Seemingly Normal Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-6

Toon fighter - 9

(Anon, Electric Badger, Flareonage, Kyle99, Jack, magnus_orion, Nul, farside22, RichardGHP)

magnus_orion - 4

(Kairyuu, danakillsu, Primate, DocPotter)

Farside22 - 1

(bv310)

Jack - 1

(Haschel Cedricson)

Not Voting - 5

(Kise, DeeJayCee, Seacore, Toon Fighter, TheLonging)

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

To Be Replaced:
TheLonging

---

@richard: how is my question WIFOM? I asked when do you see someone doing it in a game.
Like ever in any game.

[Kise]

Limited Access due to DC blizzard

[ElectricBadger]

Unvote: Toon Fighter

That reached L-2 very quickly. I need to catch up on the weekend posting and re-evaluate. I'm still not thrilled with Magnus and the flood of voters to the new wagon may be scum trying to take pressure off one of their own. In any case I'm nowhere near ready for this day to end, and with this many people a couple votes can happen very fast.

[Seacore]

Vote: Magnus

For the sole reason of getting rival bandwagons going.

I have yet to read this game, as I was waiting for it to actually start and then all of a sudden it was 5 pages in. So I'll work on that today.

[Jack]

I don't really like having a rival bandwagon just for the purpose of having a rival bandwagon. Don't buy the "flood of mafia to save their partner" theory either, that's just unlikely.

[Toon Fighter]

Vote: Magnus

For the sole reason of getting rival bandwagons going.

will do the same, as it seems the most likely thing to keep me alive for today:

vote: magnus

and yeah, I did vote prety much out of impulse, and, although I did expect somebody to notice that and attack me, I didn't think it would get so far in such short time.

I haven't been reading too much out of the game, too. I will reread it sometime during the week, as I have an exam tomorrow, and will have more time later.

[Jack]

I did vote prety much out of impulse, and, although I did expect somebody to notice that and attack me, I didn't think it would get so far in such short time.

Granted this is a new player thing to say, but I do see expecting to be attack as more mafia than town. Also, voting out of "impulse" but spending time to consider whether someone would be suspicious of him?

[ElectricBadger]

Don't buy the "flood of mafia to save their partner" theory either, that's just unlikely.

Assuming magnus-scum, you don't think any fellow scum would be shifting from obligatory bussing to a competing wagon?

[Jack]

Don't buy the "flood of mafia to save their partner" theory either, that's just unlikely.

Assuming magnus-scum, you don't think any fellow scum would be shifting from obligatory bussing to a competing wagon?

No such thing as obligatory bussing. And if they were it would be poor play to switch, having an early place on a scum wagon looks good on the resume.

I don't think the case on magnus is strong, and I think toon fighter is genuinely suspicious. As I think you do since you were voting him. So why assume that the votes on toon fighter are a "flood" of mafia trying to save magnus? Don't try and change it to "would

any

scum be on the toon wagon", that's impossible to say and very different from what you said.

[magnus_orion]

Hey, toon fighter, could you point me to a game you played here before? You mentioned being lynched day 1 before, and I'd like to see your play at that game to compare to this one.

@EB: I'm a proponent of the "fast moving wagons are normally more likely to be on town", but I think toon fighter has become a special case. (I'd imagine a scum-buddy of his would be quite eager to bus at this point)
Still, I think it would also be premature to lynch him anytime soon.

Dattebayo

[Jack]

It would be nice to have a read from a previous game.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I see there are several pages since I've checked in last. I'm sure some of my points will have been brought up already, but I'll say them anyway. Let's see what we have here.

Here is the exchange that led to the Toon Fighter wagon:

That was weird, Richard. You just voted for magnus for him being in a bandwagon, and after TheLonging said that you said you were V/LA. Coincidence? I think not.

FoS: RichardGHP

magnus_orion also feels scummy, but not much. I believe that post 40 by Primate had some reason behind it, based on his role, but that theory is unconfirmable right now.

Someone is just being TOO careful to express suspicions, arent we?

Vote: Toon Fighter.

@ Anon: OMGUS

vote: Anon

First off, I disagree with Anon's assessment of Toon Fighter's post. Toon Fighter isn't being careful not to express suspicions; he clearly states that he is suspicious of RichardGHP, with magnus as an implied weak number 2 suspect. Granted, I don't think Toon Fighter's case is particularly strong, but it's still a case.

That being said, Toon Fighter knew he had suspicions and SHOULD have pointed this out in his next post. Instead, he votes for Anon with the excuse of OMGUS. This doesn't make sense; a town player should have corrected Anon, not panicked and voted for Anon. This gets even weirder when Toon Fighter explains the situation with

He voted me for being too careful stating my suspicions. I show a suspicion on him and BAM! the whole village falls right on me.

As ElectricBadger points out in the next post, this is ridiculous. Toon Fighter didn't demonstrate any suspicion of Anon at all, just a vote. In fact, he later says that his vote was "random" in Post 141. Either he was lying in 141 or was making stuff up in Post 115. On another note, only three people voted for Toon Fighter prior to 115. Three is hardly "the whole village".

Before I forget, I'd like to point out that Flareonage answered a question intended for farside in Post 134, which is one of my personal favorite scumtells / pet peeves.

