Mini 914 ~ Mafia Reverberation (Game Over!)

[Jahudo]

ALL ABOUT ZORASTER:

Anyone voting zoraster can now mention why aside from vagueries posted earlier, please.

It looks like a policy lurker lynch to me. That was kinda the reason I was on board for a while. Maybe some of these posts can have some elaboration.

I wasn't happy with the good stuff, sorry. That was so lazy you might've just kept the stuff on the hydra and got rid of everything else.

Zoraster needs to post with more content before I feel better about him, honestly. His major case on MO is that he really isn't taking stances on anything, but back when he and Zorblag were around, it was pretty early in the game and they didn't have that much of a chance to do a whole lot, so I don't see them being all that scummy.

@Nacho: Is "not being active enough" a good scumtell right now? How is this scummy and not misguided town play from zoraster?
---------------------------

1. I guess it's also a coincidence that you're attacking the one who started your wagon.
2. I also guess we were supposed to ignore the questions people were asking us about how the hydra was going to work.
3. I also also guess I'm not taking a stand on anyone by advocating for your wagon.

Is this scummy and not misguided town focusing on you?

My stand is that I've lynched too many scum lurkers to stop now, and your contributions thus far haven't done anything to sway me.

@MO: This is straight-forward, but do you think he's the biggest offender as of right now?
---------------------------

I know for a fact that he was posting elsewhere on site.

I agree with Jahudo about zor making excessive excuses. I don't even think the site has been that annoying as of late (at least not as much as it was before mith made his corrections).

These don't look vague. They support the theory that zor was trying to lurk though.

Actually, I think zoraster's point about you being in the background was one of his better because I feel the same way. No doubt that CTIII is coloring my perception, but I'm certainly wary of your hydra.

@VP: Since you said this, do you think zoraster is being active and scumhunting? Do you agree with Nacho's reasons for being on the wagon?
---------------------------

I'm getting bad vibes from zoraster, BloodCovenent, and Mighty Orbots, but it's nearly all based on "gut" rather than on substantive evidence.

She still has her random vote on zoraster, and hasn't given a reason why she's keeping it on him over the other two. This is really vague.
@Jazzmyn: Do you agree with the reasons other people are on zoraster's wagon?
---------------------------

I think the part of the zoraster case I originally liked is too dependent on intangibles, like his internet access and time spent on modding. His offer to be lynched, instead of lynching him and another person, also gives me pause. It sounds pro-town.

[SpyreX]

If you quote me, please quote me correctly. I said, "little chance of ultimately being driven by scum."

The ultimate decision to lynch is not necessarily in a townies hands. The ultimate decision to shoot someone as a vigil is. Yes, a vigil might be influenced by scum to shoot incorrectly. But that ultimate decision is not made by the scum.

And, again, a lynch based on more than "me too" has about as little chance of being driven by scum.

As for the ultimate decision to lynch not being in a townies hands? What?

The majority of any lynch is townies. The collective ability to move their votes IS just as much of a decision as would be me pulling my proverbial trigger.

I think the point above addresses this pretty well, but suffice it to say there is a definite difference between being the sole arbiter of who gets shot and being one of 3 or 4 people who are deciding to lynch someone.

Put yourself in a hypothetical: it's lylo and you could either have the normal lynch situation OR you could have a dayvig as one of the townies. Which do you pick? If you decide anything other than dayvig, you're out of your mind.

Yea I'd pick the dayvig.

No, that doesn't really alter anything we're talking about. Be it a dayvig shot or a lynch in that scenario the game ends on a miss.

Oddly enough :gasp: the multiple lynches could be used to really push that forward much like now.

I'm afraid I didn't understand this point. Can you clarify?

More lynches and more room for manipulating this mechanic creates more variables scum have to worry about. Its not a bus/distance mechanic.

Things like "Ohh, hey, if we all crosslynch each other except for X and if X is town then we win" don't happen in a normal day-night progression. Things like that, while being the real outlier case, are scary as hell for scum.

The fact that lurking becomes a much less viable tactic because at any point its easy enough to go "hell, lets take em all out" is scary for scum.

These are good things.

It increases the power of a single vote, but it decreases the interpretive power of each lynch.

