Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[PaltryExcuse]

To make sure I understand you Paltry, your case against me is that I don't post much, right?

My case against you deals more with I don't see you scumhunting, and your inactivity compounds the fact you don't seem to need to. It's not a strong case, I'll admit, but you don't really give much to work with at all, and that scares me.
And more people are coming. (I guess I'm posting in twos, but it's definitely alphabetical order, and not of scumminess.)

Ok, sorry about that. Didn't look at timing of your posts.

As for my lack of posting, the last three weeks have been weird for me access-wise. I didn't want to give excuses though, so I didn't say anything. Other than that, I haven't really seen anything to go on that hasn't already been said. This is only my third Mafia game so I don't know what to look for. I know this sounds like an excuse, but I want to be straightforward here.

Also also, I thought you said you were going most scummy to least scummy, not alphabetical.

No, I prefer you were straightforward. This is actually only my 4th game, so the newbie excuse can't work with me. But, I understand feeling overwhelmed and access problems (see recently, plus using my roomie's comp now).
In case it wasn't clear: I'll give a list of who I think is most scummy => least scummy after I have given out all of my reads.

I'm really mentally drained, so I'm taking a break from this again. Give me a couple hours, depending on if my roomie needs his compy then.

[animorpherv1]

@animorpherv1: My point is that it is rare you try to scumhunt, and when you do, your conclusions seem illfounded (Sly was not easily manipulated by my read of his actions) or just illogical (SensFan was scummy because he flaked).

More later.

Noo, SensFan was scummy because he asked to be replaced for a bad reason.

[Kast]

@Coup d'etat-
I do not plan to use it today.

so we can assume Kast is HoH day 8.

This is probable.

@Hewitt-
Calm down. Your emotional outbursts and insults are a sharp deviation from your previous behavior and are reminiscent of your predecessor's (SensFan) typical anti-game MO. Your attempt to distract from arguments by insulting are textbook ad hom.

Your decision to nom me in the event that you become HoH after I didn't back down from pointing out your inconsistencies and potential scumtells is classic OMGUS.

Initially you acknowledged my points and said I was entitled to my opinion (read: you tried to appease me). When this failed, you added me as your top nom NOT because of anything I have done, but simply because I have the coup d'etat. The only reason you provide is a blatant example of fearmongering.

-Using possession of the Coup d'etat as the reason for nominating Kast allows a scum HoH to absolve themselves from actual scumhunting and from any responsibility if the day ends with a mislynch.

-Preserving the Coup d'etat power allows town to test Kast if a situation arises where a scum-HoH reveals himself.

-If scum-Kast used coup d'etat in any situation other than immediate game win, it would have to be used in a pro-town manner OR it would result in scum-Kast being lynched the following day (and almost definitely reveal one scumbuddy). This has been pointed out multiple times.

-Hewitt's fearmongering situation is almost impossible to enter into. In order for scum-Kast to survive after using Coup d'etat, scum-Kast must either have a teammate who will be nominated as HoH (and no PoV active) OR scum-Kast must be part of mafia B with ALL members alive and use Coup d'etat on Day 8.

-Any other use of Coup d'etat must happen in a pro-town manner, which would STILL draw attention to Kast, regardless of Kast's affiliation.

-From just the odds, having a townie with Coup d'etat power who can save the town in the event that Mafia B is HoH on Day 8 is equivalent to Hewitt's fearmongering situation in which a member of Mafia B receives and uses Coup d'etat power on Day 8.

@PE-
Crazy is actually attempting to scumhunt today. I defended your previous decision to use the PoV, although I disagreed with your decision to use it. I don't think that it was inherently scummy, but it certainly wasn't a town indicator.

You are also a more information rich lynch as a result of more interactions with other players. While unlikely, it is also still possible that kmd's suspicions of you could turn out to be true.

Neither of you are an ideal choice; but it is a complete misrepresentation to claim that I find either of you to be extremely likely to be town (or even likely enough town that you are worth saving).

