Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS)


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:58 pm

Post by Nicodemus »

Jack wrote:No, it's not the best plan:


mafia role pm wrote:At night, your team may choose to shoot one person. You may shoot someone
in any universe that your team has a player alive in.


Win condition: You win when your team wins in EITHER universe you are in. You win a universe when you have
eliminated all other mafia team members
We want to transfer one of our mafiosos to the other universe, and have them transfer one of theirs to ours. That potentially results in mafia killing other mafia, especially since the ultimate goal is to win in both universes
Exactly.

This is why we should use our teleports on the scummiest people. It:

a) gets potential scum out of our universe, which is as good as a lynch for our wincon

b) sets up cross-kills for the two mafias

c) eliminates possible mis-lynch candidates

The question is, is it better for us to use the teleports every night, or is the confirmed townie every other day more useful for town?
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:05 pm

Post by Jack »

DeathRowKitty wrote:Well, that would require having a good idea of someone who's mafia, in which case we should be lynching that person instead of teleporting.

Then again, I can see the logic to that. Our goal is to win this game, not the other and as long as we can scumhunt more effectively than the town from the other universe, a trade like that would benefit us. It would also produce some healthy competition between the two towns and it would probably be more in the spirit of the game.

I'm really fine with either plan. We do have to get the other universe to agree to it though.
In effect, it's like having two lynches. We could potentially win by the end of day 2.

From what I've read of the other universe, they aren't too quick to the uptake over there. Kind of stupid in general. Zoraster's system must have put all the crappy eggs in one basket by mistake. I doubt we need to worry about them sending over mafia, they'll probably pull one of ours in fact.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:11 pm

Post by Nicodemus »

Jack wrote:From what I've read of the other universe, they aren't too quick to the uptake over there. Kind of stupid in general. Zoraster's system must have put all the crappy eggs in one basket by mistake. I doubt we need to worry about them sending over mafia, they'll probably pull one of ours in fact.
lol at this. There are some pretty well-known scummers over there, such as DGB, E_K, Ojanen, farside, Plum, Raskol, Rhinox (I have read games from all of these players prior to this game, and they seem quite skilled). My guess is they're just getting their pre-game shenanigans out, so they can settle in and be rational scum-hunters later.

I think Plum might be underestimating our universe a little though, but we'll see.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:13 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

Though about it some, agree with Jack.
Should we make up some system for "voting" for who to teleport or leave it up to the teleporter for himself?
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:16 pm

Post by Elmo »

Okay, that's interesting. Before the game started, I was thinking that each town would try and push scum out and pull townies in, sort of a tug of war. The teleporter works kind of like a vig that way. I'm not sure giving that up is worth what we get for it - forcing the mafia kill to be random every other night and get a confirmed townie every other day doesn't seem that strong in comparison.

Unless I'm misreading, the teleporter has to maintain a 2:1 push:pull ratio. So you couldn't actually pull and then pull again; you'd have to pull, push, push, pull at minimum, I think. It's kind of ambiguous, though, they "must pull once for every two teleports" but later it talking about maintaining a ratio..
mod
, does that mean they have to maintain the ratio, or that the number of teleports cannot exceed twice the number of pulls + 2? Are unsuccessful actions counted in that?
DeathRowKitty wrote:Well, that would require having a good idea of someone who's mafia, in which case we should be lynching that person instead of teleporting.
Actually, the best way to use the teleport is probably as a directed vig. That is, use it as a second lynch. The teleporter should probably just push out whoever gets the second highest number of votes when we lynch, or something. I'm not sure what we do about pulling.

I think Jack's point is quite interesting. While there's 3 of a mafia group alive, they'd probably kill in the universe where they had 2 members if they were split (unless they thought they'd be teleported out soon). If there were only two mafia alive, though, they might switch if they had better chances over there. So if we either teleported one and lynched one, or teleported two, we might not get a nightkill here, which would be a big win. That's if the other town don't send us any wee beasties, of course.

Also it's Teleportation Mafia. I kind of signed up for some teleportation antics :V
Succinctness is pro-town.

Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:18 pm

Post by zorastermod »

This is Slicey reporting in. I will be mostly running this game, while zoraster runs the other game.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:20 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

For pulling we should just go for whoever their most pro-town looking player is, right?
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:21 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

I'm happy with leaving the decision on who to teleport to the teleporter. At the very least, not knowing who's going to be teleported makes it harder for the scum to decide on a NK.

