Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[farside22]

Votecount 1.7 (As of my last post)

Sanhora -6- kmd4390, The Quintastic One, DTMaster, TheLonging, farside22, Pomegranate

Pomegranate -1- Slaxx
farside22 -1- Gayle

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf, Gheb, animorpherv1

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

animorpherv1's vote did not count because it was not bold.

Sanhora replaces mavsfan

---

@Gayle

Doesn't the fact that he only posted 2 times up to now bother you? I can't think of any town-alligned reason to play that way, especially since it has been reported that he visited mafiascum a couple of times.

Well, I don't automatically assume he is playing that way intentionally. There are any number of reasons for a person to lurk. He could have two posts because he is scum. He could have two posts because he has no idea where to start with this game. It is risky to make assumptions and lynch him, when we can wait for the replacement and form an opinion with a stronger foundation.

And of course nothing about the fact there is are votes on him and he is avoiding the game is looked upon as town why again? With comments about his post and lack there for.
He can and should be in here defending himself. Not lurking and avoiding a game. There is no town reason for that.

[farside22]

Just to make sure I get this right (WCS)

8 town, 2 Fire , 2 Ice (D1)

We mislynch 7 town, 2 Fire, 2 Ice (N1)

both kills go through 5 town, 2 Fire, 2 Ice (D2)

mislynch 3 town, 2 Fire, 2 Mafia (N2)

both kills go through 1 town, 2 fire, 2 Ice (D3) (guaranteed loss)

mislynch 0 town, 2 Fire, 2 Ice (N3) (DRAW)

So we have 1 or 2 mislynches in WCS, with no Mafia lynched.

That's worse case but you missed the doc. You missed the fact that mafia targeting each other can me 1 less death for any of those days.

[animorpherv1]

I did WCS on purpose.

[Gayle]

And of course nothing about the fact there is are votes on him and he is avoiding the game is looked upon as town why again? With comments about his post and lack there for.
He can and should be in here defending himself. Not lurking and avoiding a game. There is no town reason for that.

Of course?

What?

When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

Vote: Farside22

for pursuing this ridiculous lynch so strongly.

[animorpherv1]

I'm going to say Gyale is right. Why policy lynch when he's bound to get replaced? Also, why xofelf over mavsfan? They both have 2 posts. One is a guy, the other is a girl. They are both on the verge of getting replaced.

[animorpherv1]

EBWOP: After "They are both on the verge of getting replaced.", it should say "why policy lynch over a regular lynch? To look like your sucmhunting."

[CSL]

I have a replacement for mavsfan, and just when I get back, TQO requested a replacement because of some players in a finished game. Normally, I'll allow the replacement, but TQO hasn't been around a long time. You only get one bad experience from some players, then it goes back to normal.

Expect a votecount sometime soon while I ponder this. (And I'll announce the arrival of mavsfan's replacement in said votecount)

TQO will be notified that he can survive 1 day with Gayle. After that day, I'll replace him.

[farside22]

And of course nothing about the fact there is are votes on him and he is avoiding the game is looked upon as town why again? With comments about his post and lack there for.
He can and should be in here defending himself. Not lurking and avoiding a game. There is no town reason for that.

Of course?

What?

When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

Vote: Farside22

for pursuing this ridiculous lynch so strongly.

Lets click the problems with your comments so far
1) talks about it as a mislynch
2) says maybe the person has nothing to talk about and doesn't know how to get into the game
3) calls it a lurker lynch
4) keeps avoiding the fact that mansv was see on MS and did not post in this game even to defend himself and you want to point to me as scum?

@myko: Did you see elf post or come on the site at all or avoid this game?

The amount of defense that Gayle is giving masvan leads me to believe they could be scum together. So far she hasn't said one town reason to avoid posting in the game and does a vote calling me pushing the case when clearly I'm pushing her for answers of this defense.

[farside22]

I don't necessary think he would be a mislynch, rather that with his grand total of 2 posts we have very little to determine if he is scum or not.

It would basically just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town

. Apparently he is going to be "force replaced" (far stronger than a normal replacement), and so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't wait to see what his replacement has to say.

This seems to me gayle saying mansv is town stating odds but not expanding on why the odds of him being town are grater then scum.

