Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[hewitt]

Huh, I must have missed that somewhere.

[SlySly]

Huh, I must have missed that somewhere.

This is a recent post...

I received the PoV after Sly got HoH. That post is before Sly got HoH.

This post was made long before my nominations...

I have the veto this week, so if you're worried about Saber having it, you need not do so anymore. I'll post on who I'd like to nominate later.

I would feel safe in speculating that the POV has already been handed out for this week. But, I could be wrong.

[hewitt]

Hm well that will definitely factor into my nominations then.

[Snow_Bunny]

That's not good enough Snow_Bunny. You can't just ride on other player's coattails and expect to get a free pass. Come up with some original thought and contribute otherwise I will be nominating you.

What's exactly not good enough? My reasons on Ani? I'm sorry, but I don't have a bag where I can just make scum appear like that. First suspect, Sly. If I were HoH I would even go that far enough and nominate a pro-town player just to ensure his eviction. If for some strange reason Sly was to be immune to the nomination, I'd go with Ani (I really liked the points brought up as of late. Is that a bad thing to agree with someone else case?) or with Sir (the numbers talk is often scumtalk, and I'm willing to go on that one).

I'm not seeing anything new being discussed. It is clear that most people want Sly lynched, and for good reason. Second to that looks like Animorph, but that doesn't even matter because Sly is going to be lynched. People mentioning "what if Sly gets veto'd" are just raising pointless scummy distractions. If someone PoV's Sly, then they're obvscum. It' snot going to happen,

This double voting/nomination system is unecessary and slanted to give scum more influence on the HoH's nominees while prolonging to game needlessly. Let's see things move.

I agree with this. Sly is the lynch for today.

[Kast]

@Sly-
-I posted thoughts and such after catching up. There's been some discussion on what I brought up, lot of "uh huh" "nuh uh" empty posts just to pad post history, and some attempts to distract from your lynch. Nice try.
-

Why do some of you sign up for Big Brother Mafia if you hate Big Brother so much. Try signing up for normal games if you don't like twists.

How about responding to what I actually posted? This double voting is unnecessary for our current game and gives scum more control over the two nominees than they should have. We should simply voice our suspicions and the HoH should simply pick based on the information available to him.

We have adopted a bad strategy that is giving scum more power to wiggle out of a lynch. I dislike the strategy, nothing about disliking the game. Your straw man is noted, though you're obvscum anyway so kinda pointless.
-I wasn't discussing the ad hom statement. How about actually reading the posts instead of being intentionally confusing? The issue I raised is that your claim that PE "saved" kmd and this somehow implicates KMD and PE makes no sense. Your claim would only make sense if KMD actually was in any danger of being lynched. He wasn't, so being veto'd is not an indicator of any affiliation between the two.

Making sure Sly doesnt have PoV. If he has PoV he will use it, and burn up our last one. If he claims to have PoV, or if no one claims to have PoV, it can be assumed that him (or ani) has it and is intending to get rid of the last one.

I have to say having NO PoVs around can get quite ugly quite quickly. Something where scum stumbles into HoH and puts up two people everyone thinks is town on their way down for instance.

False. If Sly is the town's preferred lynch target, then we should press for the lynch regardless of whether he has PoV. If he has PoV, then we force scum to either burn PoV instead of giving it to a teammate or potentially catch his teammate later if he passes it to someone. PoV is not a strictly town power. If Sly is town, then we result in a townie using PoV to prevent the lynch of someone he knows is a confirmed townie (himself) which is ideal usage for PoV. Most likely, he does not have PoV, so this is a mute topic that just serves to give him wiggle room to escape.

you gave Paltry support to waste a POV on a player who was in no danger of being evicted

You clearly understand this distinction, so you have no excuse for repeatedly claiming that PE was "saving" KMD. The only sensible explanations for PE using the PoV are:
-town who wants someone other than KMD and Hewitt lynched
-scum who wants to waste the PoV
Your claim that his reason was:
-save KMD (scum buddy or buddying action)
is completely senseless.

[hewitt]

Okay so I've actually pretty much made my decision on who I want to be nominated.

[pablito]

For what it's worth

vote:SlySly; vote:snow_bunny

I think the double voting strategy is helpful. It gives us much more information than we'd get if we only voted one person. It is not a distraction unless you tunnel so much that you make it a distraction. More information out in the open, more suspicion being exposed can only help us now.

