Newbie 848 - The Bunny Mafia Family - over finally!

[Haylen]

Haylen's 608 was quite possibly the scummiest post I've ever seen, chock full of bad or wrong arguments.
Page 26 is just scummy as hell by Nacho. Gets in to a pissing contest with Jase over answering a single question he's already answered, but refuses to repeat it, instead slinging mud on Jase.
Ok, there is zero chance Haylen is town. At some point you just have to draw the line and say that if someone is playing this terribly, they cannot possibly be town. Haylen crosses this line by about a mile.
Page 27, Netopolis is either a master scum player or a townie.
Nacho's quickvote in 794 makes me even more sure Netopolis is probably town.
Ok, finally caught up to where I replaced. I'm reasonably sure VRK is town and pretty sure Neto is town. That leaves me with two of Kerrigan, Nacho, and Haylen. I cannot imagine Haylen not being scum. There is no way she is town, it's just not possible. Kerrigan's "scumminess" along with Jase's seems to have been contrived by Nacho and Haylen. They pretty much double teamed him. Nacho hasn't had a single protown post this whole game, and while Jase might not have had many either, I found myself disagreeing with Nacho and agreeing with Jase and Kerrigan, at least to some degree.

unvote, vote Haylen

I'm not going to be voting anyone other than Haylen today. I think that we can get a wagon on her to rival that on Kerrigan.

I am telling you guys that the current wagon on Kerrigan is made up of two scum and a town. I simply cannot believe that all of Haylen, Nacho, and Neto are town. Haylen and Nacho have not played protown games in the least. They are scum waiting for a townie to hammer. The good news is, I'm not going to hammer, no one will play in games with Kerrigan again if he hammers himself and is town, and I think VRK will vote Haylen over Kerrigan, so I don't think we're in trouble of losing just yet.

The even better news, is I believe Neto was more suspicious of Haylen than Kerrigan, so I have faith that we can lynch Haylen. If we do lynch Haylen and she's scum, then whoever didn't vote her is assuredly her buddy.

I disagree with you about 608. Which part of it is bad arguments and wrong?

Why is there a zero chance im town? I concerns me that you seem to know my alignment without seeing my role PM or anything. Only scum would be convinced of my alignment. The amount of times you say there's no way I couldn't be scum in the above post seems to me like you're just trying to convince yourself of it.

How could you know that the wagon on SK is made of both scum? And that makes no sense anyway, why not? Because at least one scum would wait in mylo to enable a quicklynch of a townie. That's classic scum play, I haven't seen a game where scum won where they haven't done that.

I think it's scummy that you're trying to lead the town into mislynching me, by the way.

[Haylen]

Your logic here is contrary. This is because Kerrigan isn't scum, and you're trying to push through a quick lynch before it gets uncovered.

Says who? I use odd tactics. It's what I do. Why isn't SK scum? I do want a lynch yes, on SK or VRK because I believe them to be scum. Not my problem if you don't beleive me.

[Haylen]

Personally, I find process of elimination like this to be a pretty strong town tell. Scum isn't likely to try clearing townies in lylo like Kerrigan has done.

Right. Explain how Kerrigan could've continued a case on VRK when he didn't hammer him during MyLo.

I'm not saying Kerrigan could have continued a case on VRK, I said the opposite, and I said it's a town tell on Kerrigan. I also said I don't think VRK is scum after finishing reading the game.

VRK, what do you think about a Haylen/Nacho scumteam? Haylen unvoted Nacho right before deadline day one, and since then, Nacho hasn't gotten any more attention.
Don't forget that if Haylen and Nacho (or really just if Kerrigan isn't scum) are scum, then

it makes sense for them to identify the weakest player and push them

. Haylen's push today is just ridiculous. In fact, I think she's called more than two players scum today. Her suspicions change to match everyone else's. You've seen her scummy arguments, but I'm about to work up another case.

Your being hypocritical where I've bolded. It's obvious that I'm the weaker town player here. I think it's actually a town tell that I've been finding people scummy, you know. So that's crap logic that you're using there. Stop twisting the facts and scumhunt properly, please.