Well, yea? Everything about this does that. Every day we don't get a lynch and the threshold lowers that happens. I'm pretty sure I said that the wagon analysis this game was bonked due to this.

Let me ask you this hypothetical (I know I'm going hypo heavy today, but whatever): Let's say we were playing a nightless game. Which would be more likely to lynch scum: each lynch sequentially or combining lynches? What are all of the reasons this is true?

I know that hypothetical is not analogous (a scum kill coming in between each is of utmost importance), but it does serve to examine some of the hidden principles underlying this idea of combined lynches.

I'm really not sure what you're aiming at here but if the goal is to lynch scum multiple lynches (raw statistics aside) have a better chance to lynch scum. (again, to that penultimate "lynch everyone but X, if someone votes for X, lynch the person that voted him, repeat ad infinum" setup). Also note, if at any point this game somehow we end up with some confirmeds yes I'll damn well push for a purge of everyone else including myself.

What is this hidden principle? I'm absolutely missing what you're aiming for. Give a tired, tired brother some bullet points on what the secret POWERFUL WIZARD conspiracy is.

on the flip side:

I am of the pretty strong opinion that we should not purge more than two players, at least for the first phase. Not knowing what will happen in the night phase is a big variable that I would like to see before we push more purges than that at a time.

That being said, zor's argument against it is silly. Zor, what do you think the probability is that scum could influence multiple purges effectively this early in the game when they are so strongly out numbered? My guess is that if the town gets at least on a somewhat correct path for day 1 (ie purging at least one scum), the other scums would have a hard time dealing with the situation in a way that did not make them stand out.

I'd push for three, I'm fine with two. The argument of the night-variable does a lot more for me than the information/?? is.

Going to start looking at the sotty case now, but I'd still like someone on the wagon who is around to help me understand the arguments better.

My dealio is the reactions to what happened. The reflective SC is scum and was doing that to push a wagon off me (but I'm townish?) still makes my teeth itch.

HOWEVER, shocking revelation, if it looks like we're only getting two (wussies) I could see shifting for a day...maybe.

[SpyreX]

I think the part of the zoraster case I originally liked is too dependent on intangibles, like his internet access and time spent on modding. His offer to be lynched, instead of lynching him and another person, also gives me pause. It sounds pro-town.

Now, THIS stunt I have pulled before as scum. (zor, not Jah)

Even so, it does give me some pause, but not enough to really worry TOO much about it.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I'm just going to start from the beginning and address the points people are raising about Sotty.

The first is on page 4 by SC, I've already stated that I think this was a misreading and a weak attack. Spyrex double votes her immediately after this, which I still don't necessarily understand either.

Sotty then replies in Post 96. While I don't think her being annoyed at having three votes over an obvious misreading of her post is unreasonable, her linking of Spy and Serial is a touch strange. I don't feel that Serial was "deflecting from the Spy wagon" as she tries to put it. At this point, their voting seems like mutual exaggeration.

hrmmm, just spotted something weird I missed before. In Sotty's Post 107 she is explaining why she sees Serial's vote on her as an attempt to redirect away from the semi-serious Spy wagon. But in that post, Sotty, you say both:

This is pretty obviously a serious vote [by Porkens] and puts Spy at the head of the vote count with two RVS votes on him.

and

He [Serial] tries to redirect over to Porkens, who was voting Spy at the time, in a seemingly RVS mannor. Things were starting to get serious and he pulls this, I'd like to know why.

I'm not even sure I understand this. Do you see Porkens' vote serious or RVS?

I do think it is slightly weird that Sotty says she thinks scum-Serial would have been directing away from a wagon on town-Spyrex. That's pretty non-sensical.

*momentary side track*

Sotty was just a bit off - I don't mind questions, but those early posts weren't giving me those sweet home vibes. And, really, this Porkens-gate is a hoot and a half and I still can't figure out what Sotty is goin on about

I still do not understand this. At the time of your double vote she had said almost nothing other than questioning Serial about "why porkens". Had it been after her whole theory about you two being scumbuddies (but not really!) I could see your reasoning. As it is though, this seems like a bit of revisionism, which I hate.
*end momentary side track*

Porkens' vote in post 130

Sotty's reaction and flailing onto people on his wagon makes me feel comfortable with the vote above.