FOS: Kast

Also this phrasing makes me suspicious:

If Sly is the town's preferred lynch target

, then we should press for the lynch regardless of whether he has PoV.

Just sounds like something scum would say. Too much attribution to town preference when in fact I'd say that Sly is the preferred target today.

Question to Sly: Suppose you find out post-nominations that you had received the PoV and you can use it on yourself. Would you?

I'd put more suspicion on Sironigous, but honestly can't say much more without him coming back.

[SlySly]

This double voting is unnecessary for our current game and gives scum more control over the two nominees than they should have. We should simply voice our suspicions and the HoH should simply pick based on the information available to him.

This double voting is exactly what is needed. Everyone should give their picks and their reasons for those picks to help the HoH make the most informed decision. The problem, and was the same while I was HoH, is that not enough of the players are doing what should be a simple thing. 2/13 gave reasons for their picks on Day 1. That is unacceptable. When it was time for a replacement, about half participated. That is unacceptable as well.

Your claim would only make sense if KMD actually was in any danger of being lynched. He wasn't, so being veto'd is not an indicator of any affiliation between the two.

Wrong. You obviously haven't read the thread very closely. Now that I think of it, the reason Paltry would lie about when he received the HoH just became crystal clear.

Paltry had the POV when the game started. He lied so he could say the scenario I presented below is impossible. Since no one called him on it, he has been able to fly under the radar about it. Paltry never argued this statement about him having the POV at the beginning of the game but later came up with his lie about when he received it. Read up on the discussion we had about it. He used it quick so kmd could play his wasting of the POV off as playstyle as they discussed before the game and as I suggested here...

Sly, so we agree that the veto being used quickly was probably wrong, correct?

Yes. It was a hasty decision to use at that point and it killed discussion.

Because I thought your issue was the fact that it was used. If it was the speed of it, I can see that. Although

that seems more like a playstyle thing than a scumtell

.

The discussion of kmd vs. Sens would have made it more clear if it needed to be used at all. If the discussion made it clear one of you were town and the other was scum and the scum was being voted out, there would have been no reason to use it at all, unless of course the POV holder was scum and had to get their buddy off the block.

Calling the quick use "playstyle" could be a cover for Paltry. Paltry had POV at the start of the game. Assuming Paltry is scum, the plan of using it quickly if any buddies were put on the block to prevent such information being revealed, could have easily been discussed with the person being saved from the block instructed to present the exact "playstyle" argument that you have presented.

Not likely, but it is possible.

There are some very smart people that play this game and they just happen to be thinking ahead scum sometimes.

If the discussion revealed you were both scum, there would have been no reason to use the POV, unless, like stated before, the POV holder was scum and using it to save a buddy. If the discussion revealed you to both be town and the person the POV holder was planning to save was not getting the votes to evict, there would be no reason to use it.

If he has PoV, then we force scum to either burn PoV instead of giving it to a teammate or potentially catch his teammate later if he passes it to someone.

I don't have the POV.

You clearly understand this distinction, so you have no excuse for repeatedly claiming that PE was "saving" KMD.

See above and come out of denial.

[SlySly]

Question to Sly: Suppose you find out post-nominations that you had received the PoV and you can use it on yourself. Would you?

It would depend on who I was up against and how I felt about their alignment. For what it's worth, I think the POV has already been handed out and I don't have it.

[SlySly]

Calling the quick use "playstyle" could be a cover for Paltry.

Paltry had POV at the start of the game.

Assuming Paltry is scum, the plan of using it quickly if any buddies were put on the block to prevent such information being revealed, could have easily been discussed with the person being saved from the block instructed to present the exact "playstyle" argument that you have presented.

Paltry, why did you wait so long after I made this post to make the false claim of when you received the HoH?

[SlySly]

You should have posted your claim immediately after I made this post. If you say you didn't see it, not reading the thread = scumtell. kmd never disputed this theory either.

