Good Omens Mafia! Game Over.

[olio]

vote: Blackberry

Based on the attack on me and not answering to my counterpoints. If I understood you right, Blackberry, you think I'm horseman because I gave some slack to Gaspode, right? How does Genocide Heart fit in that theory of yours?

[Thoth]

I'd also point out that Thoth doesn't seem to have appreciated what Locus Cosecant's death tells us, in the way that Mr. Flay has. It's certainly possible that Blackberry thought the same thing.

I don't think it's wise to put any weight on me missing something right now. I've been abroad more than a week multiple times during this game. Coupled with the extremely long nights I'm basically not aware of 95% that happened before the last page or so. Until I find the time to do a complete reread my posts are mainly based on the last page(s), the opening post and the occasional 'Display posts from xxx'.

[Blackberry]

I am not fabricating a mason claim, it is REAL.

Mod, I request a replacement for PitBull.

Errrrr, this is getting rather frustrating when you can't come out and fully claim.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not comfortable voting Blackberry w/o even hearing from PitBull... so no vote yet. However if I'm reading the first post correctly, Thoth has been here since the beginning, and we're still getting two anti-town kills, which means our scum are still active (and may even be a significant plurality of the active people). Thoth's confusion doesn't sit well with me, but I can't remember much before yesterday either, mainly because of all the replacing...

That's all for now.

[mneme]

Fabricating a mason claim on the theory that your "partner" is idle isn't a play anyone would reasonably do. I just don't belive it, though i'd like to see a replacement for pitbull. The only way I could see this working out was if Blackberry had a "silence" ability.

If anything, if Fudlu didn't had a very strong "claim", I'd be very suspicious of how he was pushing this.

[Fuldu]

We've had nine replacements so far and there are three or four current players who could stand to be replaced. The very fact that the mods let me replace back in suggests that they're having a difficult time finding replacements. I don't think trying to claim mason with an inactive player is so unreasonable at that point. And we're talking about a claim that requires that there be three mason groups in this game. Since at least one member is dead in each of the other two groups subsequent to their having 'claimed' mason, this seems the least likely of the three (especially, obviously) to me.

Blackberry hasn't been in the game long, was away for part of the month he has been in the game, and has expressed confusion about what's going on at least twice. While basing my argument that Blackberry may simply have thought that he was claiming the obvious masons on Thoth's having missed the alternative counterclaim isn't necessarily a great argument in general, I think it works just fine in this particular case. Without a Pooky investigation, I don't have much else to go on today, and this seems to me like more than a strong enough argument to push for a lynch.

It surprises me that there's as little support for this bandwagon as there is. If I were scum and Blackberry weren't on my team, I'd be quite happy to jump on a bandwagon being pushed by a relatively undisputed pro-town. If I'm wrong about Blackberry (and I'll grant the possibility that I am), I'll want to look at esme and olio a bit harder.

[mneme]

Fudlu: the problem is, lynching Blackberry without a replacement destroys information -- we could either change the probability of blackberry being scum pro/con or link another player into him, which could not be a bad thing. So yes, there's a lot of resistance to supporting a lynch which arguably destroys info.

[mneme]

Fudlu: the problem is, lynching Blackberry without a replacement destroys information -- we could either change the probability of blackberry being scum pro/con or link another player into him, which could not be a bad thing. So yes, there's a lot of resistance to supporting a lynch which arguably destroys info.

[Mr. Flay]

Exactly. I'm not ready to string ANYBODY up right now, simply because we haven't garnered hardly any more information from the Day. If you weren't nearly confirmed as innocent (and that assumes our theory on who the scum are is correct, something you could be using to our advantage), I'd say you would be a good target. But you *seem* to be trying, which is more than I can say for most in this game...

I admit it. I am totally lost. With all the replacements, the extra-long nights and uber-long days, I have next to no idea what's going on from page to page. I don't have the 6 hours it would take to read back over and piece it all together, at least not this weekend...

[Blackberry]

I have a question... why does everything think God/Metatron are a bad group or SK??

There's been two kills each night for the past two nights, I think it would be obvious that they are from the Horsemen and Dukes of Hell???

[Fuldu]

Night One there were four deaths. It's Day Five and we still haven't identified where two of them came from. This leads me to believe that the Metatron, at least, is likely to be scum who has either decided not to kill, has been totally absent from the game since Night One, or has had his kills ascribed to somebody else.