Doesn't exactly make me feel like he (she?) understands the arguments put forth and is using rhetoric to hop over.

That being said, Jazzmyn saying:

I'm also suspicious of those on the Sotty wagon because I just don't see any legitimate cause for it. Her posts have not been scummy and her wagon looks contrived to me.

Seems a bit strongly worded. Jazz, do you or did you agree with Sotty's logic at that point regarding her vote on Serial?

Sotty, did your read on serial change at all by post 170 when you said:

I wouldn't argue against a MO wagon at this point. I think the reaction to Spy's double vote on me was fishy. He just asked why me and yet didn't give any opinions of the action itself. Felt like he was waiting to see how others reacted.

You were sounding pretty confident about serial prior to this and I'm not sure why the sudden switch.

Jahudo's Post 189 stinks if you ask me. First, I don't think the quotes between Sotty and MO are comparable at all as one is asking about a wagon switch and the other is asking about the reasons for double voting. Jahudo says they are the same thing and Sotty looks hypocritical because of it. This is a bit troubling after Jahudo had not too much earlier seemed disinterested in the Sotty wagon. + scum points here

Hero agrees with this also, which I don't understand. *edit* and Spy *edit*

Nacho agrees (to a lesser extent) with the Sotty wagon, but doesn't say why. Care to explain?

Sotty, I think you had asked an innocent question to SC about his Porkens vote. And maybe you would have given an opinion on it before pressed to.

But two people asked similar innocent questions to Spyrex about his doublevote before giving any opinions on the subject. I think it's scummy that you aren't holding yourself, and others, to the same tell you put on Orbots.

This again does not sit well with me. The questions were not similar. Also, she attacked MO for fencesitting on the double voting issue, which isn't relatable to my "wtf" comment because I very clearly said I disagreed with it. Taking quotes out of context also doesn't sit well with me.

Jahudo, you need to explain to me how these quotes are the same.

---

tl;dr

Ok, that's pretty much the Sotty wagon. I still think it's weak. The ONLY reason I can see to support it is that she thought Serial could have been deflecting from a hypo-town Spyrex wagon. Sotty, I want to hear your updated opinions on this.

The stuff from Jahudo is trash to me unless he can actually explain logically whatever he is getting at. I don't like that lots of people followed on his logic either, though I guess I can see people not going back to look at the actual context and timeline of the quotes he's pulling.

I'll comment more after some people respond.

[VP Baltar]

lol, that's a lot of mega posts in a row. I'm sure the people already behind love this page.

[VP Baltar]

@VP: Since you said this, do you think zoraster is being active and scumhunting? Do you agree with Nacho's reasons for being on the wagon?

Well, that was on Feb. 3 and the only posts he has made since then were today in his theory debate over the multiple purges, so no I don't think he's scumhunting. More active, sure. The call for his own lynch does nothing for me. Scum do that all the time.

I think Nacho is lazily following the wagon. I don't know if he's town or scum doing it.

However, I do have a more interesting question for Nacho when he answers about his town read on MO.

[SpyreX]

I still do not understand this. At the time of your double vote she had said almost nothing other than questioning Serial about "why porkens". Had it been after her whole theory about you two being scumbuddies (but not really!) I could see your reasoning. As it is though, this seems like a bit of revisionism, which I hate.
*end momentary side track*

While I dig the dance, the tune is out of sorts. Allow me to play a hipper melody.

Before my votes, there was that little itch like thus:

Basically there is no excuse for lurking in this game. Not that there should be lurking in any game, but there you go.

With a game this complex it is good to get some level of understanding at the start. But still I think we should be careful about letting this become all about the set up and not about the actual game itself.

With that said, Juls, why did you incant Rhinox when we know he is V/LA?

Serial, why Porkens out of everyone?

As far as multiple purges go I think we have to be careful but I wouldn't be against purging two people at first and see where that gets us.

Enough for a POWERFUL WIZARD to unleash the darkest magics and see where it went via my giggles, guts, reactions vibe.

What happened after the fact was a wall of "well, that was a good idea SpyreX high fives all around"

That said, I'm gonna just go ahead a post some things. Guess who they're about and what we should do about it. Bonus points if you can guess what is missing.