@Christmas/New Year/Winter Break Period-
Nobody should be held scummy for less access during the past two weeks. Holidays are busy for everyone and there's nothing wrong with spending time with family and friends.

Also, I'll be out of town from Wednesday til Sunday. I should have intermittent access during this time.

[PaltryExcuse]

Calm down. Your emotional outbursts and insults are a sharp deviation from your previous behavior and are reminiscent of your predecessor's (SensFan) typical anti-game MO. Your attempt to distract from arguments by insulting are textbook ad hom.

Examples of ad hom would be appreciated.

Your decision to nom me in the event that you become HoH after I didn't back down from pointing out your inconsistencies and potential scumtells is classic OMGUS.

Initially you acknowledged my points and said I was entitled to my opinion (read: you tried to appease me). When this failed, you added me as your top nom NOT because of anything I have done, but simply because I have the coup d'etat. The only reason you provide is a blatant example of fearmongering.

-Using possession of the Coup d'etat as the reason for nominating Kast allows a scum HoH to absolve themselves from actual scumhunting and from any responsibility if the day ends with a mislynch.

-Preserving the Coup d'etat power allows town to test Kast if a situation arises where a scum-HoH reveals himself.

Although the first could be true, the second is a false situation. If the entire town thinks that the HoH is scum, then you using the Coup d'Etat is appeasement.

-If scum-Kast used coup d'etat in any situation other than immediate game win, it would have to be used in a pro-town manner OR it would result in scum-Kast being lynched the following day (and almost definitely reveal one scumbuddy). This has been pointed out multiple times.

-Hewitt's fearmongering situation is almost impossible to enter into. In order for scum-Kast to survive after using Coup d'etat, scum-Kast must either have a teammate who will be nominated as HoH (and no PoV active) OR scum-Kast must be part of mafia B with ALL members alive and use Coup d'etat on Day 8.

-Any other use of Coup d'etat must happen in a pro-town manner, which would STILL draw attention to Kast, regardless of Kast's affiliation.

How I feel about the Coup d'Etat and PoV? If you think the noms suck, you try to change them. If you think both are town, you try and change them.

-From just the odds, having a townie with Coup d'etat power who can save the town in the event that Mafia B is HoH on Day 8 is equivalent to Hewitt's fearmongering situation in which a member of Mafia B receives and uses Coup d'etat power on Day 8.

True enough. The only reason I'd want you nommed is if I thought you were scum in order to force you to use the power on town's terms, not your terms.

@PE-
Crazy is actually attempting to scumhunt today. I defended your previous decision to use the PoV, although I disagreed with your decision to use it. I don't think that it was inherently scummy, but it certainly wasn't a town indicator.

You are also a more information rich lynch as a result of more interactions with other players. While unlikely, it is also still possible that kmd's suspicions of you could turn out to be true.

Neither of you are an ideal choice; but it is a complete misrepresentation to claim that I find either of you to be extremely likely to be town (or even likely enough town that you are worth saving).

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that in that first post you seemingly had me at most pro-town. That has since changed, and Crazy has now at the very least taken my place. I never said anything that you find me to be EXTREMELY pro-town, or anything about being saved. I wondered when Crazy became less worth voting for than yours truly, something I don't feel that has been addressed.

@Christmas/New Year/Winter Break Period-
Nobody should be held scummy for less access during the past two weeks. Holidays are busy for everyone and there's nothing wrong with spending time with family and friends.

Also, I'll be out of town from Wednesday til Sunday. I should have intermittent access during this time.

If this is directed at me and my thing with bv, I've taken that into consideration.


...I should focus on my list.

[Snow_Bunny]

Right now,

Vote: Crazy

As I've said before, I see Paltry as strong town. On Crazy I have not that feeling. I think both are town, but I think Paltry is a better townie than Crazy.

