Newbie 892 - The Future of Magic. Game Over! Mafia Win

[Haylen]

The Top of the Page Vote count

The Tracker: RayFrost, Dimaba
cdubs: LordChronos, Jackabomb
LordChronos: Yosarian2, Doctor
Doctor: cdubs

Not voting: easjo682

Deadline is 26th January 2010, 9pm England time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Lots of Love,
Hayl

[RayFrost]

When I first read Jackabomb's post, I thought "who is cdubs?"

I then reread the thread and found that little post... @_@"

I'd vote him, but I dunno how many votes are on 'im, and I don't really want to take my vote off of tracker.

[Jackabomb]

Mind refreshing my memory as to why you are voting Tracker? The LAL, right? Or was there more. I don't quite recall.

[RayFrost]

I'm ashamed of Yos2.

unvote

vote: tracker

1. Fakeclaiming in his name. ( )

2. seems to be attempting to bring support for the LaL[urkers] policy, which is terribly anti-town, since the town gets very little information from a lurker dying (easy mislynch, no connections to other players makes it low info, etc). He obviously knows about prods and replacements, so his support for LaL[urkers] is scummy.

3. He says there is not enough information to scumhunt, yet he does nothing to provide information to aid in scumhunting. Very " well, we can't do our job without information, but I'm not gonna put myself out there *baits somebody else to do so* " type of thing.

[Doctor]

@Doctor
You criticize me for lack of participation in this game, but pretty much all you have done so far is talk about lurkers. Any thoughts on players who might be scum?

I invite you to read the post above the one where I voted for you where I stated my ideas on EVERYONE that has been active so far.... or has that gone completly ignored?

Quite the contrary I havn't been focused on lurkers, but that does seem to be the active topic so I did figure I would dig some, and get some opinions from people.

Just because I point out lurkers and attempt to get them to be active dosn't mean im focused on them.

And as far as critisizing you, I merely wanted to see more from you and to get your response.

Unvote

[Jackabomb]

I'm ashamed of Yos2.

unvote

vote: tracker

1. Fakeclaiming in his name. ( )

2. seems to be attempting to bring support for the LaL[urkers] policy, which is terribly anti-town, since the town gets very little information from a lurker dying (easy mislynch, no connections to other players makes it low info, etc). He obviously knows about prods and replacements, so his support for LaL[urkers] is scummy.

3. He says there is not enough information to scumhunt, yet he does nothing to provide information to aid in scumhunting. Very " well, we can't do our job without information, but I'm not gonna put myself out there *baits somebody else to do so* " type of thing.

Were some of these arguments not refuted or their scumtells nullified? I was under the impression that all Tracker's been doing since you posted that was defending himself.
Oh. Number 4: Backpedaling when he came under fire for number 2.

[easjo682]

@eas I havn't gotten a read on you as of yet. You are posting but there isn't much there save your last post i'll attribute that to your work, seeing as I have a similar problem. I'd Like your opinions of me personally.

I think you are townie

@Everyone I would like to ask if the choice was left to you would you lynch a Lurker who has posted but has not contained anything of value to the town except a few short posts, or someone who is posting but is coming off as scummy, but has some pro town qualities as well.

someone who is posting but is coming off as scummy, but has some pro town qualities as well

So, you suspect Rayfrost for "starting a bandwagon" on Tracker, you suspect Dimaba for following Rayfrost in voting for Tracker, but at the same time, you also suspect tracker?

If you suspect tracker, then why do you feel it's scummy for other people to suspect tracker?

I don't suspect him merely for starting a bandwagon on tracker, but for other contributing factors as stated in my earlier post, whoever the bandwagon had been on I'd have still thought of Rayfrost as scummy. Regardless of whether or not other had been suspecting Tracker I'd still find him suspicious, party for starting the talk on lynching lurkers, partly for the joke about roleclaiming with doctor.

[Jackabomb]

Doctor, why the unvote? Who are your scum choices as of right now, if you had to kill two people, who would you choose and why? My current choices would cdubs and Dimaba. The Tracker barely avoided dimaba's position, but he's been posting more and seemed able to take constructive criticism.

[easjo682]

VOTE DIMABA

[Doctor]

Doctor, why the unvote? Who are your scum choices as of right now, if you had to kill two people, who would you choose and why? My current choices would cdubs and Dimaba. The Tracker barely avoided dimaba's position, but he's been posting more and seemed able to take constructive criticism.

It was merely a vote of pressure, I got what I intended so I unvoted.

