Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[Tarballs]

3rd Vote Count of Day 3

6 - TheLonging

(RichardGHP, CryMeARiver, DedicatedScribe, ready2rock, sorasgoof, CCARaven4)

2 - pman5595

(TheLonging, Bogre)

1 - Amished

(Konowa)

4 - Not voting

(DizzyIzzyB13, Amished, pman5595, curiouskarmadog)


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for this day is February 9th, 2010.

[Amished]

Mod: I'm having intermittent access. It should be resolved soon, sorry for the lack of activity

[pman5595]

Mod- I MIGHT be v/la until sunday afternoon, I don't know what the internet situation where I am going is yet.

[Konowa]

@r2r - I remember that question now. I ignored it when you asked it, to be frank. You asked "Without a wifom argument, how are raven and I scumbuddies when I am listing him as scum?" (paraphrased off the top of my memory I do not feel like looking it up right now)

1) That question is totally asinine. You can not ask a wifom question and then demand a non-wifom answer.
2) I do not look too much into "connections" on D1 as I find that it leaves me with too many false trails. I look for the people who are the scummiest and try to lynch them.
3) At the moment I do not think you are scum together. I think that Raven is likely mafiascum and you are likely SKscum.
4) Summarize your case against ckd. Do you believe him to be mafia or SK?

I know I said I would, but I want to see where the above goes before I hammer TheLonging. I also want to hear more out of Bogre and Amished before a hammer drops.

I will be back on Monday people. We are celebrating my daughter's second birthday tomorrow so I doubt I will be back before then.

[Amished]

@Konowa: Yes, I'm trying to give you an out, so to speak. Either you can or you can't predict scum behavior. (I lean that you can't *ever* predict it, you can only see it after they did it)

If "you" can predict it, use statistics to do so rather than conjecture that the other scum wasn't on Diddin. I challenge you to come to any argument that would make it more likely that scum would be off of Diddin rather than on him at the time.

If you can't predict it, then you tying people together for predicting where scum would be; the whole point is moot and useless.

@Raven: I'm more certain of your scumminess after 1283 than ever before, for a couple reasons: 1) town reads without a lot of reason behind them and 2) that you go so far as to state that you think that Konowa is a *VANILLA* townie. 3) Especially the end part, it looks like you're blatantly trying to buddy up to people you find town (Konowa especially) by going along with his reasoning completely and just voting due to it.

#2 especially reads that either you're trying to talk to a buddy in case you get lynched; or more likely that you're the SK and you're trying to signal who you're going after.

Vote: CCARaven4

@r2r: I think that the term you're looking for in regards to ckd is confirmation bias. As I view that to be more of a town tell; I'd appreciate it if you'd move on with your attacks of somebody that I view to be town, especially since I know ckd suffers from that *as town* (LOST mafia + VP Baltar)

Finally, some thoughts:

As the mafia group isn't named and we don't have any evidence to support a 2nd mafia group being out there, I think that going after the SK is a better idea (eliminating one anti-town kill) whereas if we go after mafia, they're almost certainly to have more than 3 people (which if we lynched them they'd still have a kill tonight). Giving them more time isn't especially concerting to me as they will also have more time to form connections and it's something that we can more easily focus on especially as they won't have a target for their scumhunting.

Also, I have a town read on TheLonging; so I'd rather not see him lynched today.

As of the neighbor issue: a 4 person *all-town* neighbor-group seems highly overpowered; especially as we've had a semi-watcher, a tracker and a bodyguard all revealed; with a vig out there as well.

With my town read of ckd; and my skepticism of Konowa's pushing of chain lynches (if this one is town, the other has to be scum pairings); my money is that he's the scum neighbor and is my 2nd top suspect.

[ready2rock]

@Amished: Is that why he has "This space for rant" under his name?

Also, there is one vote for me to state my case and one vote for me to drop it, so I'll compromise and wait until tomorrow (day 4 tomorrow). Right now, I believe TheLonging is the best lynch.

[Tarballs]

Prodding DizzyIzzyB13, CryMeARiver, sorasgoof and DedicatedScribe.

[curiouskarmadog]

need to catch up.

Kon, this whole BW on Longing right now was started by me based on the catch you mentioned in our neighborhood thread....I know Longing is at -1 right now but I am curious given your point why you didnt jump on the wagon. I thought your point was a very good one. Also, why did take me having to threaten that I would come forward BEFORE the day ended, for you to claim....

I have felt you are town, but these two things have been bothering me. if this has been addressed i the last 2 pages, sorry for the repeat question...need to read...