If you look at the text of the summary of deaths in the second post, you'll see some inconsistencies. These may be due to mod inconsistency, but they can also be explained by more killers. For example, we had two deaths last night, but no one was burned. They just died. Also, Internet Stranger and Coron are listed as having been burned. I don't distinguish that from the way in which FulduI was enveloped in flames, but I do distinguish it from the fact that he is also listed as having died. I think he was targeted by two killers.

My main problem with this line of reasoning is that, except for Night One, the horsemen are either getting the same tag as what I presume to be Metatron, "died," when Night One their (Famine's) tag was "died of malnutrition," or they haven't killed since Night One (really unlikely). This tends to move things more in the direction of mod inconsistency.

[mith]

This is fairly low on my priority list right now, so I haven't had a chance to re-read or anything, but I thought I'd check in. I remain happy with my vote for korais.

[Mr. Flay]

Fuldu:

Blonde Anchorwoman: Good morning, it is 8AM on day 5. Two tragedies occurred lat night. What investigators believe to be a dog was found

burned almost beyond any recognition

. The owned has not been identified and has not stepped forward. Our scene reporter has the update on the other terrible event of last night. Locus Cosecant, dog, was found killed night 5.

(emphasis added)

We're still getting a burn kill at night, which does lean toward being the Dukes of Hell's calling card. I'm also perplexed by the fact that the Horsemen deaths, assuming there have been some, are no longer being identified by who does the killing, but it's *possible* that this is due to Polotet having gone AWOL in a dramatic fashion... remember that he wrote the 'died of malnutrition' scene.

So, Blackberry has come as close to claiming as is possible, in his last post (and DON'T CONFIRM THIS, Blackberry, unless you want to get modkilled) by asking about the God/Metatron = mafia theory. I'm starting to think we got it wrong about that, which makes me wonder if we got led by the nose on that... at least one of our Horsepersons and Hastur are still alive, after all.

Going back to the beginning, like Inigo Montoya:

Alive (16/32)
=================
DarkLight140
Locus Cosecant (who can't possibly actually be alive -

mods!?!

)
SinisterOverlord
Mneme (replaces Seol [replaces NanookTheWolf])

Mr. Flay

(replaces Flying Dutchman)
SubtleTactix
AnnoyingPest (The Machine 86 (replaces KingEnigma))
Olio
Blackberry (replaces Iammars (replaces lazarusmoth))
Thoth
Esme (replaces JDTAY)
Pitbull (replaces PBuG)
Fuldu II (replaces DoomCow)
Electra
mith
PookyTheMagicalBear
Korais666

Dead (16/32)

with 'suspects' added

=================
Internet Stranger (Brian, A Boy, and member of Them) was burned, Night 1.

(Dukes of Hell)

Porro (Pepper, A Girl, and member of Them) died of malnutrition, Night 1.

(Famine)

Mole (Aziraphale, An angel, and part-time rare book dealer) was run over, and has presumably discorporated, Night 1.

(Them/Horsepersons?)

Mastermind of Sin (Beelzebub, A Likewise Fallen Angel and Prince of Hell) died, and has presumably discorporated, Night 1.

(unidentifiable death - Death/Horsepersons?)

mepmuff (Newton Pulsifer, Wages Clerk and Witchfinder Private) was run over, Night 2.

(Them/Horsepersons)

Stewie (Crowley, An Angel who did not so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards) died, and has presumably discorporated, Night 2.

(unidentifiable death - Death/Horsepersons?)

Gaspode (DEATH) was lynched, and discorporated, Day 2.
Dragon Phoenix (Atlantisan, Townie) was mod killed, Night 3.
PeaceBringer (Anathema Device, Practical Occultist and Professional Descendent) was crushed by fish, Night 3.

(mith, supposedly, though this means no Horseperson kill)

Coron (Shadwell, Witchfinder Sergeant) was burned, Night 3.

(Dukes of Hell)

Peachy, Pollution (Pollution), was lynched day 3.
Aelyn, Satan (A Fallen Angel; the Adversary), died night 4.

(Horsepersons? the same 'unnatural causes' style as N1)

Fuldu, Mr. Tyler (A Chairman of a Residents' Association), was enveloped by fire, and died, night 4.

(Dukes of Hell)

Genocide Heart, Ligur (Likewise Fallen Angel and Duke of Hell), was lynched day 4.
Locus Cosecant, Dog (Satanical hellhound and cat-worrier), died night 5.

(burned - Dukes of Hell)

Rolandofthewhite, Madame Tracy (Painted Jezebel [mornings only, Thursdays by arrangement] and medium), died night 5.

(just plain died - Horsepersons?)