[farside22]

Nominations:

SlySly (5) Crazy, Mr Finch, Snow_Bunny, morph, pablito
Animorpherv (4) Crazy, MrFinch, PaltryExcuse, Kmd
Sironigous (1) PaltryExcuse
Kmd (1) SlySly
Paltry (1) SlySly
SnowBunny (2) Kmd, pablito


HOH nom's due Tuesday Dec 23, 5:54pm

[Kmd4390]

Same question to you kmd. How is this discussion helping the nomination process in anyway?

Your logic for suspecting Llama is almost as bad as your logic for suspecting me. I'm trying to help you see this, but I'm getting nowhere.

No. What made you think that?

This:

Who does everyone want as the next HOH? I'm not going to just take who everyone says, but I want input. I'm leaning Snow-Bunny.

Ok, I can see how you'd think that. Actually, to start the game, Snow was one of my bigger scum reads. She started to look more town, but managed to slip back up my scumlist.

I want to see who she does/doesn't nom if she's HoH. It was the same thing with Zwet. It helps us read those who don't make it easy. As I stated earlier, I have a hard time reading Snow. Forcing her to make two noms would help me make connections if there are connections to make.

We have to remember that there are two scumgroups. Even if Snow is scum, maybe we evict scum from the other group if she's HoH. And if we can get a better read on her at the same time, we're in good shape. That's kind of why I want to see who she suspects and have been trying to get her to actually scumhunt. Even scum should be scumhunting (for the other group), so there's no excuse not to scumhunt.

You should have posted your claim immediately after I made this post. If you say you didn't see it, not reading the thread = scumtell. kmd never disputed this theory either.

Wait, what's the theory and why am I disputing it?

[Kmd4390]

After some ISO scans, I want the following:
-Pablito's detailed thoughts on Animorph
-Paltry's reasons for going from a huge town read on Sly to an apparent scum read, yet no nom vote on Sly.

[Mr Finch]

Paltry and the uber quick use of the POV to pull KMD out of the fire got to me. As others have already stated, it was almost a given that Sens would have been lynched given the choices and yet it was still used.

*blink* You're implying that Sens/hewitt being lynched would be a good thing? You said you thought both bv/hewitt were town![/quote]

Your statement misses a number of things:

At the time (when Paltry used the POV) Sens had not been replaced by Hewitt and KMD was still up. Yes, I would have been happy with a Sens lynch then. The way he was playing was scummy to me while KMD was playing town. In that situation I would have been happy with a Sens lynch.

Lots of things changed. Sens was replaced by Hewitt who played much better and with a huge town read. KMD was also POV'd by Paltry to put BV310 in.

BV also gave me a town read. I had to vote for one or face being modkilled. I felt that Hewitt was the better town player so I voted for BV.

Does that make sense? I now need to read the next two pages and will post again I hope.

[Mr Finch]

Mostly, I think paltry used the pov to make himself look better, when it really wasn't used to the full benefit of the town.

Still, if the majority of the town preferred a hewitt lynch to a Kmd lynch, but a bv lynch over a hewitt lynch, then he used the PoV in a way that most of the town

liked.

I can't say that doing something the town

likes

is scummy.

Again, you're confusing things. Most of the town preferred a

Sens

lynch to a Hewitt lynch because of the scummy way that Sens was playing. I explained this in my last post.

This double voting/nomination system is unecessary and slanted to give scum more influence on the HoH's nominees while prolonging to game needlessly. Let's see things move.

Why do some of you sign up for Big Brother Mafia if you hate Big Brother so much. Try signing up for normal games if you don't like twists.

QFT. I am loving this game!

I have read the rest of the thread and don't know where to go. All these recent posts are still focussing on the POV, the definition of Ad Hom and the whole confusing KMD/Sly/Llama thing.

It's easy to solve. Get rid of Sly. If he turns town then we need to look hard at KMD/Llama.

[PaltryExcuse]

Calling the quick use "playstyle" could be a cover for Paltry.

Paltry had POV at the start of the game.

Assuming Paltry is scum, the plan of using it quickly if any buddies were put on the block to prevent such information being revealed, could have easily been discussed with the person being saved from the block instructed to present the exact "playstyle" argument that you have presented.

Paltry, why did you wait so long after I made this post to make the false claim of when you received the HoH?

Leading question much? You can call it a falseclaim, but I still got the PoV just after you got HoH. Honestly, I missed it during my catch up after my V/LA.

