Mafia 39: Back to Gambits - Game over!

[rolandofthewhite]

I like the dybeck wagon much better.

Unvote; Vote: dybeck

.

[Blackberry]

I still think Speedy is scum.

STD, I wanted a claim, lol.

Have we discussed the possibilities of a mass-role-claim? o.O

Jeep, I want your opinion.

[HezLucky]

FOS: Blackberry

Mass role claim has got to be one of the stupidest ideas I have heard yet.

FOS: Roland

Stop trying to deflect the bandwagon!

[Assasin]

I still think Speedy is scum.

STD, I wanted a claim, lol.

Have we discussed the possibilities of a mass-role-claim? o.O

Jeep, I want your opinion.

One, a mass role claim is the stupedist idea.

And two, why do you want Jeep's opinion?

Unvote

If I was and

Vote blackberry

A mass roleclaim is exactly what the scum want us to do. Hopefully the town isn't stupid enough to oblige.

[BabyJesus]

Any other thoughts on the planned lynch of me tomorrow so the bookie can resurrect either Coron or LML? If one of them is a power role that we could use, it might be worth it...

[Thesp]

STD's explanation seems solid...but the way he's hesitating to claim kind of bugs me, it sounds sort of like scum fabricating a power role claim...or it could just be a town player with a powerful role not wanting to claim.

FOS: Pariah

for baiting.

Also, I'm not sure a mass-claim is an inherently bad idea, and I'm more suspicious of those shooting it down right away. I'm not at all convinced it would be beneficial, but if it were potentially game-breaking, scum would want to shoot it down awfully quick. I'm not sure what the harm in

suggesting discussing

the idea is. And HezLucky's last post only makes me more suspicious of him.

Also, BabyJesus, stop being unhelpful.

I'm still the happiest with my vote on dybeck.

[BabyJesus]

unvote, vote thesp

[rolandofthewhite]

BabyJesus needs his retribution.

[HezLucky]

Heh... BJ reminds me of IS.

[Save The Dragons]

Also, I'm not sure a mass-claim is an inherently bad idea, and I'm more suspicious of those shooting it down right away. I'm not at all convinced it would be beneficial, but if it were potentially game-breaking, scum would want to shoot it down awfully quick. I'm not sure what the harm in

suggesting discussing

the idea is. And HezLucky's last post only makes me more suspicious of him.

Exactly. Do you know how screwed the scum would be if they were first to pick roles to claim?

The only problem would be that the power roles would go pretty quick, but probably not quick enough to lynch conflicts. Actually, it might take more time to lynch correct conflicts than to go after power roles.

I'm confident with a mass claim we could get some scum, but I don't know if the benefits are worth it.

Unvote, Vote: HezLucky

for shooting down the idea when it was asked to be considered, not asked to be implimented. And I

still

think the uberpro thing is fishy.

[HezLucky]

Sure ya do.

Of course you're gonna vote for me, I want you lynched.

You haven't done anything to change my vote.

[EnterYourNameHere]

Vote dybeck, major FOS HezLucky and Assassin

.

The dybeck wagon seems the most just to me. I don't like the idea of a mass claim just yet, but anyone who shoots it down so quickly is suspicious in my eyes.

[Blackberry]

Thank you Thesp.

I didn't PURPOSE a mass role-claim, I asked if we could discuss it.

[Thoth]

It's certainly worth discussing the idea of a mass role claim. In one of Cadmium's previous games where all roles were known beforehand as well we had a mass claim somewhere halfway through the game. Main reason for that was that the cop came out announcing a number of innocent results (not who they were of course) after which we could pick off the mafia rather easily (although they did pretty well by confusing one townie enough to get a nolynch one day)

In that game all roles were revealed upon death though, so there it was a lot easier to do. In this game it's not so easy. If scum manages to claim a dead role we have a huge problem. And this is not so unlikely to happen. We have 6 scum and 3 other roles with a certain incentive make a false claim (Judas/Saulus + Vampire) together with 15 players that probably should claim their real role. Assuming no false mason claim will happen almost every role will be claimed double.

[HezLucky]

The problem is that we've already lost a few roles.

If those were major roles and one of the scum claims it, then we're pretty much giving them the game.

[Cadmium]

Vote count:

1 vikingfan (kristocker)
1 jeep (dybeck)
2 HezLucky (Fuldu, Save The Dragons)
4 dybeck (Thesp, Puzzle, rolandofthewhite, EnterYourNameHere)
1 SpeedyKQ (Blackberry)

7 Save The Dragons (SpeedyKQ, vikingfan, Thoth, PookyTheMagicalBear, jeep, Enigma91, HezLucky)

1 Thesp (BabyJesus)
1 Blackberry (Assasin)

not voting (4): Astronaut, big_kahunia, Mastermind of Sin, Pariah

12 to lynch

[Save The Dragons]

Of course you're gonna vote for me, I want you lynched.

Let's play a little game. Can you figure out why this accusation is ridiculous?

Give up? Here's a hint...

Jeep wants me lynched. Am I voting for him?
Speedy wants me lynched. Am I voting for him?
Blackberry wants a claim. Am I voting for him?
Vikingfan wants me lynched. Am I voting for him?
Thoth wants me lynched...