And now for my not-quite-six-hour review of the thread:

• Pooky voted for gaspode, hated Coron and PeaceBringer (I think). Got a 'dead innocent' N1 (IS?) and mith as 'bad vibes' N2, Peachy w/'bad vibes' on N3, innocent result on roland N4, no investigation N5.
  
• I'm starting to wonder if Pooky and mith are Horsepersons together. However he did guess right on roland, when there was no incentive to clear his name. Why didn't roland, as a Painted Jezebel, give him bad vibes though??
  
• Only two 'death by bike/run-over' so far. We should be able to ask the surviving Them if they killed with bikes Night 1, and any other night. Otherwise, the bike deaths are probably another Horseperson, which is disquieting since we already have Famine killing N1. Maybe they all have a one-shot in addition to a group 'run them over'?
  
• SinisterOverlord had a good analysis of the game on Day One... maybe too good. Then he dropped off the face of the game for a long time, and ended up voting Gaspode when there was no real wagon against him. Probably townish.
  
• SubtleTactix thought the burning death was Witchfinders, as well. (this in addition to DEATH and Ligur, for reference). Later went after Aelyn. VERY lurky. Also liked the idea of 'testing' the Them by lynching one of them, which is suspicious. Possibly Hastur.
  
• Blackberry replaced Iammars/lazarusmoth, which could become important later. lazarusmoth wanted to go for Coron, an easy target, in post 106.
  
• korais666 said he hadn't read the book, and had an interesting comment about the bike-related death in post 35.
  
• KingEnigma might be one of the witchfinders...
  
• Electra was almost as unhelpful as Peachy, though I'm probably exposing some sort of anti-cute-female-avatar bias here... she put the 8th of 14 votes onto mith D2, and then didn't worry about removing it or not. Very silent overall.
  
• Genocide Heart defended korais666 in post 87, and to a lesser extent mepmuff.
  
• There almost surely cannot be a "Homeowner's Association" masonic group, because Fuldu was Mr. Tyler and replaced back in. That eliminates one more mason group from consideration.
  
• DarkLight140 was awfully non-committal on the whole Aelyn-Gaspode connection, in post 228. Also jumped on the Coron wagon instead of keeping his vote on korais666. korais666 voted for Coron shortly afterward (so did Pooky, Stewie, Gaspode, etc, but we know - or think we know - their allegiances). However he later turned out to be a mason with Locus, so that all goes out the window...
  
• Seol also hopped on Coron in post 276, and he's been less committal than usual. Then all the people who are suspicious dropped off the radar while LC/Stewie/Coron/mith/olio discussed the Coron & Gaspode wagons... and later in the late 300s, he wanted Coron to give up his mason partner. Also in post 451 he claimed that Pooky's investigation was *verified* non-insane, non-naive, non-paranoid, when there was no such thing (we don't even know who Pooky investigated N1, for instance).
  
• lazarusmoth (Blackberry's predecessor) was strangely ambivalent about voting Gaspode or Coron in post 369. Wanted other people to give their suspicions... hadn't read the book. He did find Peachy's argument about lynching Gaspode 'compelling'...
  
• Thoth, interestingly, bought Coron's claim/innocence sight unseen. Since mepmuff was Coron's partner, I find this interesting...but probably pro-town. On the other hand, he jumped RIGHT onto mith's 'guilt' when Pooky initially posted it...
  
• I don't get Pooky's role. If mith = Agnes (my current best theory, barring mith being scum), then I could see Pooky getting a bad vibe IF he was a Witchfinder. But unless Pooky = TSNCA Pulsifer and NOT part of the modern-day masonic group that was Coron and Mepmuff, there's none left, really (DarkLight140 mentioned this possibility in post 787). Obviously none of them can confirm this, but I'll throw it out there. mith keeps saying his role name should be OBVIOUS... and it would be terribly ironic if Agnes killed her own Professional Descendant. But Pooky got the same 'bad vibe' for Peachy (a Horseperson) as he did for mith (supposedly pro-town).
  
• Why is olio voting for LC in post 473???
  
• DoomCow (who became Fuldu II) had something interesting in his last post (564), saying he was looking for a particular player before his role could become useful. Then he turned out to be a member of Them, assuming Locus' death means anything at all. Does that mean they didn't know who Adam was??? Or they had to find each other to become masons (which might explain the early outing, especially if DarkLight140 is Adam, as he confirmed both of the others).
  
• TheMachine86 (formerly KingEnigma, now AnnoyingPest) stalled quite a bit on the Gaspode lynch of D2, which could point to him being a Horseperson.
  