I also like - very much - that the Game Mod frowns upon lurking and that the game has a relatively short activity requirement, as I really dislike lurkers and would change the site-wide mindset about not lynching lurkers if it was up to me. I am of the view that lurkers suck the life out of games and that the mindset against lynching lurkers gives far too much opportunity to scum to fly under the radar. So, I am hoping that this game, with its short activity requirements and its being non-friendly to replacements, will encourage everyone to participate actively and regularly.

Also, I can't make much sense out of the Sotty7 wagon being as large as it is. She seems to be one of the more active players so far, and I don't see anything with her posts/scumhunting. There isn't much to go on yet, but at least she's actively hunting, which is something I personally find difficult in the early stages of a game, so I'm not going to criticize her for it.

I do not yet have any really solid bases for great suspicion so far, but I also don't expect to get any really solid bases for great suspicion on Day 1. That said, I'm getting bad vibes from zoraster, BloodCovenent, and Mighty Orbots, but it's nearly all based on "gut" rather than on substantive evidence. I'm also suspicious of those on the Sotty wagon because I just don't see any legitimate cause for it. Her posts have not been scummy and her wagon looks contrived to me.

Again, my apologies, but I will get back into it in full swing this weekend.

Time keeps on slippin....

However, I will give that the *mysterious stranger* is mos def not scum with Sotty. That, if scum machinated, is a hand-wringing ohh snap I didn't lynch that townie dance versus anything fancy.

[VP Baltar]

I may be willing to come over that way Spy (or at least support that as one of our two purges today). I need a few more responses from some people before I really get in the "these are the people that NEED to die today" mode.

[Vi]

The disturbances started to seem exaggerated as the Luxomen pillar gained strength.
Noises that didn't seem to belong to the group occasionally crept into the few pauses in the conversation.

The time for decision was edging closer...

----

Incantation:

:arrow:

Sotty7 (P-4)

~

SerialClergyman

,

SpyreX

,

-INCANT-

,

Porkens

,

Jahudo

:arrow:

zoraster (P-4)

~

Jazzmyn

, Mighty Orbots,

VP Baltar

,

Jahudo

,

Nachomamma8

Rhinox (P-6)

~

Herodotus

,

Porkens

SerialClergyman (P-7)

~

Sotty7

Mighty Orbots (P-7) ~

zoraster

Nachomamma8 (P-7)

~

Rhinox

--At Intensity θ, it will take

9

8

Incants to Purge...
--The Intensity will increase on Monday, February 8, 2010...

[Herodotus]

@Spyrex:

For the beginning of 231, I see what you quoted from Sotty as including two good questions that could open lines of scumhunting. If there's something suspicious in there, I don't see it.

For the stuff toward the end of 231, I was going to wait and see what happened "this weekend." The mysterious stranger has escaped most of my commenting, but not my attention.

[Sotty7]

Sorry guys!

Been really busy these last few days. Going to try and catch up with the game this afternoon. If not by then I will squeeze in time tomorrow morning.

[VP Baltar]

ITT,

[SpyreX]

@Spyrex:

For the beginning of 231, I see what you quoted from Sotty as including two good questions that

could

open lines of scumhunting. If there's something suspicious in there, I don't see it.

For the stuff toward the end of 231, I was going to wait and see what happened "this weekend." The mysterious stranger has escaped most of my commenting, but not my attention.

I bolded the important.

There is a fine line between "useful scumhunting" and "saying non-offensive platitudes to appear to be scumhunting".

That was the initial itch. The after-vote stuff is very much more clean cut.

The weekend is upon us. POWERFUL WIZARDS demand tribute.

[Jazzmyn]

I'm back, refreshed, relaxed, and ready to get back into this after a hellish week.

I've made an adult beverage, torn up my game notes and am starting afresh, re-reading the game now and should have my new summaries up tonight.

Meanwhile,

Unvote

Regards,
Jazz

[Sotty7]

Spy this is the third time I am going to have to ask you, but what reactions out side of my own did you get from your double vote on me? You said that you did it partly for reactions, so what happened? Please stop ignoring me

Did I drop it or was I satisfied with the answer?

Easier to assume than ask amirite?