[Haylen]

Why Haylen is scum:

188, votes Nacho shortly after replacing in, doesn't give any reason. This is the extent of her "proper post" after being sick.
227, she unvotes Nacho while questioning why Sposh put Nacho at L-1. This occurs about a day before deadline, and Haylen has posted virtually no content so far.
251, She explains her unvote by saying her vote was a pressure vote and that Nacho acted town to her pressure, so she didn't want to lynch him.

RED ALERT! SCUMFESSION!

Her explanation to Michel is crap, and IS NOT why she unvoted. In her post where she unvotes, she says that she is worried about a quickhammer. She changes her story from day one to day two. This happens because her initial explanation wasn't flying with Michel.

RED ALERT! SCUMFESSION!

381, someone read this post and explain to me how Haylen does not slip up that she is scum by saying "if Nacho had been scum" (or really how any part of that post isn't written with the knowledge that Nacho isn't scum.) If she was town, how would she 'know' Nacho isn't scum? This post alone is lynchworthy. I still think they're both scum, and this post doesn't discredit that theory because if Haylen is scum, then of course she would say Nacho isn't scum. But if she was town, she wouldn't know that Nacho would be a mislynch, like she says. Pretty easy conclusion to draw that she can't be town.
464, her "case" against VRK is absolutely horrible and all the points are either wrong or fallacious.

Ok, I've actually stopped at this point because I don't even see the point in going on. VRK and Netopolis, you guys should reread some of Haylen's posts (you don't need many) and if you see any shrivel of evidence of her being town, I will find some more points against her.

Post 188 - voted Nachomamma8 in an attempt to pressure him, stop making it out to be more than it actually was. Yeah, it was one of my proper posts after being sick. I ease myself back into posting when I've been ill.

Post 227 - Do you

really

want me to get into that argument again? I admitted I was wrong to unvote so close to deadline. But I stand my the fact that I didn't want to lynch somebody who I believed to be town.

Post 251 - So what?

My explanation to Michael wasn't crap. I elaborated on why I unvoted. Is that a crime, now?

Post 381 - Hypocritical, by your description, you are committing a scumtell by being so sure I am scum. And I didn't KNOW Nacho was scum, I just believed him to be because of the way he reacted to my pressure vote. Btw, by that post alone, you can't be town either.

Post 464 - I don't really give a crap what you think about my analysis. In my eyes it's correct, you can think what you want.

I

love

that you're trying to get the town to do your dirty work for you. Of course, now you've said that, they're only going to be looking out for what makes me scum, rather than what makes me town.

[Incognito]

Vote Count #11 of Day 5

SaintKerrigan (3) <-~ Nachomamma8, Netopalis, Haylen
Haylen (2) <-~ charter, SaintKerrigan

Not voting (1) <-~ Vel-Rahn Koon

With 6 alive, 4 votes will do it.

Friday, January 15th at 7 P.M. EST.

[charter]

I liked VRK's post 413 up until his TBB part, where I get the feeling that he knew Splosh was going to be town.

433, Haylen parrots a really bad argument.

What I don't understand, is why Haylen was driven to a claim, and then the wagon evaporated. I'm going to go have to check this again after I've finished reading the game.
Hmmm, not so sure I'm seeing VRK and Nacho as scum on page 18.
Haylen is just active lurking up a storm around this area.
Got to Haylen's "case" on VRK and now I understand what VRK is talking about.
Could be Nacho and Haylen are the scum.

Top of 25 now, now I'm wanting to lynch Haylen... Ugh.

The bolded is complete bullcrap. If you want to go and look at post number 433, you will quickly see why. The wagon probably evaporated cause there was more scummy people? I've given my explanation as to why I was active lurking, I was ill.

Meant post 432. Nacho is defending himself by saying VRK is abusing his list mod status, which isn't true or relevant. VRK isn't trying to say that he's right because he's a list mod. VRK said Nacho's grasp on mafia theory was poor and he wouldn't be allowed to IC, and his grasp on mafia theory IS poor. Nacho getting lynched day one is undeniably better than a no lynch day one, even if he is town. You then say that Nacho's argument is good and that VRK is scummy because of it, but Nacho's original argument is meaningless, and you agreeing with it is just defending your buddy.