• PitBull/PBuG is supposedly Blackberry's masonic partner... neither of them, in any incarnation, has been very helpful to the game.

All of which leads me to my List:

1. SinisterOverlord/SubtleTactix/Electra/korais666
   
2. Blackberry
   
3. Thoth/Mneme
   
4. mith/Pooky
   
5. olio/AnnoyingPest/PitBull
   
6. esme/DarkLight140/Fuldu II
   
7. me

List not guaranteed to be accurate. Void where prohibited. You may have other rights/abilities not enumerated in this post. Contact your lawyer for details.

Vote: korais666

Finally, my questions:
1. DarkLight or Fuldu II: Since we can ask about abilities, I think I can ask you this: Did your mason group have a night kill that you used N1 or N2?
2. Anyone: Why was there no identifiable Duke of Hell kill Night 2? Maybe if/when Satan killed for the group, it was via a different mechanism...
3. If 2 is true,

[Mr. Flay]

3b. If 2 is true, then why is there no Horseperson-type kill Night 3? Actually this doesn't follow from 2, it's a separate question....

[Dragon Slayer]

I've been planning a trip to look at colleges and will be away look at them from Wed.- probably next Tuesday. I'll give Polotet a few swift kicks to kick his ass into gear.

[Thoth]

Not really sure what you're trying to imply here.

Thoth, interestingly, bought Coron's claim/innocence sight unseen.

Why exactly is that interesting? As I said only a few posts ago a false mason claim for scum has no chance of working in the long run. It may keep you alive a bit longer, but it won't win you the game.

On the other hand, he jumped RIGHT onto mith's 'guilt' when Pooky initially posted it...

Excuse me? Is it suspicious now that I vote Mith after someone posts this:

vote Mith

investigation says guilty, i got a dead innocent day one so I am fairly certain of my sanity,

nuff said

That Pooky later turned out to not be a straight cop is not something I could make up from this post.

[Dragon Slayer]

Vote Count

3 Blackberry (Fuldu, Esme, Olio)
2 Korais666 (Mith, Mr. Flay)

9 to lynch

.

[Mr. Flay]

Not really sure what you're trying to imply here.

Thoth, interestingly, bought Coron's claim/innocence sight unseen.

Why exactly is that interesting? As I said only a few posts ago a false mason claim for scum has no chance of working in the long run. It may keep you alive a bit longer, but it won't win you the game.

Well, it was 'interesting' in a note to myself in Notepad while rereading the whole thread, but nothing much ever came of it. I've agreed with your later statements about false mason claims, so it can probably be disregarded.

On the other hand, he jumped RIGHT onto mith's 'guilt' when Pooky initially posted it...

Excuse me? Is it suspicious now that I vote Mith after someone posts this:

vote Mith

investigation says guilty, i got a dead innocent day one so I am fairly certain of my sanity,

nuff said

That Pooky later turned out to not be a straight cop is not something I could make up from this post.

Mmm hmmm. In a large themed game by these mods, based on this book, you automatically inferred 100% sanity/veracity on Pooky's part and non-Millerness on mith's? Granetd, I wasn't here that day, but I don't think I'd have been so quick... but I'm always suspicious, of everybody (except myself).

[DarkLight140]

To my knowledge, no one in my mason group has a nightkill, used N1/2 or otherwise.

As for why the Hells didn't get a kill Night 2, I would guess that there's a working doc, roleblocker, invincible, or etc. that stopped it.

The solution to the N2 question can also apply to N3, although one kill type vanishing and another appearing, espicially when each person in a scum group probably has their own kill method, is... potentially tale-telling. The Horsepersons, knowing their own kill methods, could probably choose the most ambiguous one.

[Annoyingpest]

Mith has been leading crusades against scum so I'll
Vote: Korais

The whole Blackberry thing is heresay until we hear from Pitbull =\

[Thoth]

Mmm hmmm. In a large themed game by these mods, based on this book, you automatically inferred 100% sanity/veracity on Pooky's part and non-Millerness on mith's? Granetd, I wasn't here that day, but I don't think I'd have been so quick... but I'm always suspicious, of everybody (except myself).

Not exactly. Let me quote myself from a previous game. (Unfortunately it's Nedermafia):

Verder ben ik van mening dat miller's gelyncht moeten worden.

Which sort of translates to: Furthermore my opinion is that millers should be lynched.
Basically when a cop comes out with a guilty result (and especially a cop that got a dead innocent as innocent) I'm putting on my vote. Only a very good roleclaim has a chance to get it of again.
Millers I always want to lynch. You cannot let go of dozens of scum just for the occasional game in which the mod adds a miller role.