Re: Nul: Following the crowd is a horrible reason to put a 7th vote on somebody, especially when there are TWO wagons of roughly equal size. How did you choose which crowd to roll with?

I also hate Seacore's vote on magnus. There are already several reasons to consider voting for magnus, why specify that it's for "the sole reason of getting rival bandwagons going"? Furthermore, the wagon was ALREADY going; magnus had the second-highest number of votes and was the ONLY player except for Toon Fighter to have votes on him that weren't remnant votes from the Random Voting stage. What is your real reason for voting for magnus?

I'm aware that I haven't covered the magnus wagon very much; I need to go over that again. My initial thought is that Toon Fighter is much more likely to be scum. Right now I will

Unvote Jack, FoS: Toon Fighter

. This FoS will probably turn into a vote later this evening, but in the meantime I don't want him at L-2 until I've looked at magnus more in-depth.

Request prod on bv310

[Seacore]

My reason is as I've said. I wanted to put my vote on the second bandwagon while I read up on the game. I'm not listing the 'other' reasons for voting for Magnus because they aren't my reasons. Maybe they will be by the time I'm finished with the read, but they aren't now.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I wanted to put my vote on the second bandwagon while I read up on the game.

Why?

[bv310]

No need for a prod, I'm right here. Just catching up now, but you'll need to give me a bit. You guys love marathon posts.

[magnus_orion]

I wanted to put my vote on the second bandwagon while I read up on the game.

If there is any pro-town motivation in doing this, I missed it completely.

Dattebayo

[Toon Fighter]

somebody asked about the other game I was lynched D1 as townie:
viewtopic.php?t=13008&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 (newbie 885. the game hasn't ended yet)

[Kairyuu]

@all: I'm taking a few days off from pretty much everything due to some personal issues, which may or may not involve travelling without access to internet. If you want me replaced for it then go ahead. Mafia isn't really a top priority for me right now.

[farside22]

somebody asked about the other game I was lynched D1 as townie:
viewtopic.php?t=13008&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 (newbie 885. the game hasn't ended yet)

I just went through and read a bit on Toon Fighter in the game he mentions above and am now leaving my vote on Toon.

@magnus_orion: You have yet to explain why you believe someone who BW votes looks town to you especially after I showed a few games in which scum just slide in bw votes with no imput.

[magnus_orion]

@magnus_orion: You have yet to explain why you believe someone who BW votes looks town to you especially after I showed a few games in which scum just slide in bw votes with no imput.

I'm curious as to where I expressed this belief? While I don't think that merely the act of putting on votes to a band-wagon is a damning scum-tell, I certainly don't think its a town-tell either. I'd place it more as an action that leans toward being scummy, but is nearly a null tell. Its much scummier as a frequent offense.

@toon fighter: In other games you played, you valued your opinion over your survival. (although you still displayed a rather large lack of self-confidence) In this game the opposite is true. Why?

Dattebayo

[farside22]

Sorry magnus I think it's the way you word things I get impressions about players and such that those who vote without reason gets no notice from you.

Case in point:

Nul wrote:
I'll follow the crowd for now. Need to catch up with the game

A good reason not to vote for Toon.

Actually, that's just a bad reason to vote for Toon, not a good reason not to. It doesn't affect Toon's scumminess in the slightest.
Or at the very least, as far as I can tell, Nul's reasons for voting Toon don't affect whether or not Toon is actually scum.

I'm not sure how someone jumping on a BW with no imput doesn't affect anything. I've said already I seem many times scum slide under the radar and vote without imput and you seem to see this as nothing of interest from what I can tell.

[ElectricBadger]

No such thing as obligatory bussing.

I'll agree to disagree on that.

And if they were it would be poor play to switch

Attempting to shift lynches onto townies is pretty much the root of all scummy play, IMO.

I think toon fighter is genuinely suspicious. As I think you do since you were voting him.

He IS suspicious, and a wagon on him is logical - note I started the thing myself. However, the reaction to his 7 posts feels out of proportion to their content and the time of day. Especially as I don't see much scumhunting in the votes: it's not really an investigation so much as a rush towards an execution.

So why assume that the votes on toon fighter are a "flood" of mafia trying to save magnus?

The flood of votes implies mafia are present; players voting with more purpose than I see posted in the game. Lots of votes placed very quickly with a small quantity of evidence = bad wagon tell to me. I'll see how it develops once toon has a chance to respond a few times, but for now-

Vote: Magnus Orion

is a better wagon.

[danakillsu]

Vote: Magnus Orion is a better wagon.

Definitely! The Toon Fighter wagon is only a wagon. The Magnus_orion wagon actually has some reasoning behind it. The TF wagon had a really weird snowball effect that started with a post I don't find scummy.

[Jack]

What's the reasoning on the magnus wagon? If a flood of votes switches from toon to magnus is it evidence that they are mafia switching on to an innocent?

[danakillsu]

What's the reasoning on the magnus wagon? If a flood of votes switches from toon to magnus is it evidence that they are mafia switching on to an innocent?

That he keeps voting based on nothing and pretending he's pro-town. No. It's evidence that they want to lynch someone, whether they have a good reason or not. In some cases this could mean that they are mafia, but one bad wagon doesn't make everyone on it mafia.