Mafia 39: Back to Gambits - Game over!

[Astronaut]

Mass role-claiming sounds like a bad idea to me, though I haven't really done the maths.

dybeck's not answering to my questions and other's accusations against him does not make him look good.

vote: dybeck

[BabyJesus]

unvote, vote dybeck

[Thesp]

Did I miss anything?

There is a possible scenario in which we specify that

no one

claims the doctor roles, we specifically state that they claim some other role (presumably townie), and demand that doctor claims are never made. It would keep the scum in the dark as much as the town as to whether or not the docs were dead, and leave it dicey as to whether or not it's "safe" to kill cops. In any case, I'm still not sure it's a good idea. (I like Thoth's discussion of the idea.) Also, it's more of a "now or never" proposition, as more people are killed at night, we're less able to identify badguys by counter-claims (more questions as to dead people and all that).

[vikingfan]

Did I miss anything?

There is a possible scenario in which we specify that

no one

claims the doctor roles, we specifically state that they claim some other role (presumably townie), and demand that doctor claims are never made. It would keep the scum in the dark as much as the town as to whether or not the docs were dead, and leave it dicey as to whether or not it's "safe" to kill cops. .

But doesn't that eliminate the whole idea of a mass claim? Plus, that just ups the number of double claims- and it makes it REALLY sticky to clear things out. After all, if the Sorcerer is pinned, does he really want to say "Hey, guys, I'm the Sorcerer." Or, alternatively, a scum could, when pressed, claim one of those doctor roles and sail by if no doctor with that role is alive to counter him (though the other scum group would go after him soon enough).

It just seems like a bad idea to me at this point in time.

[jeep]

Well, I'm happy with either lynch, so

Unvote: StD; Vote: dybeck

-JEEP

[Cadmium]

Vote count:

1 jeep (dybeck)
2 HezLucky (Fuldu, Save The Dragons)

10 dybeck (Thesp, Puzzle, rolandofthewhite, EnterYourNameHere, kristocker, Enigma91, vikingfan, Astronaut, BabyJesus, jeep)

1 SpeedyKQ (Blackberry)
4 Save The Dragons (SpeedyKQ, Thoth, PookyTheMagicalBear, HezLucky)
1 Blackberry (Assasin)

not voting (3): big_kahunia, Mastermind of Sin, Pariah

12 to lynch

[dybeck]

Wow sweet mother of christ.

I get tonsillitis and when I come back suddenly i'm two from lynch?

What did I do in that time?

In fact, what did I do in the first place again?

I just pointed out why I thought Jeep was scummy. I knew it was a dangerous thing to do, and I knew it was going to draw attention to me. Trust me, when I'm scum, those are the last two things I do.

How on earth am I the best choice for a lynch??

[Save The Dragons]

Second, there is too much information that can be mined from mafia. Tell me, what good is it if the doctors claim? Then the doctors are picked off, followed by the inspectors, and the town loses a lot. What if, by chance, the doctors claim a townie role and a mafia/werewolf claims the doctor role(s)? What are you gonna do then? Go the entire game iwthout lynching the mafia/werewolf?

Mass role claim this early? I think not. It's a stupid idea.

FOS: Anyone who believes otherwise

.

This is all well and good. And Blackberry just mentioned it. And that's why I'm voting for you now. And that's why I think you're scummy. Because NOBODY is advocating a mass claim. Nobody. Not I, not thesp, not blackberry. Who are you FOSing?

I'm really not sure what the dybeck wagon is founded on so I won't place my vote on it.

[HezLucky]

I'm talking about anyone who thinks I'm suspicious because I strongly dislike the idea of a mass claim. Duh...

[Astronaut]

This is my main reason for voting you, dybeck.

An oversight. vote: Jeep.

You will, eventually, realise that I'm right about this.

Do you know something or are you just cleverer than the rest of us?

[SpeedyKQ]

Time for dybeck to claim, I think, and then I will consider switching my vote.

With dybeck, I'm mostly bothered by this post:

I get the impression that whoever we lynch tonight, we're going to be able to tell a lot from voting patterns here.

which feels like scum laying the groudwork for a future lynch, and to a lesser extent I'm bothered by:

What's the deal with the StD bandwagon??

I don't think I get it.

which might be a feeble attempt to save a scum buddy.

[dybeck]

Astronaut: I'm not saying I'm cleverer than the rest of you, but I am convinced Jeep's scum. I guess i just wanted to get an 'I told you so' in now, since it looks unlikely anyone's gonna pay any attention to me.