I wonder why Kmd ending up not nominating me. I can see a scum-Kmd not nominating me and instead nominating two good town players, for two good reasons: lure a possible town-Kast into using the Coup-thingy; getting rid of one of two good town players; and finally leave weak and easy targets for other days. It's basically as a scum-NK: trying to get rid of strong town players while leaving behind the weak ones for day myslinches. Yes, I know that Kmd gave his reasons behind this choice, but still, it all could fit.

It's a shame we are redoing D1 again. D:

[Kmd4390]

2) Arguing with you has been very enjoyable, and I hope to play with you again.

Heh, I actually have to agree.

Paltry, I have to admit I'm impressed with your last few posts. Especially seeing that this is your 4th game (:shock:) and then looking at your join date.

[Crazy]

Noo, SensFan was scummy because he asked to be replaced for a bad reason.

*headdesk* Being replaced can't be scummy! I can't believe you're still holding on to that!

I have to ask however: Do you still find Mr. Finch scummy?
Now that Kmd has deviated immensly from the town, do you think Kmd is scummy?

I find them both scummy to some degree. To what degree, I'm not sure at the moment (gotta read back). However, I think we can all agree that Kmd's nominations are strictly

less

scummy than Sly's nominations. This is WIFOM, but it's less likely that Kmd-scum would do the same thing that got Sly-scum evicted. Do I still find his nominations scummy? Yes, but I'm second-guessing that constantly.

Kmd, if you're scum, you have successfully confused me!

[Kast]

Listen nobody is that fucking stupid.

Calling people who hold a particular viewpoint "fucking stupid" IS blatant ad hom.

if I were to be tapped as HoH you better expect your ass to be going up to get rid of that shit.

Rather than actually showing how the Coup d'etat is a bad thing, he instead just calls it "shit" and appeals to emotion/fearmongers.

Nominate: Kast

Clear OMGUS. His opinion was stated previously, he only made this 'nomination' after it was clear that I would not back down and let him hide.

Because honestly if I had to pick a player to hold the town's decision in their hands it would not be him.

He attempts to "prove" his point by attacking my decision making ability divorced from the actual decisions. Clear ad hom since he has admitted agreement with my noms (AM and Saber are his choices just below SB).

Kast there's no point in being bitter about it,

Belittling my posts as "being bitter" instead of addressing them.

I don't know how you can't see that from another player's perspective, that is the smartest route to take.

More belittling instead of explaining his position.

What the fuck are you talking about? There are soooo many things wrong with this post it's not even funny.

Emotional attack. Supporting points are re-hash of the attack without providing support.
1. Hewitt contradicts self after acknowledging my attacks.
2. -
3. Emotional appeal instead of explanation.
4. Read your posts. Repeatedly posting, "What the fuck are you talking about?" is clearly throwing a fit. Throwing a fit instead to avoid answering a post is scummy.
5. More emotional appeal and ignoring my posts.
6. Since Hewitt isn't actually reading the game, it's obvious he isn't seeing things.

I wouldn't nominate Kast to evict him, he most certainly would not be at the top of my list if I were tapped as HoH.

Vote: Paltry
Nominate: Kast

Contradiction.

Oh and right now at this point

This alone is a clear admission that his nomination is OMGUS. At present, Hewitt's "reason" to nom me is still potential "DOOM" from scum-Kast using Coup d'etat. Yet, there were no posts or changes in opinion or decisions which could affect the likelihood of Hewitt's "DOOM" scenario. The only "change" that happened was Hewitt tried to appease me, and I didn't back down.

[Kast]

My point was that in that first post you seemingly had me at most pro-town.

Not sure where you're drawing that from. In my first post, the only person I actually listed with a probable town was saber, and that was a weak read.

I had some suspects, I had a lot of neutral players, and I had 3 positive reads (one of which was gut town and was not you).

Since then, Crazy has appeared to genuinely be scumhunting, although I disagreed with his conclusion from hunting. You have stayed pretty much the same.

the second is a false situation. If the entire town thinks that the HoH is scum, then you using the Coup d'Etat is appeasement.