For example, let's say the teleporter was going to teleport scum to the other universe. Scum might decide to NK him to avoid it. Or maybe one scum is already in the other universe and the teleporter is about to teleport another. Scum might decide to switch their focus to the other universe.

Plus, scum have the power to have a decent influence on a vote, without revealing too much information through voting patterns, since we won't know the alignment of teleported players until later on.

Basically, I think it's better we just let the teleporters do what they want.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:22 pm

Post by Jack »

Nicodemus wrote:
Jack wrote:From what I've read of the other universe, they aren't too quick to the uptake over there. Kind of stupid in general. Zoraster's system must have put all the crappy eggs in one basket by mistake. I doubt we need to worry about them sending over mafia, they'll probably pull one of ours in fact.
lol at this. There are some pretty well-known scummers over there, such as DGB, E_K, Ojanen, farside, Plum, Raskol, Rhinox (I have read games from all of these players prior to this game, and they seem quite skilled). My guess is they're just getting their pre-game shenanigans out, so they can settle in and be rational scum-hunters later.

I think Plum might be underestimating our universe a little though, but we'll see.
Ah, I was just messing with them. I figured a few insults would help make sure they didn't go with the 'trade teleporters' gimmick.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:23 pm

Post by zorastermod »

mod, does that mean they have to maintain the ratio, or that the number of teleports cannot exceed twice the number of pulls + 2? Are unsuccessful actions counted in that?
Failed actions do not count. Basically, in any block of three actions the teleporter makes it will need to have one Pull and two teleports. So some examples:

Good to go:
N1: Teleport
N2: Pull
N3: Teleport
N4: Teleport
N5: Unsuccessful action
N6: Pull
N7: Teleport

Not okay:
N1: Pull
N2: Teleport
N3: Pull
N4: Teleport
N5: Teleport
N6: Teleport
N7: Unsuccessful Action

Does that help answer the question?
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:25 pm

Post by Jack »

DeathRowKitty wrote: Basically, I think it's better we just let the teleporters do what they want.
I agree. Letting the teleporter decide for themselves actually gives the mafia some motivation to eliminate the people who suspect them, unless they want to be transported...
For pulling we should just go for whoever their most pro-town looking player is, right?
As long as they don't have an ugly avatar.
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:56 pm

Post by Elmo »

Ellibereth wrote:For pulling we should just go for whoever their most pro-town looking player is, right?
Right, but it's difficult to discuss who to pull. Hmm, thinking about it, the thing is that we don't want the other town to win, and we don't want them to lose - if either happens, then we lose our second lynch and
our
chances of winning go down. So, at least to start out with, we don't really want to say stuff that which would help the other town, I think. There's also the point that like half of their lynches end up in our lap - we want them to contain as many townies as possible, really. If they correctly identify a townie, they're more likely to send a mafioso our way. Although if things start to look bad for them, we should probably start trying to help them, so they don't lose. Except we might not necessarily know how things are, because we won't know for sure how many mafia we've managed to palm off onto them. It's pretty weird.

This is probably all going to go incoherent once people start being teleported. Woo. I guess I can see the scummiest people going back and forth. Maybe the universes would have a difference of opinion on who was scummier and we could set up a trade proper? :)
zorastermod wrote:Does that help answer the question?
I think so. Thanks!

You know what would be really awesome? A race to see who can lynch first. ^_^
Succinctness is pro-town.

Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Post by fhqwhgads »

DeathRowKitty wrote:I'm happy with leaving the decision on who to teleport to the teleporter. At the very least, not knowing who's going to be teleported makes it harder for the scum to decide on a NK.
This. While the aforementioned plan sounds good, its going to suck balls reducing the game to a system.

Also, what would be the cost if we employ the strategy, but the other universe decides not to?
DeathRowKitty wrote:For example, let's say the teleporter was going to teleport scum to the other universe. Scum might decide to NK him to avoid it. Or maybe one scum is already in the other universe and the teleporter is about to teleport another. Scum might decide to switch their focus to the other universe.
Or would they? Would they effectively abandon one member to set up the win in this universe? Playing against another mafia faction will be harder than trying to win on their own on one side, wouldn't it?
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:42 pm

Post by DocPotter »

Our universe should get all the Universe 2 mafia to claim right now.
We teleport 1, they day teleport 1 of their own and we lynch town. Then immediatly lynch town and teleport the third, before Universe 1 can react. (Or lynch anyone they teleport over)

Not good for the Mafia of Universe 2 of course, but we'd get a Universe 2 town win by the end of the week.
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:53 pm

Post by fhqwhgads »

DeathRowKitty wrote:I'm happy with leaving the decision on who to teleport to the teleporter. At the very least, not knowing who's going to be teleported makes it harder for the scum to decide on a NK.
This. While the aforementioned plan sounds good, its going to suck balls reducing the game to a system.