Personally If I had to choose it would be Tracker and Dimaba these two had had the most Scumtells even if they are few, for me Cdubs hasn't posted enough for me to choose him.

[Yosarian2]

@ Yos2 - I find that lurking is a minor scumtell relative to the ones that I find on active players, would you agree?

No, not at all. That's exactally the problem; if you treat lurking like a "minor scumtell", then active players tend to always look worse then lurkers, and that rewards scum who lurk.

I also think active lurking is something that is easier to see than inactivity, since a person could've been hospitalized and thus be able to come on, but we wouldn't be able to tell due to them not being on...

Hey, if someone is V/LA, or if they're replaced, or if they're gone for a few days and come back and say they were in a hospital, then I'm obviously not going to lynch them for that. Short of that, though, I'm always going to treat lurking as a scumtell.

[Jackabomb]

It's the very same fact that cdubs has posted so little that causes me to suspect him. He only made one post the entire game. He totally wins the Lurkiest player award so far. His only post was trash besides. A random vote, even though RVS has been over for a while. And calling it a random vote is giving him the benefit of doubt already in my eyes. The other possibility is that he really meant his vote, but didn't provide any reason. I believe that to be a rather large scumtell.

Hey, dimaba, doesn't lynching somebody because they vote without reason sound rather familiar?
Too familiar.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, Cdub has definatly not said much. He did say that he's currently V/LA, though, so I'm willing to give him a little more slack. If the lack of content continues, then we'll have to deal with it.

[Jackabomb]

I'm not irked so much by his lurking, but by his reason-less vote.

[Doctor]

I'm not irked so much by his lurking, but by his reason-less vote.

Only slightly here, as of the moment his lack of participation and reason for his vote, is just that and empty vote, no arguments nothing to hold water on, though it does make me suspicious of him but not overly so.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not irked so much by his lurking, but by his reason-less vote.

(shrug) I don't generally mind if someone votes without giving a reason right away. It's not like his vote puts Doctor in any danger at the moment. We'll see what he has to say about his vote when he gets back.

[LordChronos]

I'd vote him, but I dunno how many votes are on 'im, and I don't really want to take my vote off of tracker.

To answer your question, there are currently two people voting him, me and Jackabomb. I really wish he would post his reasoning for that vote.

VOTE DIMABA

I assume that your reasoning for this is the same as earlier? You think dimaba is scummy for attacking someone you think is scummy using the arguments of another person you feel is scummy? What has changed between now and then to make you think dimaba is deserving of your vote?

[cdubs]

Okay, So I'm back for a bit. So earlier with my doctor vote, i didn't realize there was more than one page. (I'm not too good with the internet). So I was voting on doctor based on first page info to see the reaction. However my absence has provided a lot of information. Yos2 is an experienced player who very early suggested lynching "lurker's" early is always good, but this was quickly refuted by rayfrost. I feel that considering this is a newbie game he may have been attmepting to get a quick vote against some one without drawing too much suspicion to himself. He has been wavering back and forth somewhat on what to do I feel. Also the tracker I feel was hoping to use my absence as a route for a quick vote. Tracker was less tactful and has been drawing fire which has also caused plenty of switching stances. Rayfrost's comment about now being suspicious of me I feel may be an attempt to get a vote to lynch me with drawing little suspicion to himself. My post is not thorough and for that I apologize but I will have more time soon.

Unvote

My 3 suspicions are tracker, rayfrsot, and yos2, however I doubt that if it is rayfrost that it is either of the other two, and right now I am more suspicious of tracker. I feel it could be tracker AND Yos 2.

[The Tracker]

Also the tracker I feel was hoping to use my absence as a route for a quick vote. Tracker was less tactful and has been drawing fire which has also caused plenty of switching stances.

*Raises an eyebrow* If I was using your absence for a quick vote, don't you think I would have said more than I wasn't liking how you were lurking? I never switched stances, but I had to give massive explanation for my points since apparantly saying you would support lynching lurkers means you're scum.

[cdubs]

Votes may not pressure enough and they can ignore pushing. Best to get rid of them.

The deadline is 13 days away. To push for "lurker" lynch this early does several things, none of which are beneficial for town. It a. lynches some one without providing any information, this is awesome for mafia. b. allows a lynch to occur with minimal discussion and therefore reduces the likelihood of any connections being made among players for aalysis. This easy policy lynch shows aversion to active scumhunting.

I'm ashamed of Yos2.


2. seems to be attempting to bring support for the LaL[urkers] policy, which is terribly anti-town, since the town gets very little information from a lurker dying (easy mislynch, no connections to other players makes it low info, etc). He obviously knows about prods and replacements, so his support for LaL[urkers] is scummy.