Refusal to use Coup d'etat would be scum indicative (fail the test), whereas agreement to use the Coup d'etat would be null. Your assumption about the second would be false, however, your assumption is not what I posted.

[Kast]

As an example of ad hom in kind with Hewitt's post:

the second is a false situation. If the entire town thinks that the HoH is scum, then you using the Coup d'Etat is appeasement.

"What the fuck? You can't be so stupid that you believe the shit you posted."

Note the difference between explaining a position and making an ad hom attack/dismissal.

[Crazy]

@bv - I think you missed this.

I'm not overly convinced with the case on either of the noms, but of the two I find Crazy more suspicious. He's been really defensive whenever someone hasa mentioned him, and his explanation really has not been convincing.

It sounds to me like you're copying what other people have said. Can you point to specific examples. (Preferably to before I was nominated, because when you're nominated there's really no limit to how defensive you should be, since you're at direct risk.)

[Crazy]

As I've said before, I see Paltry as strong town.

On Crazy I have not that feeling. I think both are town, but I think Paltry is a better townie than Crazy.

Where specifically have you pointed out Paltry as strong-town? Your next most recent post regarding Paltry seemed to have a neutral-townish sort of way to it:

I must say, I can clearly see Sly-Finch, but I still don't see much on Paltry. It is true that D1 actions show some connections, but I can see that coming from townie as well.

[PaltryExcuse]

So I actually succeeded at alphabetical order, and then got it wrong later. I suck.

LlamaFluff

In all honesty, pre-day 1, I thought you were the most pro-town. I would've gladly nominated you for HoH when you started participating but didn't due to the deadline (instead I nominated Sly! Good decision!).
He pressured people who weren't making a decision on HoH, or who's decision for HoH seemed to be having little meaning.
He questioned animorph early on, asked for better explanations from others, and really just seemed to be playing logically.
Day 1 was good play again, with him showing Sly how his actions seemed to have made an 'anti-lynch' rather than a lynch. Town was trying to decide who was more so.
He was absent for much of Day 2, so there isn't much to read.
What bothers me is day 3. He just says he dislikes stuff. Or likes stuff. Or prefers certain things. I haven't really seen a case on anyone for awhile. I see his positions alot, but I don't see his reasonings. Things I don't know the answers to (that I'd reeeeally like to):
1) Why do you think both me and Crazy are townish? (This is actually unanswered by

many

, and doesn't make me happy in the slightest.)
2) Do you feel stronger or weaker about Ani being likely scum? Has he done anything recently that could've changed your mind?
3) You've argued about the use of the Coup d'Etat, but do you think Kast is town?
4) Why not name the other 5 people you want lynched over me? No reason to hold that information back now?

Overall, Llama has scumhunted, but I don't know if I know anything about his reasonings. I feel there's a knowledge gap. My read depends more on how he answers my questions. So: Neutral read. I surprised myself when it came to this conclusion.

Mr. Finch

Mr. Finch scared me pre-day 1 with his nomination of SensFan for HoH. At the time, SensFan had the post about using PJ's Kingmaker strategy... and that was it. Then when pressured, Finch unvoted.

What in this game gave you this impression?

Ya know what? In this game, I really don't know. I might be getting myself confused with the other game.

Have scanned all the previous posts in this game he's only posted one game related (rather than game setup) post in post 79 where he was talking about what he'd do if he were nominated HoH.

I know he's posting elsewhere on the site so has he forgotten the game, or is he lurking scum?

Un-nominate

MOD: I realise that we must vote for eviction or face modkilling, does the same apply for HOH nom?

I will

nominate: Discode

because since joining the game this player has posted the most comprehensive questions and reasoning, trying to keep discussion going and outing the scum. I feel that this is Town behaviour and Discode will do a good job of listening to town when nominating the evictees.