You should have posted your claim immediately after I made this post. If you say you didn't see it, not reading the thread = scumtell. kmd never disputed this theory either.

It was one line in a WoT. Like I said, I was catching up at the time and was focusing more on getting out my town read on SensFan. Missing one line in an entire game is not 'not reading the thread'. That's a gross exaggeration.

After some ISO scans, I want the following:
-Pablito's detailed thoughts on Animorph
-Paltry's reasons for going from a huge town read on Sly to an apparent scum read, yet no nom vote on Sly.

If you have noticed, I haven't said that I think Sly is scum guaranteed. I still haven't decided if I think Sly is loopy or scummy. I am leaning towards scummy, however, I think Sir and Ani or more definitely scum. They tread the middle ground so often it's insane. Sly's high on the list, but he's not first or second for me... despite the fact I don't understand his behaviour and find him annoying at times.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry, an the ISO scan, I went to your posts and hit ctrl+f and typed in "Sly". Everything I read in the beginning looked like a boner-hard town read on him. At the point in the game where people start to turn on Sly, your mentioning of Sly is all questioning and criticizing him. Maybe you don't directly call him scummy (until your wishy washy answer just now), but it's clear you've dropped your hard town read. My question to you still stands. Why?

[Crazy]

See I'd like to see animorpherv get evicted because I think he's an anti-town unhelpful player. But it sounds like you'd like to see him get evicted because you think he was buddying up to SensFan, who is now me. And unless animorpherv was attempting to buddy up to a floater (which I'm not sure if he's smart enough to do) an animorpherv nomination/eviction for THAT reason does not make sense to me.

Ani wasn't buddying up to Sens; he was on his wagon on REALLY bad reasoning.

Anyway, Sly and Ani are my top two, I'd be happy with either of them being evicted.

All those who throw out nomination suggestions without giving reasons why are being thrown out, I'm not even considering them. This includes...

Bleh, I've explained my suspicions of Sly and ani before, I just happened not to say them

in that post

!

Sly is scummy for putting up nominations almost completely against the wishes of the town.
Ani is scummy for wanting Sensfan evicted essentially because of replacing out. Yeah.

hewitt was already up. If hewitt had not played the way he has played and changed my opinion of his alignment, I would have put you up against him because I felt you had played the most town-like game up to that point. I feel in that case, hewitt would have been evicted over you. Because hewitt's play had changed my mind about his alignment, I didn't put you up against him. I have already clearly stated this before.

Yes, you have stated that clearly before. I understand.

BUT, putting me up would be a breach of your own policy that you would put up your top two scum suspects. Do you acknowledge that, or deny it?

@KMD-937 - Okay.

Again, you're confusing things. Most of the town preferred a Sens lynch to a Hewitt lynch because of the scummy way that Sens was playing. I explained this in my last post.

I'm not talking about how hewitt "redeemed" Sensfan... that's irrelevant.

What I'm talking about is if it had remained Kmd vs. hewitt, then hewitt would have been lynched. Thus, Paltry used the POV in a way that was satisfactory, because it removed a less preferred nomination (Kmd) in return for a more preferred nomination (bv).

Everyone:

- I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier... but why doesn't the person with the POV just claim? This is a nightless game, so they can't be killed by scum.

[Kmd4390]

Everyone:

- I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier... but why doesn't the person with the POV just claim? This is a nightless game, so they can't be killed by scum.

Ok.

I won't use it.

[hewitt]

Ani wasn't buddying up to Sens; he was on his wagon on REALLY bad reasoning.

Before the nominations ani was definitely buddying up to SensFan and then flipped 180 when SensFan was nominated.

[hewitt]

I choose to nominate SlySly and Snow_Bunny for eviction

[SlySly]

BUT, putting me up would be a breach of your own policy that you would put up your top two scum suspects. Do you acknowledge that, or deny it?

I didn't put you up. So, whether it would be or not, doesn't matter.

[Crazy]

I choose to nominate SlySly and Snow_Bunny for eviction

I like those choices.

I didn't put you up. So, whether it would be or not, doesn't matter.

I suppose. Yet, you did put bv up, and he wasn't your top suspect.

[SlySly]

It's easy to solve. Get rid of Sly. If he turns town then we need to look hard at KMD/Llama.

Don't forget about Paltry.