Your wagon pretty obviously disappeared because the people that found you scummy have all died. Why is that? You're scum and have been killing them off. There isn't any scummier person than you.

I disagree with you about 608. Which part of it is bad arguments and wrong?

VRK already knows that 608 is crap, but Neto, if you don't see it, let me know and I'll explain.

RED ALERT! SCUMFESSION!

Here's another scumfession from Haylen.

Why is there a zero chance im town? I concerns me that you seem to know my alignment without seeing my role PM or anything. Only scum would be convinced of my alignment. The amount of times you say there's no way I couldn't be scum in the above post seems to me like you're just trying to convince yourself of it.

Here's some black and white proof that Nacho is her buddy.

SK IS SCUM. Guaranteed. I 100% can guarantee that SK is scum from VRK's post. He is either town, or scum with SK. There is no possible way that SK isn't scum.

Here Nacho "seems to know [SK's] alignment without seeing his role PM or anything" but does Haylen say anything about it? No. She's applying this ridiculous scumtell to just townies whose views don't mesh with hers.
She herself does pretty much the same thing as well.

Seriously, it's so obv I have no clue how anyone else doesn't see it. SK is scum and my be lynched!

She's doing the same thing she's telling everyone else (except Nacho) off for. She is perhaps the most obvious scum player I've ever seen.

I think it's scummy that you're trying to lead the town into mislynching me, by the way.

How is this possible? Since by your own admission Kerrigan and VRK are scum and there's only two scum in the game.

VRK, Neto, how about we lynch Haylen today and then deal with Kerrigan tomorrow? Both of you seem to be suspicious of those two the most, but if we lynch Haylen first, and she flips scum, we get the added bonus of Kerrigan being town, but lynching Kerrigan first won't get us anything.

All of her responses to points raised against her are absolute bullshit. None of them respond to the points, she just appeals to emotion or deflects or something else. She can't be allowed to get away with all this obvious scum play.

[Haylen]

*yawn* you bore me.

[charter]

This pretty much proves my point in my last few sentences in my last post how she is scum and can't refute points brought up against her so she tries to sweep them under the rug with crap like that.

[charter]

Nacho, if you start a bus right now, there's a slim chance you can still win.

[Haylen]

Nacho, if you start a bus right now, there's a slim chance you can still win.

The fact that you are now using the same tactics as i was against VRK and then told me Im scum for them, is a scummy as hell.

[charter]

That wasn't serious...

[Haylen]

Does it matter?

[charter]

MOD, REQUEST DEADLINE EXTENSION PLEASE

I took a long time reading the game, just looking for a few extra days.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you neglected to answer this, please do.

I thought it was a rhetorical question; the answer's obvious enough.

Don't forget that if Haylen and Nacho (or really just if Kerrigan isn't scum) are scum, then it makes sense for them to identify the weakest player and push them. Haylen's push today is just ridiculous. In fact, I think she's called more than two players scum today. Her suspicions change to match everyone else's. You've seen her scummy arguments, but I'm about to work up another case.

And don't forget that if Kerrigan and you are scum, then it makes sense for you to identify the weakest players and push them, getting the bandwagon off your partner and onto an easy town target.

I'm not saying Kerrigan could have continued a case on VRK, I said the opposite, and I said it's a town tell on Kerrigan. I also said I don't think VRK is scum after finishing reading the game.

How is calling someone town WHO DIDN'T HAMMER YOU WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE DURING MYLO a town tell? It's a nulltell because there's absolutely no other option to take, whether you are town or scum. Where are you getting towntell from this?

Also, everyone check out page 19 and Nacho's awesome vote on Sposh which tips the scales from a Haylen lynch to a Sposh lynch. Buddies.

I posted my reasoning for lynching Sposh and Haylen at the time. Do you disagree with it? Why?

Nacho is defending himself by saying VRK is abusing his list mod status, which isn't true or relevant. VRK isn't trying to say that he's right because he's a list mod. VRK said Nacho's grasp on mafia theory was poor and he wouldn't be allowed to IC, and his grasp on mafia theory IS poor.