Also, what would be the cost if we employ the strategy, but the other universe decides not to?
DeathRowKitty wrote:For example, let's say the teleporter was going to teleport scum to the other universe. Scum might decide to NK him to avoid it. Or maybe one scum is already in the other universe and the teleporter is about to teleport another. Scum might decide to switch their focus to the other universe.
Or would they? Would they effectively abandon one member to set up the win in this universe? Playing against another mafia faction will be harder than trying to win on their own on one side, wouldn't it?
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:11 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

Quoted because mykonian said to quote it:
mykonian wrote:Healthy competition between universes is good? JC, capitalism in mafia games, and it rings no alarm with anyone.

Seriously, what you are thinking about will do no good. Teleporters are no vigs. Esspecially since both towns are probably about equal in strenght, the teleportation is unlikely to get all the mafia out of one universe into the other without the other universe sending them back.

Randomly, the teleportation will have very little effect. We send and they send, and both towns will not benefit. Screwing them over will just screw us over too. Because we will be screwed: using this tactic it forces the towns to reread the other universe, it kills arguments based on scum-interactions, and the new player coming into this universe is forced to reread the whole game. A lot of information is lost, and all the mechanic does is confuse.

Plum is right: scumhunting will win the game. Town, by definition, wins by helping each other, playing together. In this game this is no different, even across universes. Please someone quote this in the other universe.
mykonian wrote:the strategy I propose: (for clarity)

no teleportation. In case the other universe sends a player, teleport him back next night, that way restoring the universes. That player sadly would not be able to post in the other universe, but he would not have to worry about splitting his attention.

Further, no universe would have to worry about the amount of scum and scumteams.

The teleporter=vig strategy only works during endgame, where it is the last action made (winning or losing the game afterwards).
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:16 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

mykonian wrote:extra information supporting this strategy:

if there is no teleportation, we have 4 mislynches. Added to this that there are 2 players that can be confirmed, the game seems to be balanced in favor of town: meaning that the mod expects something to work against the town. The mafia has no real powerrole that could cause this, so it must be the mechanic itself!
I disagree. 12-3 mountanous would favor mafia. Even with the mason, it's probably balaned in favor of mafia. The teleporter is meant to be a positive pro-town role. Not teleporting means we lose whatever advantage it was meant to give the town.

I don't support the no teleporting idea.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:57 am

Post by fhqwhgads »

^
QFT
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:59 am

Post by Maelyn »

I don't know what we're talking about. No teleporting?

OH HEAVENS NO!

Scum have a teleporter. They're not afraid to use it. We have a pro-town teleporter to counter it, so why not use it?

前向き (sorry, my oral presentation about Japan is getting in to me and sorry for the crap post, because, you see, I only have 30 minutes of lunch. :<)
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:00 am

Post by Kise »

My gut grumbles at you, Jack.
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:03 am

Post by Maelyn »

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. We are against the universe 1 Mafia?

How the hell does that work?

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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:04 am

Post by Maelyn »

Maelyn wrote:Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. We are against the universe 1 Mafia?

How the hell does that work?

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I meant Mafia and Town, obv.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:16 am

Post by Kise »

A win is a win. Some of us won't be in this universe forever so I wouldn't say we're against uni-1.
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:16 am

Post by Kise »

Maelyn wrote:前向き
O...?
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:53 am

Post by zorastermod »

THE GAME BEGINS NOW.

Deadline: 2/8 11am EST

Day 1 Vote Count
animorpherv1 ( 0 )
Anon ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
DocPotter ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
Elmo ( 0 )
fhqwhads ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
Jahudo ( 0 )
Kairyuu ( 0 )
Kise ( 0 )
Lowell ( 0 )
Maelyn ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 15 ) animorpherv1 Anon DeathRowKitty DocPotter don_johnson Ellibereth Elmo fhqwhads Jack Jahudo Kairyuu Kise Lowell Maelyn Nicodemus
Total ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

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