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Prodding DizzyIzzyB13, CryMeARiver, sorasgoof and DedicatedScribe.

Sorry, I'm kinda sick at the moment, so I'm kinda not all there at the moment. Hopefully, I'll be alright soon, but bear with me if I'm a bit sporadic in posting for a few days.

[CryMeARiver]

prod received...I'm alive, it was just the week and I had a lot on my plate

[Amished]

@ckd: What was Konowa's point on TL that "should've gotten him {Kon} a reason to vote for TL right away today"?

[curiouskarmadog]

I just checked the page once more to see if I missed anything...the 4th neighbor mentioned this post after my last post at night....

Is one of his abilities to scan? If so, and you want him to take the risk, have him scan me if he chooses to.

this was a good catch....Longing, why did you feel it important to direct a possible investigation? With so many power roles floating about, there is probably a mafia GF around. This is a suspicious post.

looking forward to you post.

[Amished]

Ahh, gotcha.

[sorasgoof]

Hey guys, I'm still here. It's just that I've made my case and voted, and nothing else has really happened, so I haven't had much to say.

Also, the deadlines are WAY too long. Just sayin'.

[RichardGHP]

Hurry up and hammer already...

TL is scum. I'd put money on it.

Also, I have a town read on TheLonging; so I'd rather not see him lynched today.

Mind explaining why you think TL is town? His actions and the half-PBPA on him would suggest otherwise.

@sora regarding ckd 'tunnelling' you:

I'm willing to bet that aggressively tunnelling is his meta, though he still tunnelled on me for a bit AFTER I was confirmed as town... either a scumslip or a misunderstanding.

I honestly couldn't care less though, I am pretty certain that TL is scum so will somebody just hammer?

Lastly, something to note, extreme confidence in town alignment is either a town tell or a godfather tell. TL's claim of VT (which, if he is GF, he would scan to a cop anyway) coupled with his scum-like actions before and after the claim solify him as scum. He managed to successfully pull out a win as scum before without a single vote in the whole game IIRC, so he is no noob. There is only one possible outcome of his lynch, and that is that he flips scum.

If you're scum, your play is just atrocious. If you're town, it's even more atrocious.

This can be validly applied to TL.

More later.

For emphasis: TL. DIE. NOW.

[Amished]

@Richard: TheLonging's answer to my question feels genuine and I believe he's townie because of that.

[RichardGHP]

@Richard: TheLonging's answer to my question feels genuine and I believe he's townie because of that.

So his answer to one question makes you believe that he is town? I find that hard to believe, considering all of the other things he has done.

[Amished]

It's a good question when you know what to look for.

Another thing that I think he's getting a lot of flak over is the VT claim thing: I don't get a very ... "hard working", so to speak, vibe from TL. In that regard, I believe he's copy-pasted from the quote rather than really bother and type that all out from a scum perspective. I normally don't bother defending another player too heavily for a multitude of reasons; but I'm pretty confident (85% - 90%) that Longing is town.

If you want to get into this with me, I have all night. Point out what he's done that you feel is scummy and I bet there's a town explanation there as well.

Hell, in a game I finished a while ago; I defended another player (scum) from what I thought were weak attacks and ended up preventing his lynch (we ended up getting a game-draw due to list-mod error but town would've won that game pretty easily). That game is a large part of why I tend to not defend another player, but in this case I'll make an exception if you want to debate this with me.

[TheLonging]

If you're scum, your play is just atrocious. If you're town, it's even more atrocious.

This can be validly applied to TL..

I haven't jumped on every bandwagon, or voted for people for no reason, but I'm not stopping you from thinking my play is extremely horrible.

[Amished]

Actually, now that I've looked at your {Richard's} case on TheLonging, I really hope nobody was convinced by it.

From ISO 148, your points against TL:

1) Bad feeling about the claim.
2) Structure of a post screams scum/insincere wording
3) (Backtracking about something when TL said that he honestly missed something. I'm not sure on the point here as MS is being really slow for me)
4) No point at all
5) Extended OMGUS (IMO). I read the post that you quoted as him calling you tenative, which can be a scumtell. (Hint: Look at your "VT could be from VT or Scum" point. It's not a scumtell to claim VT)
6) Feels that people don't think he's as scummy after looking at him closely.

----------
Some small bit about confirmation bias (cause you can never be wrong, right?) /rollseyes
----------

7) More OMGUS reasons (you {TL} think I'm {Richard} suspicious, and I {Richard} think you're suspicious for suspecting me {Richard}). I want you to explain why you feel that people watching out for somebody they got a negative feel for is a scumtell; that's all the feeling I get from TL on his suspicion of you {Richard}

8) BS about calling TL paranoid when you openly admit to it yourself.

