Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[pablito]

I was all prepared to read Crazy and put some case on him, but then I read through all his posts and realised that I was biased against Crazy because I went awry when he made some comment with the word lame in it. Looking back, I don't see anything that really stands out with me except some questionable phrases...which when compiled together don't add up to much. But here's what piqued my interest of what he's said:

I'm also feeling a bit of a lack of punch coming from Crazy. Kinda coasting.

Indeed, I'd agree with you. I'm surprised people have been saying I'm so pro-town.

It just sounded strange to hear someone acknowledge something like that. I struggled in my head to wonder whether scum would be more likely to say it this way or someone pro-town. So in the end, it's just something of significance, but it began my vigilant eye toward Crazy during the game.

I choose to nominate SlySly and Snow_Bunny for eviction

I like those choices.

I get why Crazy says this in retrospect, but I had found it odd at that time because Crazy hadn't mentioned much on snow bunny before. Also seemed too "stock comment" for me.

So, pablito, is the fact that the hammer was a "quickhammer" a big deal, or is it only because he said he would vote for whoever had the most votes?

I think this is where I began to suspect Crazy further. Seemed like he was pushing me for going against Sironigous at that time.

Lame. I didn't realize you were purposefully dragging this out. Almost 24 hours passed without a post, and then when me and ani post you step in to say "this twilight phase has been extremely informative?!" Are you implying anything specific without actually pointing it out or just saying nothing?

This post really got under my skin. Really really did. I kept as diplomatic as possible in my reply. Thankfully Crazy clarified this post later.

So every comment made toward me made me think twice about Crazy. But when I looked at all Crazy's posts, there's good thoughtful questioning toward everyone. And Crazy's suspicions are alright and from what I remember - seem to be justified.

[pablito]

I have the veto. Considering we have one use left, I am strongly considering passing it on and saving it. I have too many nagging thoughts in the back of my mind and while I don't think the nominations are optimal, I don't think this is the time to use it. Furthermore, I think coup d'etat should be used before veto. With veto, you get information on who passed it and why and we know it has a higher chance of staying in pro-town hands. coup has one owner only.

Whuzza? Nice find with the Veto? I guess if reading the rules is a nice find. Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.

There's nary a mention that Sly was scum in this analysis on ani. It has little to do with ani, but umm...I could fathom that a scumpartner would word that sentence about his dead scum partner in that way.

His thoughts have been independent, such as the first to pursue Sly was him.

Yeah, but two scum teams. and stuff.

I really like Paltry's last posts, but not all of the thoughts and analyses are solid. They're real well done, but it's not damning evidence in his favour. I can't stop thinking that with opposing scum teams, good analyses and scumhunting is done by both scum teams as well.

Paltry's language and his previous actions still give me doubt. I don't see Paltry as being more pro-town than anti-town right now. While these analyses are nice, it still didn't feel invasive either. Crazy's been hella impressing me recently with the way he asks questions - not just the content of the questions. I fear Paltry is pro-town, but it's not enough for me to consider vetoing either player.

This is particularly kinda why I was against Paltry's willingness to use veto all this time. It makes it all the harder to be willing to make the veto expire on the second use. Twist of fate, I suppose. I still cannot say that Paltry using the veto was pro-town.

Remembered something... I really ought to have pushed this conversation further:

I do think it could've been interesting to see how paltry would've voted if sly was already dead though. and sir took that opportunity away from us. so in that way, it can be seen as scummy as well.

You seriously think Sir is crafty enough to see that consequence? Scum that are that crafty aren't the same scum that will vote for someone because "they have more votes."

No, I don't think Sironigous was clever enough to know that in advance. But there was acknowledgement that he was the lynching vote. That's something.

I see somewhat of a backtrack between pablito's first and second quote, here. Or at least it's showing a mentality of "It's scummy 'cuz it helps scum" rather than "It's scummy 'cuz scum would do it."

Pablito, if Sir couldn't have seen how his "hammer vote" helped scum, then how was it scummy?

There's lot of context I wasn't putting into full words here.