It has rankled me since. Why? I finally figured it out. It is not because he unvoted so quickly, but because he seemed to have no idea who he was voting for. Why would he throw a nomination out there if he hadn't even read the thread? What was the original nomination for? I DON'T KNOW.

From then on, I get the feeling he's following a bit, thing is he admits it.
He suspects Animorpherv (join the club), he suspected Sly (join a different club), he suspects Snow_bunny (another club). None of these suspicions were brought up by him, and really I don't see much talk about either Ani or Snow until he has to nominate (or decide whether to vote Sly / Snow_bunny).

Overall: Scummy.

[Crazy]

Remembered something... I really ought to have pushed this conversation further:

I do think it could've been interesting to see how paltry would've voted if sly was already dead though. and sir took that opportunity away from us. so in that way, it can be seen as scummy as well.

You seriously think Sir is crafty enough to see that consequence? Scum that are that crafty aren't the same scum that will vote for someone because "they have more votes."

No, I don't think Sironigous was clever enough to know that in advance. But there was acknowledgement that he was the lynching vote. That's something.

I see somewhat of a backtrack between pablito's first and second quote, here. Or at least it's showing a mentality of "It's scummy 'cuz it helps scum" rather than "It's scummy 'cuz scum would do it."

Pablito, if Sir couldn't have seen how his "hammer vote" helped scum, then how was it scummy?

[Snow_Bunny]

As I've said before, I see Paltry as strong town.

On Crazy I have not that feeling. I think both are town, but I think Paltry is a better townie than Crazy.

Where specifically have you pointed out Paltry as strong-town? Your next most recent post regarding Paltry seemed to have a neutral-townish sort of way to it:

I must say, I can clearly see Sly-Finch, but I still don't see much on Paltry. It is true that D1 actions show some connections, but I can see that coming from townie as well.

My bad. I was going to say another thing, and I ended up saying that. Still, that doesn't change my point on Paltry.

[PaltryExcuse]

Note: For all those reading this, the unnamed posts are Kast quoting me.

My point was that in that first post you seemingly had me at most pro-town.

Not sure where you're drawing that from. In my first post, the only person I actually listed with a probable town was saber, and that was a weak read.

I had some suspects, I had a lot of neutral players, and I had 3 positive reads (one of which was gut town and was not you).

You had 2 suspects (Ani and Sly, the most universally agreed upon noms) 3 positives (me, Crazy, and saber) and the rest were neutral. Not a good post. There was nothing anyone could glean from it.

PE-Pro-town/positive/possible links. I don't agree with the decision to use the PoV right away, however, I understand the usage and it is a playstyle disagreement, not anything affiliation indicative. I don't think there is enough information available on D1 for any townie to accurately determine that two other players are so likely to be town that one of them should be veto'ed. Clearly PE thought differently.

That's my name beside pro-town.

Since then, Crazy has appeared to genuinely be scumhunting, although I disagreed with his conclusion from hunting. You have stayed pretty much the same.

And I've not been? I thought I was. Darn.

the second is a false situation. If the entire town thinks that the HoH is scum, then you using the Coup d'Etat is appeasement.

Refusal to use Coup d'etat would be scum indicative (fail the test), whereas agreement to use the Coup d'etat would be null. Your assumption about the second would be false, however, your assumption is not what I posted.

My point is: You earned the power, you decide when to use it. If it's to save yourself, fine. If it's not, fine. If you think scum is HoH, use it. If you think the nominees are both town, use it (more this one). If town pressures you to use it, and you disagree with their reasoning, DON'T use it. Your situation remains appeasement.

About Ad Hom:
Ad Hom involves insulting the individual and discrediting them for it. Same example I gave earlier: "They have a poor scumhunting record, so they must be wrong this game."
Calling a move stupid, or saying that if people did certain things in situations is stupid or shit, is insulting that situation. Needlessly aggressive? Yes. Ad hom? No.

[PaltryExcuse]

Oh, and Kast, please use names when quoting people.

[PaltryExcuse]

2) Arguing with you has been very enjoyable, and I hope to play with you again.

