Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[curiouskarmadog]

so I missed that, and thus why it didnt make sense to me, thus why I asked.

so I am still one of scum suspects...why? same reason as when you first entered the game or have your reasons changed at all? In your opinion should I be cleared (for a werewolf)for the same reason you are in Lynx eyes?

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of comprehension, so that I completely understand.

you metaed Big, because of the reasons you stated...did you feel those actions were scummy..thus why you metaed?

[havingfitz]

<sound of crickets>

[dank]

Lowell reminds me of saber now. He's acting suspiciously, but he hasn't infuriated me like saber into voting him.

Paradox, did you vote saber because he infuriated you? You were very certain of the lynch, asking people to go on and hammer, but was your reasoning for it just a policy-ish annoyance? I'm looking back on your posts back then, and while you do say his behavior is anti-town, I don't really see you arguing how scummy he is, just that you want him gone and would be happy with it.

Was your reasoning for saber just anger and annoyance at him? Do you think that's a good way to carry out a D1 lynch?

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

One more thing I just noticed with a quick reread. Lowell's claimed that he's been on bmc before everyone else joined in, and never fell for saber's tricks.

Post 296:

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

Post 311

@ckd- saber has been an absolute disaster since the few pages when he was actually helpful. I'll hear out the replacement, but in general I'm not a huge fan of abandoning good wagons just to be nice to replacement.

Post 331

@paradox- I'm mostly just annoyed that when saber had a chance to do something useful, he basically absconded. A town player would be more likely to at least do something useful, even if he knew he was going out.

I'm not overwhelmed by Flave's entrance. In an early post he claimed to be skimming, his reread is scatterbrained, and his vote is now on the second vote leader behind himself.

Not once since the early pages where Lowell votes MC did he change his vote. The above posts I quote are interesting though; rather than push his choice of MC over saber, he seems to be supporting the saber wagon, even to the point of lessening the influence he thinks the replacement should have over saber's behavior. Why?

In a way, its the reverse of what Flava is accusing me of, minus actually bringing in new points. Lowell has his vote on MC, who we know is a werewolf, from the start, but seems to be reaching out to the other bandwagon to try to push it through anyway? These few posts differentiate him from others like CKD who were completely sold on an MC lynch. Lowell makes it look like he's sold on it, but why's he trying to help the other wagon at the same time? He even says "i'm not a fan of abandoning good wagons because of replacements" after saber is replaced. Lowell is not even on that wagon! He's had his vote on MC from the start! Why does he say this?

That all doesn't quite add up, and I don't think Lowell should be completely eliminated from werewolf possibility. He says how sure he was of the MC lynch now, but clearly tried to underhandedly push the saber wagon a bit when it was at its peak. Could be a clever wolf strategy to bus the partner right away, while seeing if town could go with someone else instead, but leave himself with enough credit to eliminate himself from consideration if the partner was lynched, like he was.. This, coupled with his silly idea with the pro-wolf seer hypoclaim makes me happy with my vote. I'd like to hear the rest of town's thoughts on these few posts.

Lowell- why did you make those posts that look like pushing a saber lynch, where it was clear you wanted MC gone?

Fitz- wanna say something useful?

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

will rephrase the question.

do you feel anyone yesterday thought you were scum?

[dank]

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

will rephrase the question.

do you feel anyone yesterday thought you were scum?

Sanhora argued a case on me, i dont think anyone else mentioned much.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD: Riding my ass? I assume you mean feeding off of my posts, and not that I can remember.

will rephrase the question.

do you feel anyone yesterday thought you were scum?

Sanhora argued a case on me, i dont think anyone else mentioned much.

ok, just curious if you had a problem admitting that...seeing that he was offed last night.

[havingfitz]

Fitz- wanna say something useful?

Useful is a matter of opinion. You didn't find my pre-cricket post useful? I think 17+ hrs is too long to go between posts so would a 'bump' have been better?

I have reread the game a few more times and I definitely think there are a few scum within Lowell-Paradoxombie-Dank-Lynx. I wouldn't say I have a confident town read on anyone, but the four above are the ones I am most inclined to consider scum.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx, why is Jazz obv not Big’s partner?

She doesn't look like a partner of BigMc because Flave and Big we're the leading candidates for a lynch. With Flave ahead in votes, many inactive players, and a deadline closing in, it would make no sense to completely swing the lynch towards your partner. This setup leaves little room for bussing and out of all the votes on BigMc she comes second to you for least likely wolves.

I like Dank's points against Lowell.

[Flava Flave]

I definitely think there are a few scum within Lowell-Paradoxombie-Dank-Lynx.

I like Fitz already.

