Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[SerialClergyman]

In game related terms -

If your first vote was a good vote, what was your second one? A bad vote? You still haven't answered why you decided to decided to wax lyrical about my case on charlatan and vote him when you were certain he was town - even if you thought his lynch was inevitable.

I actually tried to find it and couldn't, and thought I was going totally insane, but then I went to the end of Day 1 and I realise you made it under a different account. Why did you post that under your 'Rampage' account and not under your 'Albert B. Rampage' account?

The post is here

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ok...well that was gay.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I NEVER said I was certain he was town. I said there was no good reason for him being scummy. I voted him because 1) it was obvious he wasn't a mason 2) he was out to get me 3) he wasn't being logical 4) to save time since he would've been lynched anyway and no one was advancing discussion except saying that charlatan was scum.

[SerialClergyman]

And yet you spent the start of the day crowing about how right you were about him being town while you were on his wagon. Same with PCE - you were 85% sure (that's a quote) that he was scum yesterday and have not touched him today without giving a reason except something vague about 'not being able to afford to lose him'.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I

was

right. You voted him because you allegedly thought he was scum. I voted him for different reasons, but I always said that you were wrong for thinking he is scum. Die Scum die SC.

Can't really afford to lose a townie just because he's lurking.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

wrong for the reasons you thought he was scum*

What I mean is that he COULD have been scum, but he hadn't done anything that he wouldn't have done as town at that time.

[Zorblag]

I will have time tomorrow to get to this game that I have not had this past week. Glancing briefly at what's happening, my vote is still where I want it to be though. When I had a chance to glance briefly at what people were saying it looked like VP Baltar was raising many of the points of concern for me about xRECKONERx (which should be about the same points that I brought up yesterday.) The voting pattern day one just didn't match with his stated suspicions how it should for town. I'll need to take a closer look at what has happened since and I apologize for not being here to play.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[xRECKONERx]

Hey guys - snow/ice is causing the power to flicker off and on. I'll be back around to catch up on whatever within the next few days.

[Head_Honcho]

Votecount:

hitogoroshi(1): Ojanen
xRECKONERx(3): Debonair Danny DiPietro, Zorblag, Vi
Vi(1): Sando
Debonair Danny DiPietro(1): xRECKONERx
Albert B. Rampage(1): SerialClergyman
Serial Clergyman(1): Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting(2): VP Baltar, hitogoroshi
With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[VP Baltar]

I started the wagon on Rec today that's got him up to L-1, no credit for that? I mean I could've made loud noises and repeated things from yesterday and called it a case, but I think it's fairly obvious that the facts speak for themselves considering how the wagon has come together.

lol, you mean you want credit for this:

Vote: xRECKONERx

Thought it was a good lynch yesterday, given flips still looks like a good lynch today. I do like Vi's arguments about Sando and the tone of Sando's quotes just reads as off to me and that's probably my second choice right now.

That seems horribly vague and even when I looked back at why you thought it was a good lynch yesterday, you appeared to be piggybacking off of Amished. I don't think anyone was actually influenced by

you

to vote Reckoner so much as the wagon was there for the taking and others have been doing actual work on it.

The main point I was making was that you said early in the day that once you found something scummy you were going to "run with it". I'm saying that there is a complete and utter lack of this running taking place. You're saying that your excuse for not pursue your case against Reckoner harder is that it's self-evident...well, I think we both know that there is actually very little in this game that's self-evident or not worth further questioning about. Being laissez faire about everything isn't going to fly with me past Day 1 and I wouldn't feel bad about running you up over it.

This is the third game I'm playing with Reck and I can't make heads or tails of his play. Honestly, it's frustrating me to no end and I'm wondering whether it's worth chickening out on the play and taking a bit more time on this.

Well, this is Reckoner's MO largely, but what sticks out to me is how inconsistent he seems to be internally with his own positions. While I have seen him wagon hop plenty as town, I can usually at least follow his thought process for his actions on a general level (ie, WHYOHWHY?), but I'm having a harder time doing that this game.

And SC asks where ABR is, which reminds me:

Hey, ABR, when did you start to find Reckoner scummy? How confident are you that he's scum?

go ahead and answer those.

Reck, there has been a fair amount of tension surrounding me, but a lack of votes. I'm not sure what to make of it really. I don't really see how not hammering makes me a townie though...

Hyper-sensitivity to non-existant pressure alert!

VP Baltar, is there nothing to respond to?

You miss me? I wasn't away

that

long.

