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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:20 pm

Post by pablito »

Voting whoever has the most votes is one of the worst reasons to vote someone.

Two people voted within seconds of the final vote count. There was sure reason that both bv and Sir voted when they did, and it was to be sure that Sly was voted out. Now, bv I can understand the timing of the vote. But Sir previewed his post to be able to do the strikeout but still voted. If Sly comes up floater, I'll look at Sir for quick hammering. And if you look at it, three votes within 5 hrs...which considering deadline is still far away, I consider that to be effectively moving momentum into an irrevocable lynch.

There are six votes on Sly(as you had already counted Sironigous), and there are ten voters, therefore we already know that Sly is dead in the water. The remaining three voters can simply jump and put votes down and this could effectively end the day and lead us to the next hoh.

Question to mod:
if all votes are received early does this mean that day ends once all votes are received?

I'm going to assume yes. This means that once Sly is lynched we find the next HoH. But I would rather linger right now and look at all the information we kinda just got. I consider this twilight phase. We all know who's lynched, don't know the result, but there's no damn good reason why we shouldn't keep talking.

In fact, I wonder what Sly will say now. He's dead, but he can still contribute.
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:36 pm

Post by Sironigous »

pablito wrote:Voting whoever has the most votes is one of the worst reasons to vote someone.
Arghh. As I said, I wanted both of them lynched. Hewitt picked great noms; I felt both of them were scummy in their own right (I did say I was leaning Sly but eh...)...
Basically if I were a vig I'd hit both of them. -_-
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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:39 pm

Post by pablito »

Sir, if you're picked as HoH, who do you put up then and why?
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:04 pm

Post by SlySly »

anyone willing to put up kmd and paltry tomorrow?
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:11 am

Post by farside22 »

Question to mod: if all votes are received early does this mean that day ends once all votes are received?
This is a holiday week and frankly I will be busy on Sunday myself. If I see all the votes are in on Saturday then yes I will end the day on Saturday if not this may strength out to Monday because of the holiday's.
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:15 am

Post by farside22 »

Host: It is offical that SlySly has been evicted but let's hear from our last few voters and what they want.

sly (6) animorpherv1, MrFinch, Kast, Crazy, BV310, Sironigous
Snow (1) Kmd

Not voted:


Llamafluff
PaltryExcuse
pablito

Votes are due by Sunday Dec 27, 4:30pm PST
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:01 am

Post by PaltryExcuse »

Kmd4390 wrote:I find it interesting that your entire view of his posting has changed from positive to negative though. If I were to put + and - signs by your implied opinion of him each time you mention him, the beginning of the game would be nothing but + while everything after a certain point becomes -. It doesn't look like something that one action naturally causes. Not much changed in Sly's posting, so it's all the way you percieve him or want us to think you percieve him. I find it very interesting.
I think it was very much a progression thing. The first thing that I didn't like was his conversation with SensFan. SensFan came off pro-town to me, and Sly had previously. Their reasons for suspecting each other seemed odd, and I was vocal here and here that I Sly was the best of the three final choices town seemed to be making. I chose to stay on a bandwagon, and that bandwagon was Sly's.
Here, I state that I don't like Sly already designing possible scum teams. It is the beginning of me really not following or liking Sly's logic.
From then on I start questioning Sly's logic, I use the veto as I thought both you and hewitt to be town, and Sly's replacement nominee is put up with ridiculous reasons. At this point, I find him scummy.

I'm going to
Vote: Snow_Bunny

Sly was scummy for the following reason for the most part for me:
Sly's DisCode nomination still rankles me. If you thought Llama was scum, you should've put him up. Would hewitt have been lynched? I don't know. You say I cut off the conversation that would have happened of kmd vs. SensFan because of my veto, well you negated Llama vs. SensFan. Either way, DisCode was put up for ridiculous reasons.
However, Sly has been scumhunting, and willingly put himself on the line with his nominations. Secondly, in many ways, Sly has been rapidly voted as the lynch today. Few questions were asked to Snow_Bunny, and she got away without telling us much. Snow_Bunny's activity has been minimal, and as has been stated only really talks when talked to.
So, Snow_Bunny:
The reasons why people wanted you lynched (not much scumhunting, goes with group) are similar to the reasons why you want your two, remaining prime suspects lynched, Ani and Sironigus. If they're scummy, why aren't you? Basically, what have you done differently that sets you apart from these two?
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:34 am

Post by SlySly »

