Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[wolframnhart]

Sibelius is the guy who hasn't posted at all and who was prodded in the same post that I was by Kdub.

Or do you not check the player list, Kiku?

I think at all is a bit of a stretch. He has posted 7 times now (not counting the double post). The attention is on you because you are calling it on yourself.

I am not big on the posting everywhere but here part of the case though, only because I think that is a null tell. I have had plenty of times where I post in a couple threads, maybe a game or two that is picking up speed or has my interest more then any other, and then when i have more time i comment on my other games, but that is just me.

The part I am big on is Starbucks' wording though. Why Sib out of all the players? What made you pick him out compared to say Grandi or Helio? Or any other player that hasn't posted much? And to say Sibelius hasn't posted at all 9when clearly he has) it pretty exact wording, and a lie all around. Had you said "Why haven't you gone after this guy who hasn't posted much content" i could see your point, but I don't see it right now.

unvote, vote Starbuck

[MadCrawdad]

Regarding the lurking accusation against Starbuck, in looking through her posts on the site, it appears that she did have things going on IRL. She posted in several game threads that she was busy, and that she'd be catching up soon, etc. She didn't do that here, though, which is of interest because at the time she was specifically being called for lurking.

Given the fact that she was posting in other threads, it would seem likely that she would have at least seen kikuchiyo's lurking accusation, and answered to it...even if to just say 'Busy. Catching up soon'. She did in other threads, so why not here? It does give the appearance of avoidance.

I think that bv310 is a better choice for scum, though. The fact that he immediately jumped on the 'L-3 is bad'

with

Starbuck, but then did a complete reversal when Starbuck caught heat is scummy. He's also avoided direct questions, and looks like he lost track of his vote at some point.

Starbuck has garnered much of the attention so far, but what do others think of bv310?

----------

@Everyone - How does everyone feel about dybeck calling for a claim so early?

I disagree with it. As previously noted L-3 is far from a lynch....L-4 is even further.

[Starbuck]

@wolf - You ask why Sib of all players. I've already answered this. He was prodded at the same time that I was, but kiku and dybeck aren't jumping all over him. I'm being accused of lurking and yet, he still hasn't posted.

And he hasn't posted in a week.

[Papa Zito]

Starbuck has garnered much of the attention so far, but what do others think of bv310?

Like I said, if I had a second vote it would go there.

[Starbuck]

I also meant hasn't posted as in hasn't posted since his prod, not hasn't posted at all, period.

[dybeck]

There are several people getting away with not posting any content here.

Can I try something that might sound odd, with a promise that I'll explain later?

I'd like nobody to state reasons in favour of a massclaim. But I'd like anyone AGAINST a massclaim to say so, with a full argument why they think it would be a bad idea.

[Starbuck]

So wolf, are you gonna re-think your vote on me? Or are you gonna be opportunistic because you misrepresented what I meant?

[wolframnhart]

Call me opportunistic if you want, but I believe I m voting the right person now. You didn't say you meant since his prod when you first accused him of not posting, if you meant something else you need to post it the first time, not after the fact. I am not psychic so I cannot always know exactly what you mean or what you are thinking. I already said I am not big with the "lurking" part of the case against you, I said I am big on your wording.

Also why are you so worried about my vote if you bring up Kiku and dybeck in your argument?

The reason Kiku and dybeck are jumping all over you as you say, is Sibelius is a lurker/player that needs to be prodded, you they are more calling an active lurker I believe.

[Papa Zito]

There are several people getting away with not posting any content here.

+1

I'd like nobody to state reasons in favour of a massclaim. But I'd like anyone AGAINST a massclaim to say so, with a full argument why they think it would be a bad idea.

My only reservation is that in theme games scum tend to get safeclaims, and I think it'd be hard to figure out which ones are fake without a couple nights worth of actions to look at.

[kikuchiyo]

As I said: Mass claim is a bit against the spirit of the game. If the mod didn't provide safeclaims then that leaves the scumteam scrambling. So its kind of a gamble as to whether or not you can break the set up. At this point I don't really see a reason

for

massclaim. Starbuck seems to be reeling scum and I agree with PZ that night actions can be more useful before any claiming. I'd rather save a mass claim for when it is

needed

.

More votes on Starbuck. She

needs

to be claiming.

[MadCrawdad]

Starbuck has garnered much of the attention so far, but what do others think of bv310?

Like I said, if I had a second vote it would go there.

The thing is, I don't see Starbuck and bv310 as scum together. bv310 jumped on the 'L-3 bad' wagon immediately after Starbuck. That's a pretty risky move for bv310 if they're both scum.

But I'd like anyone AGAINST a massclaim to say so, with a full argument why they think it would be a bad idea.

As mentioned, any safe-claims provided could gum up the works, and leave town power roles out in the open.