I don't care whether my grasp on mafia theory is poor or not. Saying that if I applied to become an IC was a completely uncalled for comment that had no place in being commented on during the game; it belonged in the postgame. This is something VRK himself realized after I pointed it out, and apologized for it. I wasn't trying to warp it into something that would point VRK out as scummy; in fact, I'm pretty damn sure I didn't say anything of the sort. I was offended, and I told him where he had misstepped.

Here Nacho "seems to know [SK's] alignment without seeing his role PM or anything" but does Haylen say anything about it? No. She's applying this ridiculous scumtell to just townies whose views don't mesh with hers.

Wait. Do you mean like you're doing right now, or like VRK and Haylen have been doing the entire game?

VRK, Neto, how about we lynch Haylen today and then deal with Kerrigan tomorrow? Both of you seem to be suspicious of those two the most, but if we lynch Haylen first, and she flips scum, we get the added bonus of Kerrigan being town, but lynching Kerrigan first won't get us anything.

This doesn't make sense. At all. If Haylen is scum, how does that make SK town?

[charter]

I thought it was a rhetorical question; the answer's obvious enough.

So you think Haylen is full of it, but you just ignore it? Why don't you question her on this? Why haven't you questioned her total lack of responding to people's points on her the entire game? Why do you even think she is town?

And don't forget that if Kerrigan and you are scum, then it makes sense for you to identify the weakest players and push them, getting the bandwagon off your partner and onto an easy town target.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I voted VRK before and gave it up, which I did because I kept reading the thread and saw that VRK probably wasn't scum, because Haylen is scum and I can't imagine him being her partner. If I was just trying to push a lynch on someone besides Kerrigan, why not pick VRK who others (READ: YOURSELF AND HAYLEN) suspect? Come on, I thought you were supposedly town. Why should I pick Haylen over VRK when I could easily get more votes on VRK? It doesn't make any sense if I was scum with Kerrigan to be doing what I'm doing. Your accusation doesn't even take in to account that you're town, which is because you aren't.

How is calling someone town WHO DIDN'T HAMMER YOU WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE DURING MYLO a town tell? It's a nulltell because there's absolutely no other option to take, whether you are town or scum. Where are you getting towntell from this?

He's clearing someone else as town in MYLO. Clearing people as town is a town tell, scum hate to do it, since it limits their options. Clearing people narrows down the pool of potential scum which is what townies spend the whole game doing and scum spend the whole game impeding. He is thinking like a townie on a very basic level, along the lines of 'well, now I know VRK isn't scum' instead of what scum would be thinking 'I need to mislynch today'.

I posted my reasoning for lynching Sposh and Haylen at the time. Do you disagree with it? Why?

You didn't post any reasoning of your own. You just quoted Haylen's posts and then vote Sposh because "At least Haylen's shown an effort to this game" which is utter crap. Showing effort isn't related to your alignment, but your interest level in the game. So yeah, the reason you voted Sposh (a townie) over Haylen was non-existent and looks EXACTLY like trying not to vote your buddy.

Wait. Do you mean like you're doing right now, or like VRK and Haylen have been doing the entire game?

I call people definite town and scum all the time. It's not a scumtell, despite Haylen's claims, but what is a scumtell, and what Haylen has done, is selectively apply this logic. She does it herself and ignores when Nacho does it, but when anyone else did it, she calls them scummy. THAT is scummy.

This doesn't make sense. At all. If Haylen is scum, how does that make SK town?

We'll cross this bridge when we get to it, but you think that Haylen and Kerrigan can both be scum? Really?

[Haylen]

V/LA for about 2 days. Maybe 3. Personal Issues. Charter can fuck off if he thinks this is a scumtell too

[Incognito]

MOD, REQUEST DEADLINE EXTENSION PLEASE

I'll grant three extra days since I needed back-to-back replacements for this game. Your new deadline will fall on Monday at 7 P.M. EST.

[Nachomamma8]

So you think Haylen is full of it, but you just ignore it? Why don't you question her on this? Why haven't you questioned her total lack of responding to people's points on her the entire game? Why do you even think she is town?