SpeedyKQ: I was just observing that people at the time were very clear on which side of the bandwagon they were on, and that there was potentially a lot of information that could help us out later, once we've established who's guilty and who's not.

As for my comment about the StD bandwagon - I stand by it completely. There was absolutely nothing to convict him on, yet you nearly lynched him. The speed with which the lynch built was like nothing I've ever seen before! You guys went crazy for a minute there! Reread it and you'll see what I mean.

[SpeedyKQ]

So are you willing to claim?

[jeep]

I've re-read it and it doesn't seem crazy to me. What seems crazy is that we have two scum and we can't decide which to lynch. It doesn't matter. The other is going to get killed by the opposing family.

-JEEP

[SpeedyKQ]

Why so sure they're in different families, jeep? Know something we don't?

[Fuldu]

Well if dybeck isn't inclined to claim, I think we should just finish the lynch off. The defense he's raising hasn't been particularly strong, although neither was STD's and everyone backed away from that pretty readily.

I think jeep's certainty that the opposing family will take care of the other accusation is a bit surprising. jeep may believe that STD is scum, but scum aren't necessarily going to agree with him. And even if they do, it isn't clear why they'd target him when (if he survives the night) he's going to be strongly targeted for lynch tomorrow. I'd be more inclined to rely on the vigilante to decide whether to follow jeep's lead than to expect scum to do the same.

unvote: HezLucky; vote: dybeck

[Fuldu]

Why so sure they're in different families, jeep? Know something we don't?

STD and dybeck don't have to be in opposing families for his argument to work (although I've suggested other reasons why I don't think it does). He's just talking about whichever scum family STD isn't in.

[SpeedyKQ]

Why so sure they're in different families, jeep? Know something we don't?

Never mind. This made no sense. Even if they are in the same family (and I'm not so ironclad sure they're both scum) the opposing family could target them. Ignore me.

[vikingfan]

It doesn't matter. The other is going to get killed by the opposing family.

-JEEP

Why would they? It makes better sense for the scum family to pick someone else to kill since STD (assuming dybeck is lynched) will be heavily targeted for a lynch tomorrow.

Besides, assuming we haven't lost that role, the vig can always go after STD tonight.

[jeep]

OK, Fuldu moves to position 3 with his last post. You're in the same family as StD, eh?

Good to know.

Speedy, ok, I'll ignore you. It appears you now understand my point.

-JEEP

[Fuldu]

I'm sorry, jeep, but if you're going to accuse me of being scum over it, I'm going to have to press the argument. Assume STD is Mafia, without loss of generality. Why would the Werewolves kill him tonight when he's currently the prime candidate for lynch tomorrow? If he isn't available as a lynch target tomorrow, then there's an increased likelihood that one of the Werewolves will end up getting lynched. Why wouldn't it be preferable for them to make a night-kill of their choosing and rally for an STD lynch tomorrow rather than to night-kill STD and risk ending up with a Werewolf lynch tomorrow? I would assume, based on the post times and the fact that you completely ignored it, vikingfan's post went up while you were typing yours, but he's making essentially the same point as I am.

And your sudden conclusion that I'm therefore in the same scum family as STD is surprising. The only thing a member of STD's group has to gain by pointing out that it doesn't make sense for opposing scum to kill him and recommending a vig kill instead is to hope that the vig is one of the two deceased, which isn't especially good odds. As town, I genuinely believe that it doesn't make sense for opposing scum to kill STD and don't expect them, therefore, to do so. I think there's a good chance you're right about STD and dybeck, so I think it would be to town's benefit to have the vig go after whichever of them (presumably STD) we don't lynch.

[Puzzle]

@Jeep : sorry if it sounds weird, it's not an attack but how would you react to being lynched ? Upset or "well, it happens" ?

[jeep]

Generally, it's one of those things that just happens. But in this game, I'd be some kind of upset.

-JEEP

[vikingfan]

Generally, it's one of those things that just happens. But in this game, I'd be some kind of upset.

-JEEP

Why 'in this game'?

[Save The Dragons]

I'm talking about anyone who thinks I'm suspicious because I strongly dislike the idea of a mass claim. Duh...

Sorry, I misread your post. But nobody thinks that either.

Unvote

hopeless cause. I'm not going to join the dybeck wagon, I think it's just as unfounded as mine.

If I get nightkilled by a pro-town force tonight, I would also be some kind of upset.