I've asked Albert...without response.

Seems like it's starting to become a common occurance.

VP made a case and joined directly after I suggested it

Not quite true. I have not voted Reckoner yet due to the speed that his wagon grew (though had that not happened I probably would have). Also, he did pique my interest on day one. As far as I can tell, however, I was the only person who presented a full case on him today. Oj did make a few points though.

Albert's blatant OMGUS of SC after he's been calling for a hammer on Reckoner for the last few pages doesn't make any sense to me. I have spent some time thinking about ABR and his repeated calls for the hammer after he made such a show about how careful the town has to be today. I basically chalked it up as, if he were town, he must be REALLY confident that Reckoner is scum. No problems there necessarily, but to now switch to SC for idiotic reasoning makes me think that he wasn't sure about Reckoner at all, thus making his calling for the hammer and the need to be careful even more ridiculous.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry this was delayed a bit, guys. But without further ado:

Iso Spectacular, Part IV

Vi

Vi's first posts worried me a bit until I looked at the timestamps – they're mostly superficial points but they are also very close together and really all you can expect from the opening days.

This is all pretty much how I expect Vi to ask. Her ISO 40 is a nice catch on xRx that I hadn't noticed before.

But aside from that, D1 is just...bland. Most of the time, her vote is on DDD, and not because of any certainty he's scum, but because he's not giving a read. Now, there's nothing wrong with this, and I probably would have been pressuring DDD a fair bit day one as well. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't think I could learn a whole lot from poking around her D1 play if it came down to that on a later day.

Still, I'm not really of the mindset that there is anything malicious behind this, because quite honestly going for DDD was kind of the winning move there – I just wish circumstance hadn't maneuvered itself in such a way that Vi taking up that responsibility suddenly muted communications from that slot.

I'm liking her D2 content a lot, lot more. In particular, I like everything about her vote on Sando except for the fact that it's not anymore.

VP Baltar

Oh that's right, the game started with ABR and VP's fight-thing. I like that part of the game a lot more when it was buried deep in the vaults of my memory so I'm just gonna keep on pretending that never happened.

VP is the reason that I was late a day. When you have a player with that many posts I feel like the retarded child for saying I can't get a solid read on him, but I can't get a solid read on him. I will say that when you ISO him you can see that he's tunneling on charlatan D1 a lot more than you'd think just casually reading, but that makes just as much sense with a townie that think they've found scum (even more sense? I'd imagine scumbags would want to keep their options open.)

The one nice about waiting is, his brand-spanking-new vote on Albert is making me like him much more. His reasoning is pretty solid and I think I can dig an Albert wagon.

Zorblag

I really enjoy his posting style. It's sometimes nice to have a townie who explains their whole line of thought in one package instead of making you pull it out of them via questioning.

However, this style does come at the cost of connections. Zorblag seems to be playing the part of disinterested observer at some points, which is great for keeping your reputation squeaky clean but it makes it a lot hard for the town to fit you in their interpretations. Your V/LA doesn't help things either (not trying to imply it was game-related lurking in any way, other that it came at an unfortunate time for town).

Still, the fact that you threaded in your lynch lists a couple of times (for example, 531) without being prompted is a point in your favor.

Zorblag, if you could try to just mention the other players a bit more, that'd be pretty cool, because right now I just get the worry that we could have two days worth of flips and it'd wouldn't tell us anything about you. Normally I'd be a lot more adamant about sniping a player that could become an endgame liability, but as I said, I really like your posting style and I supposed reduced readability is just a consequence of it (you obviously can't cover EVERY player with that level of scrutiny or no one would read that wall.) But please, meet me half way here.

For example – you have SC on your 'no interest in lynching' list, but I can't find really anything regarding SC coming from you. Why is SC on that list of yours? Knowing that will help me look at my SC read, and it will also tell me about you, particularly if SC is nk'd or lynched.

And with that the ISO spectacular draws to a close. Final thoughts:

• My strong town reads are: no one, I trust the lot of you about as far as I can throw you and I have notoriously poor upper body strength
  
• If I had been here from the start and had the accumulated political capital of a day of play this would probably be a vote for Sando, but I doubt I have any wagon pushing power right now so I should put my vote where it'll do some good.
  
• The last paragraph of 709 (which should be right above me unless I get ninja'd) is total truth and makes me like an ABR vote.
  