[Gayle]

Well, I am pretty sure about Farside, guys. Those were some pretty scummy posts right there.

Lets click the problems with your comments so far
1) talks about it as a mislynch

This is extremely disingenuous. I've said that it is a good chance that it would be a mislynch, and that there is no reason to risk such a lynch. I never said "Mavsfan is town. Lynching him is a mislynch.".

2) says maybe the person has nothing to talk about and doesn't know how to get into the game

Again, disingenuous. My point was that no one knows why Mavsfan isn't here.

3) calls it a lurker lynch

When your only reason for lynching someone is because they are lurking then, yes, it is a lurker lynch.

4) keeps avoiding the fact that mansv was see on MS and did not post in this game even to defend himself and you want to point to me as scum?

I point to you as scum because I cannot verify he actually did as you say and even if he

was

online, you have no idea why or what kind of reason he might have for not posting. Your reason for lynching him is pure speculation. Yet you push to lynch him rather than waiting for his replacement.

The amount of defense that Gayle is giving masvan leads me to believe they could be scum together.

Of course, I must be scum because I don't want town to lynch a person who not only is about to be replaced, but also doesn't have a single good reason for being lynched.

So far she hasn't said one town reason to avoid posting in the game and does a vote calling me pushing the case when clearly I'm pushing her for answers of this defense.

I don't have to list a town reason for lurking. He could be lurking for

any

reason. You prove that Mavsfan doesn't have a good reason not to be here. I'm not defending Mavsfan, I'm trying to tell town why it is a bad idea to lynch a person for lurking right now.

This seems to me gayle saying mansv is town stating odds but not expanding on why the odds of him being town are grater then scum.

There are 12 players. 4 are scum, 8 are town. That is roughly a 66% chance that any given player is town, and a 33% chance that any given player is to scum. So yes, there is a greater chance that Mavsfan is town. It is stupid to gamble on his lynch when our odds of lynching town are 2/3.

Also, you keep implying that I am calling Mavsfan town. I am not, and never have. Your insistence that I have is disingenuous to the point of being scummy. Disingenuous. I plan to continue overusing that word.


In every time. In every place.

The deeds of men are the same

Farside is scum. No exceptions. All aboard the bandwagon, guys.

[Sanhora]

I haz arrived ^.^ Who has prepared himself/herself for this?

[Gayle]

Hi! We prepared for your arrival by putting you at L-1. Is this satisfactory, yes/no?

[Sanhora]

No, because it seems the wagon formed due to him stating he had no reads, not posting any content and apparently he has been online, but not posting.
I have done a quick read and am now putting down my thoughts and have found players who actually were scummy. The only thing that can be put down as scummy from mavs is the last argument I mentioned. And even then, I disagree.

But the real scummy players will be revealed after I'm done.

[farside22]

How many times you calling someone with 2 post that just got replaced town gayle?

I even posted your quote where you said most likely town.
So you know this person's alignment and thoughts and feelings based on what again?

[farside22]

One last time gayle. What player do you know that is town that purposely avoids a game where they are the main target of a lynch?

[Sanhora]

@TQO
-The 'I am a Newbie'-statement in posts 46 and 52.
-Post 106 is very scummy. Here, he votes Xofelf for pressure. I'd like to hear why Xofelf. Other than that, do you think it's justified from you to vote somebody for pressure, while you were posting set-up discussion at best before this vote?
-In post 116, you state that you think Ani is the scummiest player. But in post 144, you state that there is no argument that makes one of Ani, mavs and xofelf scummier over the others (Post 133 even shows you wanting to hear from Mavs and Ani). So what happened to your opinion of Ani inbetween these two posts?
-Back to post 144. Do you agree with this 'lynch all lurkers' plan you mentioned in this post or not?
-Gotta love post 151 when combined with post 133. You first want to hear mavs response to the accusations against him, but then can't see where mavs is more scummy than Ani and Xofelf.


@Farside
-Why did you vote KMD over SK in post 48?
-What did you mean with '@Myko' in post 182?


@SK and Gayle
-Post 64 shows a very bad vote as many, many, many players were talking about set-up speculation.
-Post 95 makes this worse as he unvotes Farside, but doesn't persue anybody else who was talking about the set-up.


@Xofelf
-Why did you state that set-up speculation is bad, especially when the mod is CSL, while this is an open game?