You know what, good point. Fair enough. You still didn't comment on the vote yourself though, that is my sticking point.

So... much.... irony!

You ARE reactionary. You just made this gigantic post after I said your name.

What...?

My post was not directed at you but a valid question brought up by Jahudo . Also I have posted pretty much every day (apart from after my busy spell) so saying that I only post after people mention me is utter bullshit. Add onto the fact now you have forced me into the situation of whenever anyone else mentions me, which will be a lot seeing as I am a lead wagon, I am going to look bad if I post a response. Scummy move.

You're complaining that I answered a question? o_O (<- anime smiley)

No, I am saying you are reactionary while you point the finger at me and say I am reactionary.

Incant: MO

VP Baltar could also have been waiting for others to chime in before he gave opinions on the matter, but Sotty only makes it a tell on Orbots.
Why didn't you talk about VP's post being fishy?

The difference between VP and MO is that at least VP is here. I got the feeling that MO was taking a back seat during that whole exchange. I feel more comfortable with VP right now than MO, that's not to say I think VP is town. I am having a hard time getting a read on him atm.

The only thing missing from Jahudo's point earlier was an incant, which I've been patiently waiting to see if he'll make. I'm very happy to see he has done so.

Anyone voting zoraster can now mention why aside from vagueries posted earlier, please.

+1 Active lurking.

hrmmm, just spotted something weird I missed before. In Sotty's Post 107 she is explaining why she sees Serial's vote on her as an attempt to redirect away from the semi-serious Spy wagon. But in that post, Sotty, you say both:

This is pretty obviously a serious vote [by Porkens] and puts Spy at the head of the vote count with two RVS votes on him.

and

He [Serial] tries to redirect over to Porkens, who was voting Spy at the time, in a seemingly RVS mannor. Things were starting to get serious and he pulls this, I'd like to know why.

I'm not even sure I understand this. Do you see Porkens' vote serious or RVS?

Poor explaining by me. I meant Serials vote on Porkens was RVS like. The whole "lets purge him without saying why!" thing.

Sotty, did your read on serial change at all by post 170 when you said:

I wouldn't argue against a MO wagon at this point. I think the reaction to Spy's double vote on me was fishy. He just asked why me and yet didn't give any opinions of the action itself. Felt like he was waiting to see how others reacted.

You were sounding pretty confident about serial prior to this and I'm not sure why the sudden switch.

It didn't change and still hasn't changed. There is just more than one scum and MO and Serial are my current top two by quite a large margin.

This again does not sit well with me. The questions were not similar. Also, she attacked MO for fencesitting on the double voting issue, which isn't relatable to my "wtf" comment because I very clearly said I disagreed with it. Taking quotes out of context also doesn't sit well with me.

This is another point against MO as well I think. Considering he also used the “WTF” when talking about the double vote that made it sound like he was against it. Since then he has hopped on the attack of me without adding anything new while making some very unreasonable points about my play (OMG you only post when someone mentions your name!1!!)

I will be back later tonight with thoughts on the whole player list. I haven't been looking much at Rhinox, nacho or Zora lately and I need to fix that.

[Sotty7]

Oh also, I think two purges is right number any more could get a little dangerous. I don't see any reason not to put the top two most scummy people though the purge.

Just hoping that by the time that rolls around people would have woken up in regards to me, but whatever.

[Vi]

Incantation:

:arrow:

Sotty7 (P-4)

~

SerialClergyman

,

SpyreX

,

-INCANT-

,

Jahudo

zoraster (P-5)

~

Jazzmyn

, Mighty Orbots,

VP Baltar

,

Nachomamma8

Rhinox (P-6)

~

Herodotus

,

Porkens

Mighty Orbots (P-6) ~

zoraster

,

Sotty7

Nachomamma8 (P-7)

~

Rhinox

SerialClergyman (P-8)

~

Sotty7

No Purge (P-7)

~

Jazzmyn

--At Intensity θ, it will take 8 Incants to Purge...
--The Intensity will increase on Monday, February 8, 2010...

[Sotty7]

Vi, can we get an updated player list for the front page so we know who replaced who?

