Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.9 (As of my last post)

Sanhora -2- JacobSavage, Pomegranate

Pomegranate -1- Slaxx

farside22 -3- Gayle, animorpherv1, Gheb
Gayle -3- DTMaster, farside22, kmd4390

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf, TheLonging

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

DEADLINE: Friday, February 12, 2010, at 8:00pm EST

---

Gayle, placing the vote was enough to make you get all defensive. I think it served it's purpose.

KMD, if asking you to explain yourself is "defensive", then yes your vote caused me to become terribly defensive.

[farside22]

Gayle did you even read this post from CSL in regards to Mavsfan?

And this proves that he was purposefully avoiding this game because of the accusation made against him? How does this make it better to lynch Mavsfan rather than waiting for his replacement?

Are you shitting me? Are you really serious? WHY WOULD A PLAYER THAT IS POSTING ELSE WHERE AVOID A GAME THEY ARE BEING ACCUSED IN IF THEY ARE TOWN?
Stop avoiding this. Because that post from CSL proves he was posting elsewhere when there was heat on him. It proves he was avoiding this game and now you have nothing to say other then ithat.

Lynch scum Gayle please

[Kmd4390]

Gayle, placing the vote was enough to make you get all defensive. I think it served it's purpose.

KMD, if asking you to explain yourself is "defensive", then yes your vote caused me to become terribly defensive.

The sarcasm came off defensive. I just looked back and honestly, that's the only post I see it in. Still, it definitely looks that way. Also, your suspects are the players who are voting you.

[farside22]

By the way mansv posted on the 1st of Feb. The mod gave him another day to post on the 3rd and searched for a replacement on the 4th?

Question to the mod:
Before searching for a replacement did you prod mansv again?

[Kmd4390]

mavsfan

By the way, fixed.

[Gayle]

Also, your suspects are the players who are voting you.

Further proof you haven't read my posts. Which came first, my suspicions or their votes?


Also, please don't correct farside. I sort of like how she misspells it every time.

[farside22]

mavsfan

By the way, fixed.

I don't know why I keep seeing mans.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, Gayle, that's fair. You're right.

[Gheb]

Woah, posts been blowing up like mad. I'm gonna read into it / comment on it but first I'll answer a question directly asked:

@Gheb
-Is pointing out who you think is town scummy or not and why?

It's not scummy but it's still something you want to avoid doing as town. Openly stating who are the players you trust the most only paints targets on those players backs. At the same time scum gains little by posting such a list and it seems pretty much pointless for them to do so I don't assume that there's a bad intention behind it. Just something people should keep in mind.

[animorpherv1]

I lol how everyone is voting Gayle for essentially saying mavs is going to get replaced.

[Kmd4390]

I lol how everyone is voting Gayle for essentially saying mavs is going to get replaced.

Who is voting him for that?

[Gheb]

OK, so I'm curious as to why DTM and farside are voting for Gayle when they are so sure that mav's play has been anti-town (which I'd agree with) and advocated his lynch pretty clearly all day. Gayle has been playing pretty stupid but I'm not sure if that's because he's scum or just new. A lot of the stuff he said isn't flat-out scummy but just misinformed and I think it's too easy for scum to make him the scapegoat. Look townie if he flips mafia, blame it on his stupid play if he flips town - that's win/win for mafia and thus a likely wagon for them to jump on.

This makes me fairly suspicious of farside and I think her reactions to Gayle's concerns were pretty bad. I think she's exaggerating a lot in this case and looks like opportunistic scum searching the easiest lynch. Gayle lightweight-defending mav's is certainly something to keep in mind in case of a scumflip but at the same time I don't think his arguments were scummy enough to draw such a fierce reaction from farside. Farside only seems to be looking for the most comfotable lynch - the one that is the easiest to sweep under the rug.

Vote Farside

I'd also like to point a FoS at KMD for jumping the Gayle wagon for being so defensive. That's a textbook example of scum looking for a lame excuse to jump on a comfortable lynch. What's so unusual or scummy to be defensive when people jump on your wagon for a case that's blown out of proportion pretty hard? It looks like a pretty natural reaction of a player who's just not used to being scapegoated so hard.

[CSL]

Explosions of activity...nice.

farside, expect a PM from me shortly.

[CSL]

Expect a votecount tomorrow.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. Catchup tonight or tomorrow.

[farside22]

DTMaster I'm starting to agree with 3 people on your list now.

Gayle has asked for proof that masv was posting elsewhere. When given the proof she want's proof he's avoiding this game. Ummm duh he wasn't posting here when posting in other game. That in itself is all the proof.
I question Gayle because she has called it a mislynch, backtracked that statement and stated the player in question is more likely town then scum based on nothing at all.
When trapped with the fact the mod even stated he was posting elsewhere she say this:

And this proves that he was purposefully avoiding this game because of the accusation made against him? How does this make it better to lynch Mavsfan rather than waiting for his replacement?

What else would you call a player that is posting elsewhere but not in a game they are being accused?
I have seen this happen before but the game is currently in progress so I can't go further then say it looks to familiar to me to back down.

[Gayle]

Going to keep up with this scummy argument, huh? I asked for proof that Mavsfan was purposefully avoiding this game. There is none.

Also, let's look at some of Farside's interpretations of my statements.

I would like to replace mavsfan rather than risk a mislynch due to little information. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup.