@DTM
-In post 68, it seems you were suspicious of SK. If so, why did you keep your random vote?


@TheLonging
-Can you elaborate more on your thoughts of Random Voting after the RVS?
-What reads did you have at the time of post 120? Because I haven't found anything from you at all.


@Gheb
-Is pointing out who you think is town scummy or not and why?


@Pomegranate
-Why no vote, while stating you have scum read(s) in post 78?
-Other than the useless questions in post 108 (Which is just an attempt to look town to me), this post is scummy for a different reason. Why? It's because Slaxx later gets voted by her with Slaxx his random vote as one of her reasons, but this didn't get pointed out in this post, which is her first post after said random vote. Wanna explain why?
-Please respond to post 119.
-Got a bad taste in my mouth due to post 139. You really are accusing somebody of a Random Vote, while it was you would did the RQS? Not only that, the questions asked couldn't be used to determine any allignment at all.


@Slaxx
-First a question regarding post 128: Do you mind suspicion on you or not and why?
Now, further with post 128. Pointing fingers (Game speculation bit and the part at Pome) and attacking one player, while others did the same (See Farside's bit) are things that caught my attention as well.


@Ani
-About post 154, is your vote justified in your opinion, while you didn't do any scumhunting at all before this post?
Also, why Farside, while others were discussing about set-up much more when looking at their amount of posts and how many of their posts are about the set-up?



Farside, Slaxx (Gut) and DTM are town.
Neutral on KMD, Xofelf, Gheb and Gayle.
Scum are Ani, TheLonging, TQO and Pome.

Preference for today's lynch is either

Vote TQO

or Pome.

[animorpherv1]

vote: farside

About post 154, is your vote justified in your opinion, while you didn't do any scumhunting at all before this post?

I Iso'ed all the players (essentially looking through the thread again)

Also, why Farside, while others were discussing about set-up much more when looking at their amount of posts and how many of their posts are about the set-up?

Becxause I feel farrside would be able to get away with it more, by being a better scumhunter, and the open queue mod, so she knows what she's doing, right?

[Gayle]

How many times you calling someone with 2 post that just got replaced town gayle?

How many times are you going to lie that I claimed such a thing?

I even posted your quote where you said most likely town. So you know this person's alignment and thoughts and feelings based on what again?

Here you are twisting my words again. My entire point was that

nobody

knows Mavsfan's "alignment and thoughts and feelings". There is absolutely nothing to go on. Lynching Mavsfan would therefore be a gamble. In a gamble, there is a much greater chance that town would be lynched than scum (66% chance as opposed to 33% of lynching scum). It would not be a very smart gamble to take, which is why I was arguing against it.

One last time gayle. What player do you know that is town that purposely avoids a game where they are the main target of a lynch?

One last time, Farside. Prove to me that Mavsfan was purposely avoiding the game.

@Sanhora:

Go back and re-read my posts along with Farside's responses to said posts. If Farside is town, why is she repeatedly twisting my words like this?

[xofelf]

i said that because with an open setup, you will never know for sure how it is til the end, and the mod comment was because certain mods mix it up much much more than others even when the game is open.

also, i apologize for my lack of anything so far. school and the fairly new boyfriend has been keeping me busy.

[farside22]

One last time, Farside. Prove to me that Mavsfan was purposely avoiding the game.

You know the profile and searching for post are down but I you lynch me see I flip town and know I was telling the truth about masv

Your gamble is all calling mans town over scum. You haven't stated a reason you find the dude town even when I point out I saw him online and now you want proof afterwards.........

yup pretty sure gayle is scum twisting in the wind.

sanhora since you are the party being disussed between myself and gayle. What is your view on the argument.

@Farside
-Why did you vote KMD over SK in post 48?
-What did you mean with '@Myko' in post 182?

As for why I picked kmd or sk. Kmd is harder for me to read as town or as scum. I wanted to pressure kmd to see if I could read him get a view on his alignment and I felt no closer but sk started comming off as scummier to me.

Oh that was supposed to be morph not myko.
myko's going to be upset I confused the two of them.

[farside22]

Oh and let me confirm mansv was indeed online here.

MOD: Can you please tell us if Mansv picked up the prods you sent out to him or if they are still in your out box.