Interesting, I get hammered for going against the majority suggestions and now the 2 people I have been saying are scum the whole time go against the majority and vote to keep me around. I have to give them my admiration for flying under the radar so effectively.
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:36 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

SlySly wrote:Interesting, I get hammered for going against the majority suggestions and now the 2 people I have been saying are scum the whole time go against the majority and vote to keep me around. I have to give them my admiration for flying under the radar so effectively.
I've called Snow scummy all game. I haven't called you scummy. Also, Paltry's vote doesn't mean a thing because you were already evicted.
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:43 am

Post by SlySly »

Kmd4390 wrote:
SlySly wrote:Interesting, I get hammered for going against the majority suggestions and now the 2 people I have been saying are scum the whole time go against the majority and vote to keep me around. I have to give them my admiration for flying under the radar so effectively.
I've called Snow scummy all game. I haven't called you scummy.
I didn't say you called me scummy.
Kmd4390 wrote: Also, Paltry's vote doesn't mean a thing because you were already evicted.
All votes mean something whether they have an effect on the eviction or not.
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:46 am

Post by SlySly »

pablito wrote: In the first bb mafia, scum did nothing to indicate their own partners - did not send each other the pov, did not make a buddy hoh and put each other down. the place where bussing was less likely to occur was when it came to actual votes.
I'm sure this game will play out exactly as the first one did.
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:52 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Well you made a point about how I voted. I explained my reasons.

Yes, all votes mean "something" I guess. But a vote cast to evict is different from a vote cast after an eviction has already occurred.
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:33 pm

Post by Crazy »

Personally, I don't see Sir's "quickhammer" being scummy in any regard. Note that he could have chosen to wait a little while and then vote and still end up evicting Sly, since none of the others would be allowed to unvote, and Sly was at L-1.

So, pablito, is the fact that the hammer was a "quickhammer" a big deal, or is it only because he said he would vote for whoever had the most votes?
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:41 pm

Post by pablito »

the latter. if we consider how votes may end up falling...well we might have a 6-4 vote on our hands (with lots of late votes though...). Thus, he could've actually given us a tie vote if he wanted to. So he could have actually been forced to make a choice to put it back to hewitt, but decided not to.

I do think it could've been interesting to see how paltry would've voted if sly was already dead though. and sir took that opportunity away from us. so in that way, it can be seen as scummy as well.
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:12 pm

Post by Crazy »

pablito wrote:I do think it could've been interesting to see how paltry would've voted if sly was already dead though. and sir took that opportunity away from us. so in that way, it can be seen as scummy as well.
You seriously think Sir is crafty enough to see that consequence? Scum that are that crafty aren't the same scum that will vote for someone because "they have more votes."
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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by bv310 »

Yeah, but they are the scum who would vote for someone they know isn't scum, and use the reasoning that they have the most votes.

I'm not a fan of Sir's vote there. If he wanted to put Sly at L-1, he should have left it after I voted and not voted at all. I didn't realize that I was putting him at L-1 though. Hammering him like that is just robbing us of a LOT of potential conversation.

Ah well, que sera sera. Let's see which faction Sly was on.
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:40 pm

Post by farside22 »

The coup d'etat has been claimed. Someone won the power to over throw the HOH. Whoever that player is they must use this prize by day 8 (game day 8) and on that day they must use it after or before if they want the HOH declares his/her nom's. Between now and then I will ask the holder if they wish to use this power.

The answer to the puzzles were as follows:

Puzzle 1
The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.
Puzzle 2
Fly by the seat of your pants
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Post by Kast »

@KMD-
Your response is a much better post.

-Sly pushing for an early deadline to cutoff more town input was scummy. Sly arguing that HoH should listen to majority opinions, then going completely against that is contradictory and scummy. Sly's replacement nomination of DC was scummy. Your implication that others think it is scummy because it goes against their beliefs is false. It is scummy because the reasons he provided don't really stand up and because it is inconsistent with his previously stated suspicions. Instead of going for a scummy target, he went for something a "safe" mislynch.

-Your "reasons" for SB being scummy are all passive and equivalent to saying she is lurking and/or active lurking. These are all soft/weak scum tells. Someone who is actively scummy is a much better target.

Regardless of how you and I may feel about SB, Hewitt has stated that he thinks Animorph is actively scummy and that SB is just scummy by virtue of being lurky. Given that Hewitt also supports town providing input for HoH and HoH at least partially listening to the input, it is inconsistent that Animorph was not nominated instead of SB. Again, this is minorly excusable since Sly is clearly the best lynch for today, so the second target is not *as* important.