Yes. Sorry for the inconvenience ~Vi

[Sotty7]

As it stands right now I don't have an issue with Jahudo or his vote on me. I do think VP is right in his assement of the quotes but I can see confusion there. It's more semantics than anything I think and I can see how you could be confused. I think Jahudo is likely town at this point mainly because he has been pushing everyone and anyone. Actively scum hunting gets plus points for me.

Rhinox seems to be staying away from the “big” things. He avoids commenting on my wagon until his last post and spends a lot of his big posts talking about multi lynches instead of actually... Oh I don't know, scum hunting? Rhinox, if you think Zora is likely town do you get any scum reads from the people on his wagon? What do you think of Serial's lurking?

In the meantime, you have to start somewhere, and throwin' a little mud around isn't a bad way to do it. Which one of Porkens, zoraster, or VP are you tarChainsaw defending, btw?

This is also a head scratcher. Why did you think Hero was chainsaw defending one of those people? I don't see it.

Zora hasn't really said much outside of MO and is getting into some deep theory stuff with Spy that isn't helping us hunt the scum. Zora what's your opinion on me? On VP?

Jazz needs more content. She is touching on Serial level of un-involvement and that's not very good.

Nacho throws out some reads but doesn't explain why. I'd like to know why you would lynch Zoraster, Rhinox, and, to a lesser extent, me. He also talks about low activity players which is funy seeing as he hasn't been doing much of anything lately.

Porkens what do you think of my wagon now? Why did you incant Rhinox?

VP seemed to be setting ground work to jump on my wagon promising a review. I was fully expecting him to incant me with the tone of his posts that lead up to that, but he doesn't. Instead choosing to stick by his initial read of my wagon. He gets a few townie points here simply because as scum he could have easily jumped on me if he wanted. I just got the feeling that he legit re-read my wagon to come to a conclusion. Scum would have a conclusion and then just re-read to find things that reinforce it.

Spy is just Spy. He plays like this as town or scum from what I have seen.

I liked Hero's entrance into the game, feels town.

Serial is tunneling on me and ignoring the rest of the game that seriously needs to change if he is town. right now I doubt that. MO is a likely buddy at this point

People I think should die ASAP: Serial, MO and Rhionx
People I'm not voting for today: Jahudo and Hero.

Everyone else is somewhere in the middle of all that.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo's Post 189 stinks if you ask me. First, I don't think the quotes between Sotty and MO are comparable at all as one is asking about a wagon switch and the other is asking about the reasons for double voting.

I think they are both asking about the reasons behind votes that aren't obviously stated in the thread. And neither question has a comment attached to it in the initial question post.

Jahudo had not too much earlier seemed disinterested in the Sotty wagon. + scum points here

There wasn't anything substantial for me there. I read it as pressure votes for them to get reactions. I was hoping for the same with my vote kept on you for an extended period.

This again does not sit well with me. The questions were not similar. Also, she attacked MO for fencesitting on the double voting issue, which isn't relatable to my "wtf" comment because I very clearly said I disagreed with it.

You didn't say anything in your initial post: Post 80. I think your referring to post 87? Spyrex had posted in between those two. But if we're going by real time, you gave your opinion way before MO. It took VP about 20 minutes, and I'm not sure MO has given an opinion on Spy's double vote yet.

So I'm trying to argue that your initial post 80, Mighty Orbots's post 93, and Sotty's post 67 all have a question over an unexplained vote switch. But none of those posts give an opinion straight away. It wasn't a big deal for me until Sotty used that tell to presume scum could be holding out on opinions until the town weighed in.

I'll admit it's imperative to believe that there was intent to continue holding out past that initial reaction of "wtf, unexplained vote? why?". VP didn't have the intent but it looks like MO did. Sotty may have, but she had to go into defense after being voted. So actually, if this tell is a good one it should be used against MO first and foremost.

Wait, what? I think I just argued for the MO wagon!
hmmm... let me rethink this. (and maybe look closer at the Rhinox wagon, because I <3 Rhinox wagons)

unvote

[Jahudo]

EBYOP: Lol, I can't unvote/unpurge. But you get the idea.

Also, lurker callout. You know who you are.

[Jazzmyn]

I literally fell asleep at my keyboard last night while writing my new game notes. I started from scratch, as mentioned, and went back to the beginning. This will be long, so I'll break it up into a few posts and then a tl/dr version afterwards.