• I'll admit a bit of bias in that an ABR flip would tell me a whole lot about my two most ambiguous reads (VP and SC)
  
• If DDD or Sando wagons start up I'm totally with you guys on those
  
• I'm still cool with lynching Reck as well – I think it's just too early for a lynch and I really don't want a one-wagon day.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Albert B. Rampage]

This is going to be fun.

[VP Baltar]

This is going to be fun.

Maybe if you answered questions instead of being snarky, people wouldn't want to lynch you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

K. This is what I think:

1. I'm not answering shit.

2. Zorblag and DDD should comment on everyone in the game.

3. Everyone should explore alternative suspects to me.

[VP Baltar]

Or we should lynch. No problem.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You can't lynch me with 3 players. I'm a rockstar.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am sure about RECKONER. I can't lynch RECKONER if SC is going to be voting me. So I'm voting SC. Makes sense.

[VP Baltar]

I am sure about RECKONER. I can't lynch RECKONER if SC is going to be voting me. So I'm voting SC. Makes sense.

No, actually.


Also,

Hey, ABR, when did you start to find Reckoner scummy?

How confident are you that he's scum?

[hitogoroshi]

You can't lynch Reck if SC is voting you? Did I miss a "Day 2 - eleven to lynch" or something?

If you want to lynch reck you don't go about it by voting for apostates. :/

[preview edit - sniped by VP. nice!]

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB, you couldn't lynch me if Yosarian himself was on your scumteam. Try harder. Please, try harder.

I mean, maybe DDD will come over. Maybe Sando will. But let's be honest here, Vi is too smart to think I'm scum this far into the game. Zorblag will likely not follow you, and neither will Ojanen. I doubt even RECK would vote for me because that would prove that everything he said up until now was rubbish.

So what have you, really. Consider your options here. And am I really scum? Or just a dissident? Think carefully.

[VP Baltar]

VPB, you couldn't lynch me if Yosarian himself was on your scumteam. Try harder. Please, try harder.

I mean, maybe DDD will come over. Maybe Sando will. But let's be honest here, Vi is too smart to think I'm scum this far into the game. Zorblag will likely not follow you, and neither will Ojanen. I doubt even RECK would vote for me because that would prove that everything he said up until now was rubbish.

So what have you, really. Consider your options here. And am I really scum? Or just a dissident? Think carefully.

Well, given that your stances have shifted more than the sands of the Mojave for little to no apparent reason, I don't think it's a great leap in logic to see you as scum here.

Now, perhaps this pomp and swagger act works quite effectively in your newbie games, but it's quite tired, ineffective and dull on a whole if you ask me.

Also,

Hey, ABR, when did you start to find Reckoner scummy?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Give it up, chump. You have no credibility whatsoever. Your entire Day 1 play was to attack me as a bad catalyst for discussion that you stifled just as fast with your charlatan tunnelvision. Two days, two suspects. One dead, proved innocent.

I can be accused of contributing to a charlatan lynch, but that's still one hell of a stretch. I tried to save charlatan by lynching a lurker. I tried to change the subject. I tried to convince player's on the charlatan wagon individually. I tried so hard. Akon's heart is bleeding for me right now.

The fact of the matter was that SC, VPB, Vi, Zorblag and Amished, the very people that we put our trust in, the supposed leaders of this town if you will, failed to deliver us the scum. But they're not going to stop there. They will do it again. And again. Unabashed. Unashamed.

Because this is a game, they will be pardoned with a slap on the wrist. But because this is a game I want to win, I will not to listen to these poor fellows any longer, except Amished who was on the right track with RECK.

hitogoroshi, you can't read me; move on to somebody else.

DDD; anything??? The best you can do is ask me a question? Really? Content please.

Zorblag; guide your tight-knit clique into finding scum, and do it convincingly please.

[VP Baltar]

Hey, ABR, when did you start to find Reckoner scummy?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD; anything??? The best you can do is ask me a question? Really? Content please.

When you refuse to engage with me or VPB; it takes away any moral high ground or functional leverage you might have. I'd be inclined to engage with someone who would reciprocate and could be reasoned with; as you've not demonstrated an interest in any sort of actual dialogue and that you change your mind simply when you feel like changing your mind and not due to external factors.

19 21 81 18 23 321

And as far as I can tell SC simply got bored on the Rec wagon and so decided to do something else (as he tends to do) and voted ABR who then decided to OMGUS SC (which would seem to fit right in his wheelhouse) and together derailed the wagon that I really rather liked which is more than a little annoying.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have a reason not to answer that now.