In response to the question - was Sironigous clever enough to foresee the consequence of that strange twilight period when he put his vote? no.
Do I think Sironigous knew he was lynching Sly? Yes. And he was acknowledging that he was ending conversation on Sly. He knew that by lynching Sly no one would have to question him further.

Once Sly was lynched, no one had to ask further questions and provoke further if they didn't want to. Sir culled that conversation and was aware of that by his vote. He clearly wanted the result to be - Sly lynched.

What Sironigous wasn't aware of was that once Sly was lynched, everyone would start to bring up a new conversation on snowbunny and that people who hadn't voted could feel more free to not value their vote as much and put it wherever they wanted. Sir didn't see that Paltry would be able to push less on the Sly case (something he had been doing quite a bit), but yet put a vote on snow bunny in the end. Sironigous was aware that votes would be meaningless from that point onward, but was he aware that people could possibly re-evaluate and feel more willing to go against the majority? no.

I'm saying a lot of Sironigous new that lynching would get a result and that no one would really ask questions of the nominees to get more information on where their votes would go. He just didn't expect the weird things that happened in twilight.

So it's scummy because he...wait, that first statement doesn't make so much sense. let me post it again

I do think it could've been interesting to see how paltry would've voted if sly

was

weren't

already dead though. and sir took that opportunity away from us. so in that way,

it can be seen

I may see it

as scummy as well.

I think that more accurately sums up what I think. with italics new words. But I see what you're getting at now Crazy. In other words, if Sironigous were smart enough to know what he was doing, then hell yeah it was really scummy. But do I think he knew it, no. So I guess I'm saying that there's a possibility it was a pre-meditated scummy move, but more than likely it was an unexpected consequence that was fallen upon.


And now for my whole reasoning upon bringing it up. I now think that one of the people that Sly may have been protecting was Sironigous (although the majority think it was Kast - which is also a possibility). In retrospect, if Sironigous is partnered with Sly, he could easily say he'll vote whichever way. And once the votes are clearly stacking up against Sly (Sir would've never paid enough attention to see that snow was going to rack up any votes), so by being the lynching vote on Sly - Sironigous can look good by lynching Sly (who was going to be lynched anyway) and could also stop discussion on Sly - thus Sly doesn't have to worry much anymore about what to say. I mean Sly pretty much shut up and didn't say much more of substance once he was lynched. Then again though, Sironigous was voting just after bv...so my thought process is pretty much all coincidental and attributing more to a sir-scum than is possible.

Okay, but there's my thought process and I hope that answers the question, Crazy.

[farside22]

vote count:

Paltry (1) Kast
Crazy (1) Snow_Bunny

Deadline is Friday January 8, 1:45pm PST

[Kmd4390]

Llama, at least one of Paltry/Crazy is scum. I'm pretty sure of this.

(Damn, I can just feel my tone carrying over from the 2 SA games I just joined)

[hewitt]

You nominated a floater (or someone you thought as such)? Is this the town's nom while Snow was your nom?... I'm confused about you now. However, hewitt has scumhunted, been active, and said many things I feel myself nodding to. So: Neutral leaning-town read.

With the Sly nomination I was pretty much just giving the town what they wanted and Snow Bunny was my nomination, who I strongly believe is scum.

@Kast- Okay this is getting a little bit ridiculous now. I know you're purposely tunnel-visioning on me to make me look bad but I mean come on, enough of the lies. I have had zero emotional outbursts and I have not insulted anyone. All those quotes you have of me swearing and saying shit is stupid is not directly calling anybody stupid and was not meant to call anybody anything negative. That's all very clear. The twisting around is getting a little annoying. There are zero cases of ad hom in my posts and your attempts to prove otherwise failed miserably.

My decision to want to nominate you if I get tapped as HoH is not OMGUS at all and honestly, complete nonsense. You didn't point out any visible inconsistencies and your "attacks" are barely passable as attacks in the first place, there is no OMGUS. Why would I nominate you as OMGUS if you were going to use the Coup D'Etat and then be in a position of power? How stupid is that? It's clearly not OMGUS and it is to flush out the Coup D'Etat, any player who was awarded it would be in the same exact situation with me. Oh and the trying to appease you? Ha.