Juls/Herod: I was not getting any good vibes from Juls while she was in the game and had her in my neutral/leaning scum column, as there wasn't much content, I didn't agree with her Spyrex vote, and she was voting one player while calling a different player scum. But since Herod replaced in, that has changed to a solid town read. He has made lots of good points about multiple purges, asked good questions about role reveals and how they affect a Reporter, has provided good info on his reads, has pointed out things that I missed, and I agree with him that the advantages of single-purging do not outweigh allowing the scum one kill per purge (if they can kill). The only thing I find myself disagreeing with him about is that he concurs with Jahudo about Sotty being hypocritcal about MO, while I don't see it that way. Town read.

Jahudo: Lots of good questioning and scumhunting, a nice pick up on Porkens agreeing with MO about multi-lynch while voting Spyrex for advocating multi-lynch, good questions to MO about their hydra account, provided useful info to me about Spaceballs and such. I agree with him about seeing Spyrex's double vote as pro-town, and I agree with him about SerialClergyman's fluff:scumhunting ratio being poor. There are lots more points upon which I agree with Jahudo, and only a few where I don't. Early on (66), he asked Rhinox if Rhinox thought that Juls used AtoE in her vote, which would be fine except why ask Rhinox instead of confronting Juls herself if he thinks that Juls was doing that? I disagree with his defence of Porkens re: using the newbcard when he says he took it as a joke, because although I could see the first one as a joke, I think that using it twice was suspicious. Minor, and Jahudo said he based it on meta, so probably no biggie, but the defence is still noted. Overall, I am very impressed with his posts, observations, and questioning, his noting of disingenuousness by (the former) BC and zoraster, his catch of MO switching from one lurker to another, etc. But as with Herod above, I disagree with his take on Sotty being hypocritical about MO. Town read.

Mighty Orbots: early post (51) discussing multi-lynches and pointing out some of the other potential roles that could come into play was not bad, but then post 68 discussing the hydra account and being worried about it opening up the two of them to attacks sounds like pre-emptively trying to excuse later attacks, i.e., to blame it on the hydra rather than scumminess, though it is further explained later (73), but not terribly convincingly, in my view. The "WTF did you just do?" question to Spyrex in 93 sounds contrived, since it was blindingly obvious what Spyrex had just done (double voted), although asking why Sotty is a legitimate question. Still, the first question sounds like 'playing dumb', which I find scummy. No problem with him calling out zoraster for lurking, even though zoraster wasn't the only one at the time. But the response to zoraster's entry post was to call it fluff and use a jokey tone in defending himself that sounds false to me. I also don't like his post (204) response with all the 'amirite', lulz, Scumzor, anime smiley, ohnoes stuff - that kind of thing reads to me like scum trying too hard to be jokey. Leaning scum.

More to follow, so that this doesn't turn into a wall of text.

Regards,
Jazz

[Rhinox]

Rhinox seems to be staying away from the “big” things. He avoids commenting on my wagon until his last post and spends a lot of his big posts talking about multi lynches instead of actually... Oh I don't know, scum hunting? Rhinox, if you think Zora is likely town do you get any scum reads from the people on his wagon? What do you think of Serial's lurking?

What big things am I staying away from? I don't understand this accusation. I'm indifferent on your lynch. I don't feel strongly for or against it. I'd rather explore other areas, like porkens and nacho, rather than commenting on a case I'm indifferent on at the moment.

Nacho is currently voting Zor, and I'm currently voting Nacho, so that should answer your second question.

What makes you think I'm not scum hunting? Accusations like these need to be backed up with evidence. Otherwise its just a Buzzword Accusation (TM).

I don't know about Serial's lurking and haven't really looked into him enough. He's under my radar at the moment.

This is also a head scratcher. Why did you think Hero was chainsaw defending one of those people? I don't see it.

At the time, I was voting porkens, asked VP a question, and threw an accusation at zor to see how he would respond. Hero made mention of all 3 of those instances and accused me of throwing mud around. My "Chainsaw defending" comment was a tongue-in-cheek way of accusing Hero of being scum partner with one of porkens, zor, or VP.

mod: why was jazzmyn allowed to unvote?