[Heilograph]

Hmm how muc longer are you going to take arguing back and forth.
I think I might switc my vote to speed this up, since this isn't going very far anytime soon.

[Starbuck]

kiku, why do I need to claim again?

I don't think you've answered this question.

[Sibelius]

Sorry for disappearing, everyone. The semester just started for me, and I have not had time to do anything besides school, work, and sleep.

I will take a deeper look at what's new in the morning, but just from skimming, I've got a couple things I noticed.

Massclaim: I'm not for it. I fail to see how a Day 1 massclaim will benefit anyone other than the scum since that would let them know who they might want to kill off first and then after that. Frankly, I'm a little suspicious of Dybeck for suggesting it.

So you are saying that I drummed up fear in the guy who can't even come up with his own opinions?

You asked for an example and I gave you one. The number of players who bought it isn't relevant, what's relevant is the attempt was made.

I NEVER said that I was "saving us from danger". I never said that I believe kiku to be town. I just said that I didn't like quicklynches. I wanted to see what Wolf's response would be to my question.

Presumably you bought the subject up because you thought we were in danger of a quicklynch.

You specifically said you were "attempting to halt" it. Those are your words. Attempting to halt it would be saving us from danger.

The way you keep arguing this tells me you've been caught.

I don't buy it. This seems to be the main premise of the case against Starbuck. I agree that Starbuck's action was slightly odd, but I don't think it warrants the amount of scrutiny that it's getting, especially since the point that keeps getting thrown around is how using the words "attempting to halt" indicates someone trying to be a white knight. All I'm seeing in this is a gigantic Too Townie argument. If you're going to stay on this line of thought, at least show us something more significant against Starbuck than what's been discussed already.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

Starbuck (4)

- dybeck, Papa Zito, kikuchiyo, wolframnhart

Riceballtail (0)

-

bv310 (1)

- MadCrawdad

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (0)

-

Heilograph (0)

-

Papa Zito (2)

- Heilograph, Sibelius

wolframnhart (0)

-

Grandi (0)

-

manho (1)

- Riceballtail

dybeck (1)

- Starbuck

Sibelius (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (3)

- bv310, manho, Grandi

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is January 26, ~ 12:30 am MST.

[dybeck]

Does anyone have way to keep this game from stalling that is neither a Starbuck claim nor a massclaim?

I think that the problem lies in the fact that I don't have a feel for any single player that strikes me as overwhelmingly pro-town. If anyone feels that they are that player, they should consider taking a lead here. This game is stalling badly and we're on a clock.

There must be a way - but I'm not coming up with it.

If we end up lynching Starbuck, it will be half for the reasons that everyone's stated so far, and half for the lack of a credible alternative option.

[dybeck]

@ bv310, manho, Grandi:

I'm still of the opinion that votes would help, whether or not you have a feel for the current wagons. At least it would give us something to talk about.

[Riceballtail]

I'm in agreement that Star should claim.

Unvote; Vote:Starbuck

I still like my manho vote, but I have to agree that this game won't go anywhere until at minimum Star claims.

[dybeck]

Riceball: how about a full game analysis from you? Or maybe tell us your case on Manho?

[Riceballtail]

The majority of the game has been based on something between an overreaction and a word twisting on Star's unvote to stop a possible quicklynch. I agree the wagon got a lot of steam, but it was still somewhat RVS, and I didn't really think one would happen.

Why was I voting manho? I asked him why a quickwagon was a good way to get out of the RVS, as I completely disagree. His reply was that I did agree with him, and it took about three posts to actually get the answer I wanted about why they are actually good (of which I still have no possibility of agreeing with, as the argument was weak at best). I will also note the general overreaction to a singular vote. Look at ISO 6 for my biggest problem.

As for right now, I think Star needs to name claim so we can move on with today.

[Starbuck]

No one has stated a reason why I must claim.

Only that I "need to".

So until I get a decent reason as to why I "need to claim". I will not be doing so. You might as well lynch me.

[kikuchiyo]

Star: You are going to be lynched. Please claim. You have been asked by several players, you have still not reconciled the fact that you specifically avoided this thread for several days, and unless you are someone important I see no reason not to lynch you. Name claim is fine, but you must give us something. You have done very little scumhunting besides accusing me of omgus and pointing to Sibelius.

More votes on Starbuck please. If she refuses to claim I am fine lynching her without one. In Aslan's name, let it be done.

[Starbuck]

I did not avoid the thread, but it doesn't matter how many times I say it because I won't be believed.


All you have been doing is tunneling on me. You have not mentioned anyone else.

Why don't you try to play the game rather than use outside influences?

[Starbuck]

This is a very opportunistic bandwagon and I will not appease those who are so opportunistic with my claim.

[Heilograph]

unvote, vote:star