Heh, I actually have to agree.

Paltry, I have to admit I'm impressed with your last few posts. Especially seeing that this is your 4th game (:shock:) and then looking at your join date.

Thanks.

[animorpherv1]

My question goes out to kmd:

If we evict Paltry, will you follow the group if you get nommhed HoH again.

[PaltryExcuse]

pablito/Grandi/whoot1234

whoot's barely worth mentioning, but it is a chance for me to complain.
If anyone ever brings up whoot's reasonless posts as a point against pablito, I won't be happy. Whoot was a troll: see this game. He's playing under the pseudonym SirPent. Watch me go crazy. It's fun!

Grandi is almost as un-influential. However, Grandi created the famous HoH application of Day 0 that got so much press. Then he flaked. A pro-town move though so minor points go to the slot.

Pablito's opening posts are golden and give me good feelings. He goes after Snow and Sir, two previously infrequently mentioned individuals.
And if you want to know who found me originally scummy for using the PoV when I did, then look no further. And his reasoning is the best for it: He thought I was too willing to use it, which would be a scumtell. Honestly, I was a bit scared at the time, but felt immediately afterwards (and still do) that I did the right thing.
He attacks Finch, Sly, and animorpherv.

But, probably the most telling thing for me about Pab's alignment is when he thinks someone is townish, he actually tries to back it up.
On Llama
On Kast

Really, just reading pablito gives me a pro-town feel. However, he has waited, both times, for the vote to have caused a lynch before he has voted. I really feel he is wrong in his reads, and could be giving a skewed version of things (this remains firmly unverified and is more of a guess as to how he came to his reads). Overall: Pabs is Neutral-leaning town.

Sironigous

For this round of what does Paltry think, we're going to quote... PALTRY! (Because my re-reading has changed nothing.)
Post 345:

I don't see what [KMD sees] in Sironigous. Before his most recent post, he hadn't done anything that would lean me to think a scumhunter.

Read this unresponded post about Sironigous.

Vote: Sironigous

A) I still don't think he's provided much in the way of scumhunting.
B) Upon looking back, I really don't like his reasons for wanting SensFan nominated.

Sensfan - expecting someone other than SlySly to be nominated for HoH after coming back to the game less than 2 days before deadline. The fact he's attacking SlySly now makes it even worse. (of course, this might change after he answers my previous post)

SensFan wanted to get someone else nominated for HoH because of his opinion on SlySly (which has been revealed to be correct). It's not like when you

need

a lynch on Day 1 and everyone begins bandwagoning. This was a nom for HoH, and SensFan wanted SlySly up for eviction. I don't see how either of these reasons were legitimate for a nomination.

He has never said a thing about me attacking him, and pops in whenever he's prodded. 'Nuff said. Read: Scummy.

[Kmd4390]

My question goes out to kmd:

If we evict Paltry, will you follow the group if you get nommhed HoH again.

I'd nominate who I think is scum.

If Paltry is scum, probably Finch with... I don't know, maybe Pablito?

If Paltry is town, probably like Snow and Animorph or something.

But I can't be HoH twice in a row.

[PaltryExcuse]

Last, but not least...

Snow_bunny

It's hard to know what to make of Snow_bunny. Early on she seemed focused on how ridiculous saber's play was, but much of the town was (and his play was baaaad.) The thing was, I actually liked when she originally went out on a limb to nominate Sir originally. His numbers talk was distracting. A lot of her points are based on others, which she admits freely.
Do you suspect someone for behaviour they admit to (she doesn't come up with her own cases really, just agrees with others)?

Reading her in ISO early on just makes me think of a lazy player. Scummy, but lazy.

Recently she's been more forthright with her own opinions, but spends as much time explaining them as before.

I don't mind the Llama nomination at all actually. Nominating a generally thought to be a pro-town player, for not explaining themself? I looked into it. I kinda agree with her.

