If we lynch Sens, he most likely will flip scum. If this happens, we hit scum and don't have to worry about LyLo at all. If Sens flips town, we lynch you and hit scum next day. That way, the worst case scenario is that we end up in a 2 town 1 scum LyLo, which has chances that I like a lot better than a 3 town 2 scum scenario.

If Sens is town, why am I automatically scum?

[Nachomamma8]

TNM, if Sens was the cop, then he would've done 1 of 2 thing.

1) He would've claimed long ago to get Elli lynched. A scum for a cop is a VERY good trade.

2) He would've made a more convincing case.

And I'd also like to point out the fact that you're about to lynch a claimed cop because you believe that there's a cop with a guilty on someone, even though that person hasn't inferred or said anything of the sort.

[totallynotmafia]

You have a couple of questions from 311 you need to anwser.

I've already given a fair amount of reasons for you and Jee, if I have time tomorrow though I'll do a quote-by-quote summary.

I haven't noticed Deer's lack of scum-hunting, I'll go back and read over his posts again. As Nacho said though, we have to be careful who we lynch, and I'm not sure that it is a solid reason to lynch someone.

I think you know what I think about Sens tunnelling...

If I was mafia I would have probably taken that risk of hammering you if you were the cop, seeing as there were others more adamant that you are scum ie Sens and me, who would probably get more of the blame for the mis-lynch. Then again, this is my first game so if I was mafia I would probably be crap.

If we lynch Sens, he most likely will flip scum. If this happens, we hit scum and don't have to worry about LyLo at all. If Sens flips town, we lynch you and hit scum next day. That way, the worst case scenario is that we end up in a 2 town 1 scum LyLo, which has chances that I like a lot better than a 3 town 2 scum scenario.

I'm glad you said this because I was thinking the same thing, of voting for Deer and then if he is town going lynching Ellie (most likely followed by Jee). It probably makes more sense to do this with SensFan though.

TNM, if Sens was the cop, then he would've done 1 of 2 thing.

1) He would've claimed long ago to get Elli lynched. A scum for a cop is a VERY good trade.

2) He would've made a more convincing case.

And I'd also like to point out the fact that you're about to lynch a claimed cop because you believe that there's a cop with a guilty on someone, even though that person hasn't inferred or said anything of the sort.

Okay, the cat's out of the bag and there is a cop claim so this is why I thought SensFan was cop:

Vote: Ellie. Should have stuck to my gut yesterday.

This seems as though he got the guilty response on Ellie, and so immediately put the vote on him. In a later post he says "Ellie's still scum guys", and so I was certain that he was trying to drop hints that he had investigated Ellie as guilty without actually revealing himself as cop. Oh well, we'll see I guess.

[Ellibereth]

Lining up lynches is a scumtell IMO.