[Lowell]

@dank- I wanted them both gone. I pointed out why saber pissed me off and why bigmc was a consummate sycophant. Look back and I was clearly on the bigmc wagon as much as anyone else. And there's no way a two-person team would bus on D1.

This is one of those see-what-you-want-to-see situations. Had saber been lynched and he turned up werewolf, dank would proabably be saying "Oh look, lowell said he wanted saber but kept his vote on bigmc. Derailment!"

I don't like that dank's case on me emerges just as the case against him is heating up. I see bits of OMGUS and a lot more kissing up to those he's tryign to win favor with.

[dank]

This is one of those see-what-you-want-to-see situations. Had saber been lynched and he turned up werewolf, dank would proabably be saying "Oh look, lowell said he wanted saber but kept his vote on bigmc. Derailment!"

Reverse saber and bigmc, and that's 100% the case flava's making on me, which is the reason you're voting for me this very moment.

So, is the case on me (and the reason you're voting me) also one of these see what you want to see situation? Interesting. Clearly, you're saying these types of cases don't mean much. Why are you supporting one of them?

[Lowell]

Interesting point. Let me go back and see if that holds water.

unvote

[Percy]

Hi guys, been having a rough time of it lately, I'm still reading and will post in the next day or so. Sorry all!

[Jazzmyn]

I went out last night right after work and didn't get home until after midnight, and then tonight I picked my daughter up after work and she's home for the night, so I will catch up on the latest and post tomorrow night (this site is blocked at my office).

Regards,
Jazz

[curiouskarmadog]

(yawn)..make sure you answer my last question (to you) Jazz.

[Jazzmyn]

Ok caught up,

After reading yesterday, Lynx, Jazz and dank look scummy…..

What is it that you find scummy about me, CKD?

so I missed that, and thus why it didnt make sense to me, thus why I asked.

This indicates that you are not really reading the game, but instead just skimming and trying to look like you're scumhunting when you really aren't.

so I am still one of scum suspects...why? same reason as when you first entered the game or have your reasons changed at all?

Primarily the same reasons, with some additions, some deletions, and some changes. Speaking of which, I have a few questions for you.
Who do you think is the last Werewolf? Why?
Who do you think is most likely to be a member of the Mafia, and why?
Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about Paradox for the entire game except for the single word, "noted"?
Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about the Ginz/dana/havinfitz slot for the entire game (with the sole exception of a single post directed to Ginz early on in which you were defending saber)?

In your opinion should I be cleared (for a werewolf)for the same reason you are in Lynx eyes?

I think it is very unlikely that you are a Werewolf because I doubt that a Werewolf would push the bigmc wagon like you did if you were his partner.

speaking of comprehension, so that I completely understand.

you metaed Big, because of the reasons you stated...did you feel those actions were scummy..thus why you metaed?

Again, do you not read? I have already said that I did not initially get a strong scum read on bigmc but that I found some of his actions suspicious and they were bugging me, so I meta'd him. See my 368 and my 424.

I definitely think there are a few scum within Lowell-Paradoxombie-Dank-Lynx.

I'm going to have to re-read them all again and do some more meta'ing to see which are stronger candidates than the others, I think. I keep waffling a bit in my reads on the latter three. They were all (relatively) slow to come to the bigmc wagon after I pointed out clear evidence of him lying, thus being scum, but there's no reason for Mafia to be slow about it, since Mafia would have known that bigmc wasn't one of theirs, so I'm still trying to decide whether that makes one of them the remaining Werewolf or if the Werewolf is someone who avoided the wagon entirely.

Since the day would have ended with a no-lynch if we didn't get 7 votes on bigmc, and since there are only two Werewolves, I'm inclined to think that the last Werewolf stayed off the wagon entirely. I.e.: that means Hewitt, Fitz (slot) or Percy (slot).

Hewitt hasn't posted for 10 days and the other two slots have been extreme lurker slots, so I think that one of them could have easily decided to just stay off the wagon and make an excuse for it later. That said, I don't know which one of the three is the most likely candidate, but I think this needs some serious consideration by all players.

@Mod: please prod Hewitt

PREVIEW EDIT: Hewitt disappeared from this game thread on December 28, just before the deadline, but he has been posting in other games on the site virtually every day since then.

Unvote.
Vote: Hewitt

Regards,
Jazz

[havingfitz]

We may need a mod-prod.

On the bright side...this game is not taking away too much time from RL and other games. I've been impacted quite a bit by weather here in the UK the past few days but will try to dedicate a bit of time to looking over the game again...though not much has occurred since I voted and voiced my suspicions to warrant much comment.

[havingfitz]

Since the day would have ended with a no-lynch if we didn't get 7 votes on bigmc, and since there are only two Werewolves, I'm inclined to think that the last Werewolf stayed off the wagon entirely. I.e.: that means Hewitt, Fitz (slot) or Percy (slot).