I'll start with 2. First, anti-town doesn't equal scummy. Besides, lurking is in and of itself anti-town, so really it all comes down to your personal feelings on the matter. I will not go with a policy lynch unless I see no better alternatives (which hasn't happened yet), and even then I would prefer we lynch someone who's more scummy.
.

Anti town is the definition of scummy. In this quote you said you won't policy lynch, yet in the previous quote I have chosen you suggest a policy lurker lynch of getting rid of me because you don't think votes will push me to talk. This is a direct contradiction, and what I was referring to when I meant stance switching.

@Dimaba: Now why would I have a thought on someone to lynch when the day has just barely started? I'm not going to even think about putting anyone on the chopping block just yet. So why do you want a lynch opinion? Thinking of steering a quicklynch, scumboy?

@Frost: I'm amazed at how you seem to think me saying I would lynch a lurker if it came down to it is me trying to steer a mislynch.

You accuse dimaba of being scum for trying to steer a quick lynch, and then you say you would only vote a lurker if it came down to it. But you are the one who said "best get rid of them". That doesn't sound like "best get rid of them if there are no other options", that sounds like "hey everyone lets lynch one of these two its a good idea"

Also, I don't feel Tracker's accusations against dimaba really hold any ground. I feel like Tracker is doing anything to get a vote against anyone (I apologize if I formatted things wrong)

Vote: Tracker

[The Tracker]

*raises eyebrow even further* I did not push for a lynch. Did I say,"we should lynch so-and-so now?" No. I said getting rid of lurkers is beneficial.

Anti-town=/=scummy. Just because someone appears anti-town does not mean they're scum.

Once again, you are saying I'm advocating a quicklynch. Show me my post where I advocated such a policy.

Yes, I accused dimaba. It's called a counter strike. He attacked me, so I responded in kind.

Summation:cdubs looks like he's trying to put words in my mouth. He's doing what everyone else is: saying a certain belief is a scum belief. Then of course he votes me. So dubbyman, I have a question for you: do you think dredging up old, rehashed arguments that have already been gone over as much as possible is beneficial? It seems to me the one quicklynching is you, considering I'm at three votes. Guess it's officially a wagon, now.

[Yosarian2]

OYos2 is an experienced player who very early suggested lynching "lurker's" early is always good, but this was quickly refuted by rayfrost.

No, that's simply not true. The town absolulty has to deal with lurkers, which often means lynching them.

Plus, I'm always in favor of lynching lurkers. Heck, I modded a theme game called "lynch all lurkers" a few months back.

This is a long running discussion. There was just recently a thread in MD about the subject you might find informative, here it is

viewtopic.php?t=12848&start=0

[dimaba]

Hey, dimaba, doesn't lynching somebody because they vote without reason sound rather familiar?
Too familiar.[/color]

Certainly does. Didn't help us much at the time, but they certainly did deserve it.

@Jackabomb: do you feel cdubs' presented reasons are strong enough to make the initial reasonless vote irrelevant?

@Doctor: what scumtells have you noticed about my play other than the would-be bandwagon? I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't see them.

I am also going to

unvote

. I have said earlier that the original scumtells on Tracker (LaL-policy and non-participation) have become less valid and in my last post I also mentioned that my later reason for suspicion (agressive response without answering question) has also become less valid. Tracker is at L-2 I think it's better if I withdraw my vote for now.

[The Tracker]

I want to know how being in support of LaL is scummy. In my opinion it's a damn null tell and shouldn't even figure in to whether you think someone's scum or not. I mean, yeah in Newbie games Town Newbies tend to lurk as well, but it's still more likely scum are the lurkers trying to stay off the radar.

[easjo682]

Hey, dimaba, doesn't lynching somebody because they vote without reason sound rather familiar?
Too familiar.[/color]

Certainly does. Didn't help us much at the time, but they certainly did deserve it.

@Jackabomb: do you feel cdubs' presented reasons are strong enough to make the initial reasonless vote irrelevant?

@Doctor: what scumtells have you noticed about my play other than the would-be bandwagon? I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't see them.

I am also going to

unvote

. I have said earlier that the original scumtells on Tracker (LaL-policy and non-participation) have become less valid and in my last post I also mentioned that my later reason for suspicion (agressive response without answering question) has also become less valid. Tracker is at L-2 I think it's better if I withdraw my vote for now.

I didnt write that quote you're quoting, that was Tracker