Porkens needs to come back and explain why he's voting me if he wants to purge both Sotty and Zor, and Nacho needs to come back so we can discuss the points I brought up in this post. I'm kinda in purgatory right now because my top 2 suspects are MIA.

[Jazzmyn]

Nacho replaced Blood Covenent, who had no content at all and replaced out at 153 but his explanation sounds legitimate and sincere, so no scum points for that. Nacho came in at 171 voting zoraster for his first post being lazy and his post being fluffy, but Nacho's own entry was just as lazy and fluffy, so that's hypocritical. I'm not sure if I'm following his train of thought in his post about multi-lynches (190) where he says that "scum would be forced to defend their scumpartner instead of raising an alternative wagon on a townie". If we multi-lynch, we are creating multiple wagons, and scum could still raise one on a townie, right? Nacho, can you please explain if I’m missing your meaning here? I agree with him on zoraster needing to post more (as do I, I know, I know), but he still hasn't commented in any depth on most players. His comments so far are pretty superficial. Neutral/leaning scum.

Porkens: The first newbcard didn't bother me; the second one did as it sounds more like "I don't know much about roles beyond the basics" which scum might say to cover up the fact that they actually have a complex role. It might be innocent enough but coming from an experienced player, it bothers me. He jumped on the Sotty wagon saying Spyrex is town because he wouldn't have doublevoted Sotty at that time if he was scum, which is weak, especially since Spyrex said he would actually do that as scum, and ostensibly because of Sotty’s "reaction to her wagon" and "flailing", neither of which seem legitimate to me. Then, he voted Rhinox without giving any reasons, saying "Just feel that, we could lynch them both... mmmmmm that sounds not only good but also sexy to me" which is not only cryptic and kind of silly, but also, there were two competing wagons at the time, one on zoraster and one on Sotty, so (a) who are the "both" he's referring to, and (b) how does leaving one of the competing wagons to jump on a third wagon achieve whatever his goal is with this post? Then, his last post calls for players to direct their votes a certain way in order to lynch zoraster and Sotty, right after he's moved his vote to Rhinox. That seems very not right to me. Leaning scum.

Rhinox: I'm not getting a real strong read on Rhinox one way or the other. Some of his posts make me think he's town and others make me think he's scum. He entered the game saying he had not read the thread, which is fair enough because he was V/LA at the outset of the game, but he also said he hadn't even read his role PM. I cannot imagine popping in to post in a game without even reading my role PM, so I find it suspicious that he claims not to have done so. His early posts aren't bad, I agree with him about Porkens and the newbcard, he confronted Juls' scum read on him asking appropriate questions, and it's pretty hard to defend against a "gut" read so I can't really fault him there. But later he says that he doesn't do town lists or scum lists, which is pretty unhelpful to Town but pretty good cover for Scum. I agree with him about Nacho's entrance to the game, and he added to the discussion about whether or not to multi-lynch with some points worth consideration, but I disagree with his conclusion; I think 2 purges today would be a good idea. I agree with him about not lynching zoraster today, as a result of zoraster's recent post about lynching him alone if we were inclined to lynch more than one player, which moved zoraster over from my scum column to my neutral/leaning town column. Neutral/poss third party?

More to follow.

Regards,
Jazz

[VP Baltar]

I think they are both asking about the reasons behind votes that aren't obviously stated in the thread. And neither question has a comment attached to it in the initial question post.

But if you are looking at the context of the questions and the specific arguments they are asking about, they are not the same at all, which is what I'm getting at. I guess I can see you reading it on that level, however.

You didn't say anything in your initial post: Post 80. I think your referring to post 87? Spyrex had posted in between those two. But if we're going by real time, you gave your opinion way before MO. It took VP about 20 minutes, and I'm not sure MO has given an opinion on Spy's double vote yet.

Yes, I'm talking about the overall timeline. My opinion was stated before Sotty's post, so a comparison between MO and myself on that issue is not valid in the slightest.

I literally fell asleep at my keyboard last night while writing my new game notes.

That's one strong beverage!

Also now is the time to

Unincant, Incant: Serialclergyman

for playing completely against his normally active and questioning town meta.