Though I came in after the lynch so it's not the same read I probably would get if I was experiencing the close of D1 firsthand...I think bigmc's lynch was almost a sure thing after the case you brought up on him. I would not put it past the other werewolf to jump on at the last minute (ex dank, Paradoximbie) in an effort to distance them from their partner.

[ZEEnon]

Vote Count

dank:

Flava Flave, Paradoxombie

Lowell:

dank

Paradoxombie:

havingfitz

hewitt:

Jazzmyn

Not Voting:

curiouskarmadog, hewitt, Percy, Lynx The Antithesis

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline: January 23rd, 2010 at approximately 10 p.m.

hewitt has been prodded.

[curiouskarmadog]

Jazz, What actions of bigmc did you find suspicious....perhaps I am not asking the question correctly... I am trying to figure out why you metaed him...maybe provide some posts #s for me.

also, so you think as scum, I would just skim to scumhunt? There is no way possible that I (as town) could have just overlooked something? Just want to make sure that is your stance on that particular topic....(hint: it might come back to bite your ass)

"Who do you think is the last Werewolf? Why?
Who do you think is most likely to be a member of the Mafia, and why?"

Not sure yet....for a wolf, dank or Lynx maybe, see Day 1...seems obvious as to why...there stances and votes (timing)

for mafia, think you are of that varity....maybe even lynx (if he isnt the other wolf).something about your play yesterday seems off. And I remember another game where you as scum, blamed a lack of posting on RL stuff...but not just that, your play yesterday is tingling my mafia vibe...why exactly...dont know..perhaps a ISO is in order.

"Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about Paradox for the entire game except for the single word, "noted"? "

LOL, because he isnt on my radar. I also havent said anything about hewitt (and I am sure others)..why did you not bring that up? You know something about Para I dont?..LOL, this is noted. Also yesterday, I was pretty sure bgmc was scum, if I hadnt pushed so hard yesterday, most likely he would not have been the lynch...I tunneled on him.

Why is it that you have had nothing at all to say to or about the Ginz/dana/havinfitz slot for the entire game (with the sole exception of a single post directed to Ginz early on in which you were defending saber)?

Same as para....

Have you commented on all the players in the game?..why or why not? IS there anyone else in the game that havent comment on another play yet, why have you not mentioned that? (see how silly this question is?)

[Lowell]

Still not sure about how I feel about dank. He's explained some of the case on him, but the blatent buddying with lynx still bothers me.

In other news, I read back the pages leading up to a bigmc lynch. Before basically giving up completely, the crux of his attacks were on saber. Going on the logic that a two-person scumteam wouldn't bus D1, I'd say flave (saber) isn't the other werewolf.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Not sure yet....for a wolf, dank or Lynx maybe, see Day 1...seems obvious as to why...there stances and votes (timing)

What seems so obvious? And I find it odd that you as well have failed to include Paradox along with us? Why is he excluded from this suspicion? What exactly is this suspicion?

Still not sure about how I feel about dank. He's explained some of the case on him, but the blatent buddying with lynx still bothers me

Where do you see him buddying to me? I haven't really seen him mention me that much.

I'm beginning to lean more towards a Paradox as wolf than Dank. This may be due to Dank's defense over these latest posts though and Paradox's simple follow up to Flave's case.

I still do think it is very possible that a wolf was not part of the wagon. Especially Hewitt if it is true that he was posting on the site while the deadline was so close.

[Jazzmyn]

Especially Hewitt if it is true that he was posting on the site while the deadline was so close.

It's easy to check. Click on the "profile" button below one of Hewitt's posts and it takes you to a link showing all of his posts.

His last post in this game was on Dec. 28. Since then, he posted 33 posts in other games - but not a single one in this game - on Dec 29, 30, 31, Jan 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8.

So, he can't even claim not to have been around on the day of the deadline here (Dec 30) as he clearly was since he was posting in other games.

Regards,
Jazz

[havingfitz]

His last post in this game was on Dec. 28. Since then, he posted 33 posts in other games - but not a single one in this game - on Dec 29, 30, 31, Jan 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8.

So, he can't even claim not to have been around on the day of the deadline here (Dec 30) as he clearly was since he was posting in other games.

Today is the 12th day since Hewitt's last post. He had an 11 day absence prior to this one. He obviously has no interest in playing in this game (not sure if that necessarily implies whether he's town or scum) which is a major foul considering he gave SW so much shit for acting in an anti-town manner.

Not sure if he deserves the courtesy of a prod (to which he could answer and then go on another extended hiatus) or just be replaced outright for the two ridiculous absences.