Thank you.

[Gayle]

You know the profile and searching for post are down but I you lynch me see I flip town and know I was telling the truth about masv

"You'll be sorry when I flip town!" Standard scum procedure. Also, her flip is somehow indicative of Mavsfan's alignment.

Your gamble is all calling mans town over scum. You haven't stated a reason you find the dude town even when I point out I saw him online and now you want proof afterwards.........

Dear Miss Farside,

How many times do I have to repeat that I didn't call Mavsfan town? How many times do I have to repeat that there is not sufficient evidence to prove that he is either town or scum? How many times do I have to repeat that if there is not enough evidence for a read, then the result is essentially a gamble? How many times do I have to repeat that in that gamble we have far more likely a chance of lynching town than scum? How many times are you going to twist my words and ignore the actual meaning of my argument? How many [continued on reverse]

yup pretty sure gayle is scum twisting in the wind.

Pretty sure scum is twisting Gayle's words.

sanhora since you are the party being disussed between myself and gayle. What is your view on the argument.

Disingenuous. We are not discussing Sanhora. We are discussing Mavsfan. My argument does not apply to Sanhora.

[DTMaster]

@Gayle
1. I'm not

advocating a straight up lurker

lynch. I'm advocating a: A guy who posted nothing after he knows that the deadline was going to end in a week.

My issue was: Mavs at the time knew that the deadline was approaching yet posted nothing at all

. That goes beyond anti-town lurkering: That's just scummy to kill discussion like that when he knew this was happening before the extension.

Killing discussion @ Day 1 @ 1 Week left is bad.

2. You ignore the specifics of my case. We aren't advocating a lurker lynch, other wise Xolelf would be on the other block as well. Read my case. You ignored it you said it's just essentially a kill a lurker case. I outlined why a mav lynch was more preferable to a Xolelf lynch even though they both equally lurked.

3. Also your speculation is very very lacking and extremely scummy.

It reads as: I am scum who is defending the lurker but I'm not committed to defending him. If it came down to it Mavs could be scum or town

. Like seriously read below:

4. Actually. Dude.

Of course? What? When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

a. Lynching is always a gamble. Can we lynch Gayle instead for this scummy scummy post? You are being too wishy washy with this speculation. You say that Mavs could be town or scum: (oh mai his content is so littler therefore we can't get a town read, but I don't see enough to say he's not scum)

b. You are trying to break up a wagon on a suspicious guy. A bandwagon on day one is a useful pressure tool

to fricken gain those reads that you say we don't have enough on

on a guy who we don't have readss

You do absolutely nothing to fix this problem

.

c. Lastly you don't even attack me, the guy who started this case. You don't even attack KMD, the guy who agreed that Mav's wagon was more legitmate then Xolelfs, who everyone seems to compare to.

Again, break my attack down before you generalize this wagon as a bad one.

@Farside
In the words of DGB: It could also be Gayle looking for town cred. If Mav/Sahn flips scum Gayle is very likely to be scum here. However given that Sahn's posting do you think Mav/Sahn is a good lynch?

@ANI
You sir failed to read my attack. I outlined why I wanted a Mavs lynch over Xolelf k thanks bye.

@San
1. I voted SK and KMD because I thought SK voted after KMD but KMD predicted the vote. Then I posted: Whoops forgot CSL posts the vote count at top so that makes no sense, my attack is nothing.. So I RVS Ani. Then i switched to Mavs and started the push to lynch him. I can quote my voting history if you fail to see this.

2. Actually your point on TQH is pretty good. I would like to have this avenue investigated now.

Unvote

Vote: TQH

[DTMaster]

@Gayle/Farside

Issue 1: We have no read on Mav/San
Issue 2: Mav's post is antitown multipled by 10 due to the context of the post.
Issue 3: Neither of you are helping this situation. I decree that both players die because they are arguing over an issue:

but neither players seem to resolve it in any manner

Issue 4: Neither of them addressed Sanh's post.

[Gayle]

@Gayle
1. I'm not

advocating a straight up lurker

lynch. I'm advocating a: A guy who posted nothing after he knows that the deadline was going to end in a week.

My issue was: Mavs at the time knew that the deadline was approaching yet posted nothing at all

. That goes beyond anti-town lurkering: That's just scummy to kill discussion like that when he knew this was happening before the extension.