[Mr. Flay]

You cannot let go of dozens of scum just for the occasional game in which the mod adds a miller role.

Of course not. But much like a mason claim, you can wait on them sometimes for more information/behavior to come to light. And I still maintain that

Good Omens

is particularly ripe for a Miller/insane-investigator type role.

Which is not to say I'm defending mith, per se. His night kill has yet to yield us any gold, and with two-three scum groups out there, joining on someone else's lynch during the day is not that hard. But there doesn't seem to be any concensus to go after him right now (indeed, there's hardly any chatter at all, besides the 3-4 of us ). I'm not sure if Annoyingpest is just being...well, annoying, or if the "mith has been leading crusades" is his heartfelt belief.

[mith]

Bah, I keep forgetting I'm still alive in this game.

FOS: Annoyingpest

. I'll be the first to admit that I have been pretty rubish in this game so far (both due to lack of participation and not being used to the style of well over half the players).

Mr. Flay: I believe I have dropped enough hints for a careful reader to figure out my role. That you continue to cling to your "best theory" in spite of the evidence is extremely peculiar.

[Mr. Flay]

Mr. Flay: I believe I have dropped enough hints for a careful reader to figure out my role. That you continue to cling to your "best theory" in spite of the evidence is extremely peculiar.

Well, consider it from my perspective. My first choice for a role that kills with fish (Adam) is not possible now, for you. My second choice doesn't seem to meet with your approval, though of course you can't *tell* me when/if I get it right. No other characters fit both criteria (scummy-seeming and supernatural) in my worldview, so what am I left with?

It's not like we have a choice of another investigator to validate you with, apparently. You're immune to Pooky (or at least irrelevant), and you keep claiming how your 'game is off', which is why you're not doing all that well at catching scum either during the day or at night. Plus, if you're a pro-town vigilante, why are you still alive?? For that matter, why is Pooky still alive? It's not like the scum couldn't overwhelm/outfox a protective role *once* in a while... they've certainly got a good enough shooting average with other players. You two are our only outed 'power' roles, and yet you're both still breathing...

On the negative side of my theory, I really can't conceive of either a Horseman or a Duke of Hell killing with fish, either... unless Satan covered for you, or something weird. It's not enough for me to vote you, today, but how long are we supposed to suffer a Miller to live? Thoth has a point, there... right now, I'ev still got better targets. But since *you* can't tell me what your role is, and *I* can't seem to guess it... I'm continuing to work with the Agnes theory.

[mith]

Well, consider it from my perspective. My first choice for a role that kills with fish (Adam) is not possible now, for you. My second choice doesn't seem to meet with your approval, though of course you can't *tell* me when/if I get it right. No other characters fit both criteria (scummy-seeming and supernatural) in my worldview, so what am I left with?

It doesn't really have anything to do with meeting with my approval. It just doesn't fit with what's been posted, at all. I strongly suggest everyone read posts 454, 459, and 801 again.

and you keep claiming how your 'game is off', which is why you're not doing all that well at catching scum either during the day or at night

a. I don't "keep claiming" my game is off. I've said something along those lines twice, and the second was in response to AP's misguided statement.
b. I haven't caught any scum at night because *I'm not killing at night*. If the town thinks I should be killing, by all means, say so. I'd prefer to wait until we're closer to an endgame, myself.
c. I'm not sure what your point in mentioning this is anyway. I'd be trying to catch other scum even if I was scum myself. That I have been wrong about some of the newer players is pretty irrelevant. I suppose you could make the argument that since I was against voting for Gaspode early on I might be a Horseman, but I don't think you actually believe that. I certainly would've cast more doubt on Pooky's Peachy result if I were in that group.

Plus, if you're a pro-town vigilante, why are you still alive?? For that matter, why is Pooky still alive? It's not like the scum couldn't overwhelm/outfox a protective role *once* in a while... they've certainly got a good enough shooting average with other players. You two are our only outed 'power' roles, and yet you're both still breathing...

There are plenty of reasons why scum might choose to not try to kill us. Pooky, if there's a protective role out there, is almost certainly protected; overwhelming would take correctly guessing that someone else would try to kill him too. I remain good lynchbait for later on, at least until someone figures out my role. They could be gunning for each other (roland had plenty of suspicion put on him, for example). Going after masons (Locus) seems reasonable as well; if I were scum, I'd much rather get to the end of the game against a miller-vig than a group of masons.