-You might not personally think Hewitt would point it out, but he HAS and he HAS said the interaction between SF and Animorph is indicative of scum. It is a scumtell and happens more often when the replacing player is scum than when the replacing player is town.

@Coup d'etat-
I won it. I don't plan to overturn decisions unless I strongly feel the HoH is scum AND/OR the HoH's targets are horrendous.
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:50 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

I'm not gonna defend Sly point by point because he's already been evicted, but I don't agree with your points against him.

My points on Snow are different than active lurking.

Example of active lurking:
Me-"Mod, please prod Snow"
Snow-"I'm here. Catching up."
Me-"Wasn't Snow catching up?"
Snow-"Sorry, this is taking longer than I thought."

Example of my points on Snow:
Snow-"Some people might be scummy I guess"
Me-"Like who?"
Snow-"I don't know. Whoever everyone else says I guess."
Me-"Why are they scummy"
Snow-"Reason XYZ that people have said all along"
Me-"People said that already"
Snow-"Ok, here's my thoughts on everyone"
*Snow posts opinions on 7 players that all basically say maybe town, maybe scum*

Ok, so I exaggarated it a little this time, but I want you to see the point. But yeah, I'd consider Snow "actively scummy". I think she is the most likely player to be scum right now.

About Hewitt, I can understand your stance, but I still think Hewitt is town.
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:17 am

Post by Sironigous »

pablito wrote:Sir, if you're picked as HoH, who do you put up then and why?
Hey neat!

For sure, my first nomination would be
Snow_Bunny
-
for no means did I think of her not scummy (I thought of Sly as scummier).

This would be for all the aforementioned reasons:
-acknowledging herself as a useless floater

Interesting too if Sly is scum... If he's not I guess it's null.
SlySly (post 376, page 16) wrote:Snow_bunny - seems pro-Town. Light contributions so far, but nothing stands out as scummy or anti-town to me. Could snow be genius scum flying way below the radar?


My second nomination is variable... If Sly is scum it would be
saberwolf/BV
-

Primarily based on saberwolf...

Remember, saberwolf was the TOP pick pre-HOH period - Sly even said he would nominate him. Somehow he managed to slide by without even a nomination. He hasn't said much different unto this point (heh). I see no reason for them not to be connected.

If Sly is town, I have no idea at the moment to be honest.
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:12 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:33 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Even though at this point its pure WIFOM

Vote Snow


Sly I obviously dont agree with about well, anything. He has made a lot of questionable decisions while in charge that ended up buringing a PoV and getting town evicted. Im not against a lynch of him in the least bit. No doubt I would want him gone by a lylo situation.

However, I think that the (lack of) participation from Snow is a little worse then the (lack of) judgement from Sly. Maybe its a scummy vs WIFOMy thing for the Sly lynch, and maybe its simply setting a precidence that we shouldnt put up with crap. Both are good lynch reasons, but SB has done nothing.

The first opinions given by Snow at all are Sly being scummy for noms, summarized by quoting what I said about having town reads on them (or lack of read for DC).

The Sly lynch is a great one, the Snow lynch is a little bit better so im voting there to make a point, even though its useless now. Tomorrow ani and snow need to be up, and the day after that whatever one isnt evicted there gets evicted next.
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:30 pm

Post by bv310 »

Snow seemed pretty null to me before, but the genuine lack of defense when nominated has put her into scummy. She knew that Sly was acting scummy, and so she just left him to dig his own grave. The only reason my vote went to Sly and not Snow was the fact that I've been suspicious of Sly's general play so far.
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:17 pm

Post by Crazy »

I really hope Sly is scum. If he wasn't, that would be seriously annoying. I'd think a townie wouldn't deviate so much from the wishes of the town.

I've just realized my opinion of Snow is shaken every time Kmd's opinion of Snow changes (and I believe his opinion has gone from scum -> town -> scum). I also find that annoying because I want to follow my own instincts but apparently I'm not confident enough in any of them (for a short period I even thought SLY was town!)

Bleh, rant over.
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:24 pm

Post by animorpherv1 »

Crazy wrote:I really hope Sly is scum. If he wasn't, that would be seriously annoying. I'd think a townie wouldn't deviate so much from the wishes of the town.

I've just realized my opinion of Snow is shaken every time Kmd's opinion of Snow changes (and I believe his opinion has gone from scum -> town -> scum). I also find that annoying because I want to follow my own instincts but apparently I'm not confident enough in any of them (for a short period I even thought SLY was town!)

Bleh, rant over.
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