I'll say to you what I said to fellow scum farside, prove to me that Mavsfan didn't have a good reason for not posting.

2. You ignore the specifics of my case. We aren't advocating a lurker lynch, other wise Xolelf would be on the other block as well. Read my case. You ignored it you said it's just essentially a kill a lurker case. I outlined why a mav lynch was more preferable to a Xolelf lynch even though they both equally lurked.

Okay, sir. Let's look at your case.

The diffrence between Xoxelf and Ani versus Mav is MAV POSTED AFTER CSL GOD POSTED THE DEADLINE . I have yet to check Ani's or Xoxelf's posts to see if they are posting else where, but with the current information: MAV SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE DEADLINE IS IN A WEEK . If Ani or Xoxelf posted after CSL's announcement they deserve the same treatment.

Hence why it is my prefrence to run Mav up the wagon because HE HAS NO EXCUSE TO NOT SCUM HUNT . If Ani and Xoxelf aren't posting in other games, it means that they are legitly not on this website.

I caps the important part so you wouldn't miss it, again. My issue is with the timing of the posts. Xoxelf and Ani's are very useless, but Mav posted 2 hours after CSL's 1 week deadline announcement. He knew at the time of that post that our time to scum hunt is drastically reduced and contributed nothing .

A lot of words to say "MavsFan is scummy because he posted after the mod stated the deadline". You call that a case? The timing of his post is irrelevant if we do not know for certain that he doesn't have a good reason for not posting. You say that he wasn't scumhunting. It is ridiculous to accuse him of not scum hunting when he has two posts. In fact, the fact that he has two posts is the basis of why you are even accusing him of a lack of scumhunting. Therefore, yes, it is a "lynch the lurker" case.

3. Also your speculation is very very lacking and extremely scummy.

It reads as: I am scum who is defending the lurker but I'm not committed to defending him. If it came down to it Mavs could be scum or town

.

My issue was with policy lynching Mavsfan for no good reason instead of waiting for a replacement. Tell me how this is scummy in any way. My argument isn't lacking. Neither you nor Farside has been able to argue against it without twisting my words. Only scum would bother twisting my words. Therefore my argument was very effective in that it helped me uncover two scum.

Of course? What? When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

a. Lynching is always a gamble. Can we lynch Gayle instead for this scummy scummy post? You are being too wishy washy with this speculation. You say that Mavs could be town or scum: (oh mai his content is so littler therefore we can't get a town read, but I don't see enough to say he's not scum)

Lynching is always a gamble, but not always a gamble with such terrible odds. There was no evidence that Mavsfan was scum, therefore it was pointless for us to take such a gamble. It is not wishy washy because the point was that regardless of his actual alignment,

we didn't have enough information to lynch him instead of waiting for the replacement

.

b. You are trying to break up a wagon on a suspicious guy. A bandwagon on day one is a useful pressure tool

to fricken gain those reads that you say we don't have enough on

on a guy who we don't have readss

You do absolutely nothing to fix this problem

.

Except that he was at L-1 and it was close to the deadline. It was well past the point of pressure. We were about to take an extremely bad gamble. I wasn't doing anything to fix the problem? Tell me, who was the one arguing that we wait for the replacement to actually get a read?

c. Lastly you don't even attack me, the guy who started this case. You don't even attack KMD, the guy who agreed that Mav's wagon was more legitmate then Xolelfs, who everyone seems to compare to.

My intention wasn't even to attack anyone at first. My intention was to prevent a bad lynch. In the process of that, Farside's twisting of my words convinced me that she is scum. Much like yours have just done the same thing.

Issue 1: We have no read on Mav/San
Issue 2: Mav's post is antitown multipled by 10 due to the context of the post.
Issue 3: Neither of you are helping this situation. I decree that both players die because they are arguing over an issue: but neither players seem to resolve it in any manner
Issue 4: Neither of them addressed Sanh's post.

Look at issue 1 and then issue 2. What is 0x10?

Look at issue 3. "Both players should die because they are having a discussion that hasn't ended yet."

As for issue 4, I have no reason to address Sanhora's post.


TL;DR: Lynch Farside or DTM for twisting words and implying that they had a valid reason to suspect that a guy with two posts was scum.