1) talks about it as a mislynch

I don't necessary think he would be a mislynch, rather that with his grand total of 2 posts we have very little to determine if he is scum or not. It would basically just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town. Apparently he is going to be "force replaced" (far stronger than a normal replacement), and so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't wait to see what his replacement has to say.

stated the player in question is more likely town then scum based on nothing at all.

Don't those interpretations seem a bit disingenuous to anyone else?

Disingenuous Count: 10/100. Keep it up farside. I'm still quite a way from my goal.

[farside22]

Going to keep up with this scummy argument, huh? I asked for proof that Mavsfan was purposefully avoiding this game. There is none.

What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

1) Lets see actually statement: You are calling it a mislynch (twice). This implies you know something about the lynch or alignment of a player

2) backtracks comment (not a mislynch) Calls it gambling stating the player has better odds of being town because why?
You still avoid the why of this?

Gayle: Do you wipe away the slate of a player who replaces another you find scummy? Why or why not?

[animorpherv1]

I lol how everyone is voting Gayle for essentially saying mavs is going to get replaced.

Who is voting him for that?

That's what it looks like to me.

[Kmd4390]

I lol how everyone is voting Gayle for essentially saying mavs is going to get replaced.

Who is voting him for that?

That's what it looks like to me.

Give me names. Who, specifically, is voting for that reason?

[animorpherv1]

farside, IMO.

[Gayle]

What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

1) Lets see actually statement: You are calling it a mislynch (twice). This implies you know something about the lynch or alignment of a player

I would like to replace mavsfan

rather than risk a mislynch due to little information

. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup.

2) backtracks comment (not a mislynch) Calls it gambling stating the player has better odds of being town because why?

You still avoid the why of this?

It would basically

just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town.

There are 12 players. 4 are scum, 8 are town. That is roughly a 66% chance that any given player is town, and a 33% chance that any given player is to scum. So yes, there is a greater chance that Mavsfan is town. It is stupid to gamble on his lynch when our odds of lynching town are 2/3.

Lynching Mavsfan would therefore be a gamble. In a gamble, there is a much greater chance that town would be lynched than scum (66% chance as opposed to 33% of lynching scum). It would not be a very smart gamble to take, which is why I was arguing against it.

Let me fix that for you

You still avoid

I repeatedly ignore the why of this.

Gayle: Do you wipe away the slate of a player who replaces another you find scummy? Why or why not?

No. Because the fact remains that the slot still had scummy behavior.

[Pomegranate]

Unvote

. Replacement and a few pages... catchup is here.

@Pomegranate
-Why no vote, while stating you have scum read(s) in post 78?
-Other than the useless questions in post 108 (Which is just an attempt to look town to me), this post is scummy for a different reason. Why? It's because Slaxx later gets voted by her with Slaxx his random vote as one of her reasons, but this didn't get pointed out in this post, which is her first post after said random vote. Wanna explain why?
-Please respond to post 119.
-Got a bad taste in my mouth due to post 139. You really are accusing somebody of a Random Vote, while it was you would did the RQS? Not only that, the questions asked couldn't be used to determine any allignment at all.

1. It wasn't meant to be a scum read, just saying that I didn't think he'd done much. FoS-worthy, I guess.
2. I had skimmed, and saw that people were saying that my questions were useless. 118 was a short post explaining it. When I had more time to make a serious post, I did, and voted Slaxx.
3. What response are you looking for? I try to post my views on the game. That is my response.
4. RQS and RVS are different. I already said that my questions wouldn't determine alignments.

--

Your gamble is all calling mans town over scum. You haven't stated a reason you find the dude town even when I point out I saw him online and now you want proof afterwards.........

She's saying that in two posts it's hard to tell that he's scum, not that she knows that he's town (unless I'm mistaken).

Gayle, the reason for the mavs lynch was simple: we don't have much time. The deadline was supposed to be tomorrow. CSL gave us four more days, but that was the reason for the mavs wagon.

--

you lynch me see I flip town and know I was telling the truth about masv

Kind of AtE.

--

Gayle, placing the vote was enough to make you get all defensive. I think it served it's purpose.

I don't think she got that defensive- what I found scummy is how she continuously ignores the reasoning laid out for the mavs wagon.

--

Also, your suspects are the players who are voting you.

Further proof you haven't read my posts. Which came first, my suspicions or their votes?

I think that you were only suspicious of farside, originally.

--

FoS: Gayle, farside

.

You are both misrepresenting each other, or ignoring each other's explanations.

Farside says that Gayle said that mavs would be a mislynch. IIRC, she said that we didn't know much about him, and he could potentially be a mislynch.

Gayle keeps ignoring any explanations for the mavs wagon- that we were very close to deadline, and mavs hadn't posted any content, and had avoided this game.

On second thought,

Vote: Gayle

.

[Gayle]

I think that you were only suspicious of farside, originally.

Originally, yes. Then DTM began twisting my words in the same way, so that made him suspicious.

Gayle keeps ignoring any explanations for the mavs wagon- that we were very close to deadline, and mavs hadn't posted any content, and had avoided this game.

On second thought, Vote: Gayle.

Here you go, my first use of a smilie on mafiascum . It was close to the deadline. You had to make a choice. I understand that. Now what the hell has that got to do with my argument?

[Gayle]

Also, I am

L-1

, I believe.