Who did I pick? Yes, you, the man with the blinders. No, not jeep, you, HezLucky. Why? Because you're scummy, and your scumminess overflows above the actions of others. That's why I normally vote people.

[HezLucky]

Of course you're gonna vote for me over all the others, you were with Jeep against me and didn't want to get off the bandwagon because you thought it would make you scummy to just follow along, hence you are still trying to get me lynched.

Second, there is too much information that can be mined from mafia. Tell me, what good is it if the doctors claim? Then the doctors are picked off, followed by the inspectors, and the town loses a lot. What if, by chance, the doctors claim a townie role and a mafia/werewolf claims the doctor role(s)? What are you gonna do then? Go the entire game iwthout lynching the mafia/werewolf?

Mass role claim this early? I think not. It's a stupid idea.

FOS: Anyone who believes otherwise

. WAYYYYY too early to mass claim. It's better if the mafia/werewolves make kills randomly at this point rather than telling them exactly who they should pick off. Similarly, the inspectors will probably get some more inspections in and that can do nothing but help the town.

[Puzzle]

@ STD :
1. I doubt people "wanted you lynched" you right off the bat, as you say, and I suspect that you realize it.
2. "HezLucky is scummy" : noted, now how about some more explanation, please ?

[kristocker]

That's a deliberate misinterpretation of what I said. I never said that your vote was OMGUS, or that your vote was motivated by spite in any sense.

I've always understood an OMGUS vote to be voting purely (or mostly) because one is angry, or spiteful, that they have been voted for by another - especially if they see no good reason for it.

Your vote didn't seem to be motivated by anger or spite, but you claimed to have deduced that, logically, a vote for you was a scummy thing to do.

The end result in terms of votes is the same - a vote each. However, it's more malicious than an OMGUS vote. Your claim that it was logically motivated, rather than spiteful, was intended to encourage others to follow your bandwagon. And that struck me as scummy.

Let me get this straight: an OMGUS vote is done out of anger or spite. A vote to encourage a bandwagon that is presumedly based on logic is malicious. With these definitions, we have many angry, spiteful, malicious people roaming the threads.

This is Day One. In order to lynch, there must be a "bandwagon" - if we use the term to mean many people voting for one. Asking others to join in your vote of someone you believe to be scummy is not per se a scum tell. It is the most practical way to lynch who you believe to be scum.

I think that StD's explanation is good enough to get him off my hook for now. I don't think he is the best lynch for today. I do think dybeck is.

Vote: dybeck.

I don't think a mass role claim today is a good idea.

[Enigma91]

Ok well STD's defense is good for now so

unvote: STD

Anyway a mass claim is probably not something to go with right now, but would be a good thing to try once we have whittled our numbers a little more. I also have to say that Hez's adamant refusal of the idea and his misrepresentation of blackberry's idea is rather scummy.

fos:hezlucky

Dybeck's contradictions make him appear to be struggling to not annoy anyone/stay unsuspicious, at least to me they do.

vote:dybeck

[vikingfan]

I'm going to

unvote STD

but I'm still going to

FOS STD

. The way he's acting makes me think he's either A) a power pro-town role, or B)scum trying to avoid making a claim. I'm not sure which so I'll leave it for now.

And I'll go with

Vote dybeck

for all the reasons already stated.

[vikingfan]

All right, here's an analysis of the mass claim idea after looking at the role list.

We have 4 absolutely key protown roles (both Angels and both Seer and Sorcererl). We have no doctors other than the Archangel and Sorcerer (and that's only if they choose not to resurrect. Thus, those 4 roles are particularly key to not being lost-they are our only way to tell, apart from day lynches, who is telling the truth and who should be saved/resurrected. There are other roles that can investigate (like the bookie), but the circumstances needed to produce it can be far-fetched.

Now, here's the key. To me, the day lynches should be used to produce the most information about as many people as possible-they are our only real way of knowing things (even the seer and Angel can be counterclaimed). Now, if there's multiple claims, it serves scum well to kill counterclaimers, ONLY if they think one of them is the Judas/Saulus/Vampire. Then later, somebody can resurrect them and everyone might think that they're clear since they weren't revealed as scum.

The real trick is if 2 scum claim a dead role (which singly is improbable, but is quite possible with at least 9 roles inclined to lie about their roles). This is especially true if they claim one of the 4 key power roles. We lynch one of the scum and everyone might assume that the other person was telling the truth. The key that could help us here, though, is that the other team of scum won't know that so they can go after him.

In any case, though, mass claim is almost bound to make us lose our 4 power roles. It'll get us some scum, but it will greatly benefit the scum who can claim successfully and make it a long way to the endgame.

Did I miss anything?

[HezLucky]

No, you didn't.

Thank you for using common sense.

[jeep]

I'm opposed to mass role claim.

I'm 99% sure that dybeck and StD are both scum. I wouldn't mind lynching either of them. I shouldn't help the scum, but if you are scum, and StD is not in your group, you should kill him.

Mass role claim has got to be one of the stupidest ideas I have heard yet.

Hmm. This makes me less sure of my previous thoughts on you. *sigh* Care to link me to other games you played in recently? Or do I need to go look things up sometime when I have more time?

A mass roleclaim is exactly what the scum want us to do. Hopefully the town isn't stupid enough to oblige.

Assassin, this quote brings you into serious question. Maybe even putting you up to near 3rd or 4th.

-JEEP