Her recent vote to save me, confuses me when she mentions that she called me pro-town. I don't remember that at all. (And as Crazy points out, she hadn't.)

Really, I get a lazy scum vibe.

---

I want to make a couple comments on how people are scumhunting and hopefully change things.
Firstly: Connections are well and good but case they do not make. They can lead you to searching up another person but really you're going to need more detail than that.
Secondly: If you're going to say someone is town, say why. Crazy found me town because he liked certain posts of mine. Pabs finds people town and says why. That way, if they flip scum, your thoughts on the situation are clearer and harder to back out from. Also, it makes it so people can discuss why you felt that way before they flip. So if they have problems with your reasoning, they'll say so.
Thirdly: The Coup d'Etat and PoV are only pro-town if in pro-town hands. If you think they aren't, GET RID OF THEM. It can be false power, or just plain anti-town in the wrong hands (especially the Coup d'Etat).

[PaltryExcuse]

MOST SCUMMY

Sironigous
Kast (I really didn't like his recent responses)
Mr. Finch
Animorpherv1
Snow Bunny
bv310
LlamaFluff
hewitt
pablito
Kmd
Crazy

LEAST SCUMMY

Long story short: I WANT Kast nominated.

[PaltryExcuse]

EBWOP:
And Sir, but that's been obvious for days I thought.

[LlamaFluff]

He was absent for much of Day 2, so there isn't much to read.

I was pushing on SB for the latter half of the day. Absence was in part trying to sort out scumtell with what lynch made me happy, however based on smaller tells

What bothers me is day 3. He just says he dislikes stuff. Or likes stuff. Or prefers certain things. I haven't really seen a case on anyone for awhile. I see his positions alot, but I don't see his reasonings.

Im getting frustrated really. Ive wanted ani lynched for two days, and he has never gone up, I had secondary options, which arent being put up. There are others I would be happy to lynch, but they arent up. Its town v town right now I think, and I would rather just get as much information about them right now.

Things I don't know the answers to (that I'd reeeeally like to):
1) Why do you think both me and Crazy are townish? (This is actually unanswered by

many

, and doesn't make me happy in the slightest.)
2) Do you feel stronger or weaker about Ani being likely scum? Has he done anything recently that could've changed your mind?
3) You've argued about the use of the Coup d'Etat, but do you think Kast is town?
4) Why not name the other 5 people you want lynched over me? No reason to hold that information back now?

1) The strongest thing for you town is using PoV day one. Someone (now we know to be scum) put up two noms which no one agreed with, and instead of not claiming to have PoV (easy scum move) and doing nothing, you tried to take a player viewed as town off the block. The right move, where as scum it would of been amazingly easy to not make it and never get caught.

Crazy has been making moves that make perfect sense. They are all cleanly laid out and I can follow his thought process. All of the votes he has made match his thought process, no changes of heart there. His choice of noms are either my scum reads/dead scum or strong scum read/scum read. To an extent I see having the same thoughts as me as a town tell.

I think he was also one of the key players in getting Sly lynched over Snow. Being the pivital force in a scum lynch, even if according to reads its against another scum read, is big. He was the main one fighting Sly over points, and that scores points. He isnt trying to push a case on you for being up against him, he just looks town to me. I usually have a harder time explaining town reads, but I get very good town reads.

2) Stronger, he keeps latching back on the 'sens replaced out' tell, and isnt really putting together a comprehensable case on anyone (now or at a different stage)
3) I have him as slight scum. I would not be putting him up yet since I have stronger reads, and with any luck would have assoicative tells off them to figure out if he really is scum or not, as if he is scum him not using overthrow is best.
4) From scum to town right now (has shifted a bit since noms/actions) Ani, Snow, Sir, Kast, bv, finch, pablito, kmd, PE, hewitt, Crazy. Big gaps between kast and bv, finch and pablito. Hopefully that list helps clarift 3. Also my frustration over the current noms.

~Final plea for Kast to use the overthrow~