9) Being aggressive and pursuing a case that has a long history of slight suspicion behind it is now a scumtell too.

And now I'm sick of reading your crap logic. If you basically weren't 100% clear I'd vote for you for pushing something so ridiculous.

[RichardGHP]

And now I'm sick of reading your crap logic.

You know what? I don't give a fuck. At least I'm trying to scumhunt, wheras you are just trying to prove my logic wrong whilst defending someone incredibly scum-like who is obviously not a noob.

If you don't like my logic, replace out, because I already have ckd to deal with. I don't want a THIRD player in this game who is aggressive beyond all reason.

If you basically weren't 100% clear I'd vote for you for pushing something so ridiculous.

The fact is, I am. Deal with it.

In fact, since unvotes aren't required, and your eagerness to defend someone who is pretty much obvscum while simultaneously attacking a confirmed townie,

vote: Amished

. Call it an OMGUS all you like, I really couldn't care less. I am calling a TL/Amished scumteam.

[Amished]

You're just angry cause I called you out on being wrong. You don't (or can't) defend your position cause you know I'm right about your whole case. I sure as hell ain't gonna replace out cause there's somebody I disagree with over a read.

I'm trying to prove your logic wrong because I don't agree with any of it that I saw. If you can't see past your own nose, why don't you replace out so that the town has somebody that will actually help towards looking at all sides of the argument.

Also, let's analyze your position against me:

First, I'm attacking you (false, I'm calling your arguments bunk, I specifically stated that I basically know you're not scum so I'm not wasting my time scumhunting on you).

Second point: I'm defending another player (false, I have a town read on somebody, not calling everything he does as pro-town and bringing examples into it; and I'm calling a large amount of the arguments put forth against him *by one player* bunk).

Finally, I do like that you're taking away from a wagon on "obvscum" in your opinion; and not allowing somebody to hammer said person as that would be beneficial if he were indeed "obvscum", correct?

[TheLonging]

Richard is trying hard to push a wagon on me (bad k-on trumpet player). If Konowa isn't scum neighbor, then scum team might be Richard and pman/DedicatedScribe

[TheLonging]

I think pman/dedicatedscribe is a more likely scumteam though. as for scum neibhor... maybe thereisn't one?

[RichardGHP]

You're just angry cause I called you out on being wrong. You don't (or can't) defend your position cause you know I'm right about your whole case. I sure as hell ain't gonna replace out cause there's somebody I disagree with over a read.

Resorting to petty insults, are we? Not liking this at all. I'm not dismissing your points because I can't make valid arguments against them, but because your points don't really make a lot of sense tbqh.

I'm trying to prove your logic wrong because I don't agree with any of it that I saw. If you can't see past your own nose, why don't you replace out so that the town has somebody that will actually help towards looking at all sides of the argument.

If you don't agree with it, that's your own decision, but you don't need to desperately try and prove me wrong because of it.

Also, let's analyze your position against me:

*sigh*

Ok then, please excuse me if I fall asleep.

First, I'm attacking you (false, I'm calling your arguments bunk, I specifically stated that I basically know you're not scum so I'm not wasting my time scumhunting on you).

So why bring it up in the first place? If you know that I'm confirmed town, you don't need to attemp to invalidate my arguments. Unless you are scum.

Second point: I'm defending another player (false, I have a town read on somebody, not calling everything he does as pro-town and bringing examples into it; and I'm calling a large amount of the arguments put forth against him *by one player* bunk).

Calling a town-read on someone AFTER they have already been deemed scum by many falls under 'defending'.

Finally, I do like that you're taking away from a wagon on "obvscum" in your opinion; and not allowing somebody to hammer said person as that would be beneficial if he were indeed "obvscum", correct?

But my vote for TL still counts, since unvotes aren't required. AFAIK, if nobody unvotes him then the next vote for TL is the hammer.

If Konowa isn't scum neighbor, then scum team might be Richard and pman/DedicatedScribe

Be right back after I'm done ROFLing. Out of those two, I am more inclined to believe that DS is mafiascum, but where do you get the idea that I could be on a scumteam?

Preview Edit: Never mind.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a scum neighbour. IIRC they're quite common in games with neighbours, and the term itself implies that there is at least one scum mason, since 'masons' are generally always pro-town. I believe neighbour is the term given to a mason when he/she is among those of varying alignments.