The rest of the town may be willing to test you when you choose to use the Coup D'Etat late in the game but I, for one, am not willing to take that risk. The "scum-Kast using Coup D'Etat in any situation other than immediate game win" is pure WIFOM, most perfect example of it I've ever seen.

Ridiculousness.

Onto important issues, I'm a little bit more torn on the eviction vote now. Paltry's certainly been much more vocal, informative, insightful, and helpful than Crazy has been in the past couple of days.

@Paltry- If you were tapped as Hoh who would you nominate?

[PaltryExcuse]

Whuzza? Nice find with the Veto? I guess if reading the rules is a nice find. Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.

There's nary a mention that Sly was scum in this analysis on ani. It has little to do with ani, but umm...I could fathom that a scumpartner would word that sentence about his dead scum partner in that way.

It was an example of Ani's ridiculous claims. You can fathom a scumpartner saying it? I could fathom a scumpartner making sure he's pinpointed others as scumpartners.

His thoughts have been independent, such as the first to pursue Sly was him.

Yeah, but two scum teams. and stuff.

I really like Paltry's last posts, but not all of the thoughts and analyses are solid. They're real well done, but it's not damning evidence in his favour. I can't stop thinking that with opposing scum teams, good analyses and scumhunting is done by both scum teams as well.

True enough, but, scum also doesn't want to draw too much attention to themselves early game, especially since the earliest they can win is at the end of Day 8. For the Chenbots, it's now Day 10.

Paltry's language and his previous actions still give me doubt. I don't see Paltry as being more pro-town than anti-town right now. While these analyses are nice, it still didn't feel invasive either. Crazy's been hella impressing me recently with the way he asks questions - not just the content of the questions. I fear Paltry is pro-town, but it's not enough for me to consider vetoing either player.

This is particularly kinda why I was against Paltry's willingness to use veto all this time. It makes it all the harder to be willing to make the veto expire on the second use. Twist of fate, I suppose. I still cannot say that Paltry using the veto was pro-town.

And then the stuff on Crazy. Who are you going to vote for? I'd guess it was me, but you've thrown suspicion on both of us.

@Paltry- If you were tapped as Hoh who would you nominate?

Kast and Finch / Sir. I want Sir evicted, but Kast isn't far behind... and I don't know if Kast would feel threatened enough to use the Coup d'Etat if he was against Sir. I'd see how things played out afterwards (I don't expect to be here though.)
But really, reading Kast in ISO can be summarized for this with me:
Attack most popular nominee.
Attack Hewitt.

[PaltryExcuse]

One question for pablito:
When would you use the veto if there was two chances at it?
Part of the reason you're tentative to use it is because there is only one more use.

[hewitt]

Good answer. Crazy, who would you nominate for eviction if you were tapped as the next HoH?

[PaltryExcuse]

@All: I thought I would be on to answer any comment about my most recent posts, but the World Hockey Juniors is on tonight and as a good Canadian I must watch and drink and cheer on Canada to said occasion.

[Crazy]

Good answer. Crazy, who would you nominate for eviction if you were tapped as the next HoH?

Ani and Snow. Possibly ani + a pawn, but more likely Ani and Snow.

[pablito]

It was an example of Ani's ridiculous claims. You can fathom a scumpartner saying it? I could fathom a scumpartner making sure he's pinpointed others as scumpartners.

Actually it was referring to this statement:

Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.

I can see a scumpartner (you) of Sly saying that. I would expect town to say

Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent away from the town and he was shown as scum. Craziness.

There's something you say about "it got him evicted" rather than saying "and he flipped scum anyway". You focus on the fact that his tangent got him evicted rather than the tangent being an inherently scummy action. I think that's a slip.

Who are you going to vote for? I'd guess it was me, but you've thrown suspicion on both of us.