Yay for questions. I ignored it because you had it covered. I haven't questioned her total lack of responding to people's points because VRK had that covered and I didn't feel like regurgitating information. I think she's town because the only person who has come out and tried to defend her is me, Star gave me a newtownie read, and this play is similar to her town meta.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I voted VRK before and gave it up, which I did because I kept reading the thread and saw that VRK probably wasn't scum, because Haylen is scum and I can't imagine him being her partner. If I was just trying to push a lynch on someone besides Kerrigan, why not pick VRK who others (READ: YOURSELF AND HAYLEN) suspect? Come on, I thought you were supposedly town. Why should I pick Haylen over VRK when I could easily get more votes on VRK? It doesn't make any sense if I was scum with Kerrigan to be doing what I'm doing. Your accusation doesn't even take in to account that you're town, which is because you aren't.

I don't suspect VRK. Nice try though. And I suggest you read what you just posted, go to MafiaWiki and search "WIFOM", then come back to me.

He's clearing someone else as town in MYLO. Clearing people as town is a town tell, scum hate to do it, since it limits their options. Clearing people narrows down the pool of potential scum which is what townies spend the whole game doing and scum spend the whole game impeding. He is thinking like a townie on a very basic level, along the lines of 'well, now I know VRK isn't scum' instead of what scum would be thinking 'I need to mislynch today'.

You know, maybe if him making a case on VRK at that point was even possible, this point would hold water.

We'll cross this bridge when we get to it, but you think that Haylen and Kerrigan can both be scum? Really?

Easily. SK came into the game with an attack on VRK, noted me as the second suspect, and noted Haylen third. Said that Haylen was just a "frusterated townie".

Haylen, on the other hand, immediately joined her attack on VRK again. She only ended up switching her vote back to SK when it became clear no one except for them were going to vote VRK.

[Haylen]

Actually, I dont wanna go V/LA

[charter]

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME? HAYLEN SAYS SHE NEEDS V/LA FOR THE TWO DAYS BEFORE DEADLINE, THEN AS SOON AS DEADLINE GETS EXTENDED SHE TAKES IT BACK?

VRK, Neto, let's get it done. Nacho, how are you sweeping that one under the rug?

[Haylen]

Pfft. my ass is it. Screw you. If you want me to make a very long post on my feelings right now, then I will. I have no problem with it.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, how are you sweeping that one under the rug?

I'm taking it as personal issues.

If she wanted to use V/LA to disappear until deadline, then she could just disappear for 5 days instead of 2. Or, she could stay gone for the 3 days she said she was going to anyway...

Are you serious in counting that as a scumtell? Just wondering.

[Haylen]

Either Charter or VRK are scum. But they aren't scum together cause they could've quicklynched SK. Which leads me to believe that SK is one of their scumbuddies.

Why do I suspect Charter? Cause in the past few day's I've seen more crap come from him that I did on that poo fetish website my friend linked me to without telling me what it was first.

[charter]

Nacho, how are you sweeping that one under the rug?

I'm taking it as personal issues.

If she wanted to use V/LA to disappear until deadline, then she could just disappear for 5 days instead of 2. Or, she could stay gone for the 3 days she said she was going to anyway...

Are you serious in counting that as a scumtell? Just wondering.

Dead serious. Who has more motivation to take a V/LA right before deadline in LYLO?
I have no problems with people taking V/LA at any time during a game, like you said, but if you do it so you aren't posting until deadline, then the deadline is extended and you take it back, that's extremely suspicious. That tells me that you just don't want to post until deadline, not that she's unable to post. If she was unable to post for the few days, that's cool, but that's clearly not the case.

Also, she didn't post that in any other game, so it really seems like she just wanted to avoid this game until deadline, which is undeniably scummy.

[Haylen]

Yer...would you honestly like to know why, Charter? Well it's because I'm sick and tired of being told I'm a bad player ect I'm not getting this in any other games and I needed a break from it or I was likely to spill out a load of abuse and you and VRK. Would you have liked that? No.