Once noms were made, my vote was going for Crazy. Not sure right now, I'm leaning 65% toward voting Paltry at this point.

When would you use the veto if there was two chances at it?
Part of the reason you're tentative to use it is because there is only one more use.

Let's say veto was never used. Would I use it this round? If there was strong support for using it, then yeah, it's a possibility. Although I would advocate for Kast using the coup still before using the veto. However, if I were going to use the veto, I don't see much reason to use it on Crazy because of vote momentum, so that means Paltry would have to be the recipient of the veto if I were to use it.

Does Paltry smell 100% town to me? No. Therefore I would have to doubt I would've actually used the veto if there were two shots left. I see benefits for Paltry's flip, town or scum...but yeah I'm not entirely optimistic either. But a huge reason why I would not use the veto one shot or two shot is because we just hit scum. We have info to go on. I'd rather save veto for when we're stuck against a wall. Not so sure we're at that stage yet. If we hadn't hit scum yet and Paltry was up against Crazy? I'd be more willing to use it. But when nominations were made, you guys weren't as vicious as you are now. Maybe it's holiday timing, but I wish you (specifically Paltry) would've shown us this analysis before nominations.

[animorpherv1]

Nothing so far has swayed me in Crazy's direction.

vote Paltry

.

[pablito]

Just realised, it's my scumday. Oh fun.

The person I'm most anxiously waiting to come back is Mr Finch.

Also I'm possibly going to be on V/LA for the next two days until Friday-ish comes around.

[Kast]

@PE-
Ad hom means attacking the person instead of the argument. Dismissing an argument by stating:
-The person making it is stupid.
-Anyone who believes/subscribes to it is stupid.
-The person making it has terrible judgment.

Are examples of ad hom. Hewitt did all three of these as I quoted. It's not just aggression, it's ad hom. The two are not mutually exclusive. Your implication is false.

@Hewitt-

With the Sly nomination I was pretty much just giving the town what they wanted and Snow Bunny was my nomination, who I strongly believe is scum.

This is a lie as I already pointed out. You specifically stated Sly is your top choice. SB was ONLY your third choice.

-Good to see you calm down now. That does not erase your tantrums from earlier.

-You made direct insults as well as generic swearing. None of it was actually game relevant. Some was ad hom, some was appeal to emotion, some exemplify both.

-Your chronology makes no sense. You initially tried appeasement, when that failed, you changed your list of noms in an OMGUS reaction to the failure of your appeasement. Your OMGUS reaction provides you with a *seemingly* legitimate reason to waste the town's Coup d'etat if you gain the HoH. You know that you are not my top nomination, and you know that your buddy AM will be lynched regardless of whether I use Coup d'etat.

Your flip flopping on who your noms would be is more indication that you are more interested in scheming than finding scum.

-Instead of ignoring my posts and saying I didn't point out inconsistencies, explain how the inconsistencies I pointed out are not inconsistencies.

-You should stop trying to create confusion about Coup d'etat. If I use it in a non-pro-town manner, then I will be lynched the following day. Nothing WIFOM about that.

The only exception is if I were scum and immediately won from using it. This can ONLY happen in a specific and improbable situation which is equivalent in probability to the specific and likewise improbable situation where preservation of Coup d'etat is the only way to allow town to win. Your persistent use of an unlikely corner case to scare town is blatant fearmongering and is very scummy.

Attack most popular nominee.
Attack Hewitt.

This is a seriously misleading half-truth. Your implication that I'm only following after the majority opinion is completely false. You are correct that I attacked Sly who became the most popular nominee and was lynched as a result. However, a huge reason he was a popular nominee was because I pointed out to town that he was obv-scum.

I've primarily attacked Sly, AM, Hewitt, and Saber. All attacks have been supported with reasons and posts, most of which were completely original (although most were later echoed by other players).

The exception, and generally odd man, is saber who I had a slightly town read on replacement but later reversed the read based on re-read of Sly prompted by Crazy and Sironigous.

When I joined, I pegged Sly as obvious scum but the town as a whole was doing a pretty terrible job of realizing that. The major pressure and consensus to lynch Sly all built up after I replaced in and pointed him out as obv-scum. After Hewitt finally nommed Sly, I voted him and chastised the town for dragging their feet. Seeing as I was correct and Sly did flip scum, I think I was pretty justified in pushing the case and attack against him.

AM was certainly not trusted by most players, but Saber was far and away the more popular nominee. Nobody was focusing on AM's player interactions that indicated him as scummy, rather the attention on him prior to my attacks was just because he and saber were both very n00b-y and had their bet.

I'm assuming you aren't objecting to my attacks on Hewitt.

I have attacked Saber more recently, but it's a major stretch to claim that he is the most popular nominee.

[hewitt]

lol Kast you've failed to actually point out a true case of ad hom on my part so there's nothing to defend myself from there. There were no direct insults made and if there had been I'm very confident the mod would've taken action, but there were not so this is a very useless and distracting discussion.

As for the appeasement thing I have no idea what you're talking about, I clearly never tried to appease you in any sort of way. I don't even understand how you can twist my past posts into making it seem like I tried appeasement (which you've again failed to example). The OMGUS argument is really getting aggravating, you did not attack me first. And I have not really attacked you in return. What you've done is piss and whine until I paid attention to you and now you're throwing shit at the wall and hoping it's stuck and it didn't so we're stuck in this stupid, pointless circle.

It's not the "town's" Coup D'Etat, it's your Coup D'Etat. Saying "oh well if I use it in a non-pro-town way I'll just get lynched" is WIFOM because you would most likely use it in a pro-town way if you were scum anyway! Anybody who has ever played the game of Mafia could tell you that.

As for me trying to protect animorpherv, that's pretty nonsensical seeing as I'm going to be voting to evict him the first time he's not up against Snow Bunny for eviction. Enough of the shit slinging, it's getting really annoying.

[Mr Finch]

Just realised, it's my scumday. Oh fun.

The person I'm most anxiously waiting to come back is Mr Finch.

Also I'm possibly going to be on V/LA for the next two days until Friday-ish comes around.

Pabs - happy scum day!

Guys an gals - I am so sorry to do this to you, I have asked farside to replace me. I things have hit the fan at home and I can't commit any time to this game right now.

I hope that this doesn't affect the game

too

much and thankyou all for letting me play.

[farside22]

Just realised, it's my scumday. Oh fun.

The person I'm most anxiously waiting to come back is Mr Finch.

Also I'm possibly going to be on V/LA for the next two days until Friday-ish comes around.

Pabs - happy scum day!

Guys an gals - I am so sorry to do this to you, I have asked farside to replace me. I things have hit the fan at home and I can't commit any time to this game right now.

I hope that this doesn't affect the game

too

much and thankyou all for letting me play.

Sorry it happened. If things pick up and you want back in the game send me a PM I was happy to have you here.

[farside22]

Sironigous is offically back today so I sent a prod to him to post

[bv310]

Let's see if Sir finds this replacement scummy too. :p

[Crazy]

Deadline's tomorrow; if any of you guys have any questions for me (or if I've missed any, possibly) before you vote, please ask.

[bv310]

Crazy and Paltry (although I already think I know what Paltry's going to say), if you get tapped as HoH tomorrow, who would you nominate?

[Crazy]

Crazy and Paltry (although I already think I know what Paltry's going to say), if you get tapped as HoH tomorrow, who would you nominate?

Ani and Snow, still.

[farside22]

vote count:

Paltry (1) Kast
Crazy (1) Snow_Bunny

Deadline is Friday January 8, 1:45pm PST

No change to the vote and deadline is tomorrow........dont' make me start doing mod kills!

[Kmd4390]

Crazy and Paltry (although I already think I know what Paltry's going to say), if you get tapped as HoH tomorrow, who would you nominate?

This was already asked. Very recently.

Guys, deadline is tomorrow. Get voting

[LlamaFluff]

Vote PE

I think they are both town though, I just think Crazy is slightly more town.

Please whoever gets HoH put up ani/snow