Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[Gayle]

Nvm, I'm too used to newbie games.

[Pomegranate]

I think that you were only suspicious of farside, originally.

Originally, yes. Then DTM began twisting my words in the same way, so that made him suspicious.

Gayle keeps ignoring any explanations for the mavs wagon- that we were very close to deadline, and mavs hadn't posted any content, and had avoided this game.

On second thought, Vote: Gayle.

Here you go, my first use of a smilie on mafiascum . It was close to the deadline. You had to make a choice. I understand that. Now what the hell has that got to do with my argument?

1. K, I get that.

2. If we needed to lynch someone, he was the best choice. No, we do not know his motivations for avoiding this game. It is still scummy.

[Gayle]

2. If we needed to lynch someone, he was the best choice. No, we do not know his motivations for avoiding this game. It is still scummy.

Okay, let me see if I understand this.

You say:

The deadline was approaching. Town needed a lynch, and Mavsfan was avoiding the game. You are certain of his intentions because he was sighted on MS.

I say:

There are any number of reasons he could have for not posting. There is no way to determine his intentions.

What I was arguing:

We should replace Mavsfan instead of lynching him with so little information.

What Farside was arguing:

Gayle is defending Mavsfan and calling him town for no good reason.

Your Conclusion:

I am ignoring explanations and am scum.

What?

Pom, what

exactly

is your reason for voting me? Because I maintain that we cannot read Mavsfan's mind?

You've made some allegations that are simply untrue. Show me where I misrepresented Farside. While you are at it, tell me how the explanations I am supposedly ignoring make the following argument scummy

I would like to replace mavsfan rather than risk a mislynch due too little information.

[CSL]

You know, it's rather entertaining that you two are arguing over a replacement, but this is getting out of hand.

Expect a votecount by 10:30.

[Gayle]

You know, it's rather entertaining that you two are arguing over a replacement, but this is getting out of hand.

Expect a votecount by 10:30.

The replacement isn't actually the subject anymore, rather the subject is the arguments that resulted from the replacement discussion, and why those arguments may or may not be scummy.

Or are you saying that there is nothing to worry about in those arguments?

[Pomegranate]

2. If we needed to lynch someone, he was the best choice. No, we do not know his motivations for avoiding this game. It is still scummy.

Okay, let me see if I understand this.

You say:

The deadline was approaching. Town needed a lynch, and Mavsfan was avoiding the game. You are certain of his intentions because he was sighted on MS.

I say:

There are any number of reasons he could have for not posting. There is no way to determine his intentions.

What I was arguing:

We should replace Mavsfan instead of lynching him with so little information.

What Farside was arguing:

Gayle is defending Mavsfan and calling him town for no good reason.

Your Conclusion:

I am ignoring explanations and am scum.

What?

Pom, what

exactly

is your reason for voting me? Because I maintain that we cannot read Mavsfan's mind?

We say:

The deadline is approaching. Town needs a lynch, and Mavsfan was avoiding the game. We are not certain of his intention, but he was seen on MS, and it seems most likely that he was avoiding the game.

Gayle says:

We don't

know

mavs intentions. We can't lynch him, even if deadline is so soon. We should wait for a replacement for Mavs, and for him to read up, post, etc., and then we will see if he's still a good lynch.

We say:

Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice.

Gayle says:

Stop misrepresenting me!

--

Gayle, if you saw my 272, I do think farside misrepresented you a bit. But the fact that you can't seen to get it into your head that maybe mavs was a good lynch then, and maybe there was a reason... well, it's a bit frustrating.

[CSL]

Five days until deadline, and it's going nowhere.

[Gayle]

We say:

Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice.

Pom... you do realize that Mavsfan has been replaced and the deadline extended right?

Gayle, if you saw my 272, I do think farside misrepresented you a bit. But the fact that you can't seen to get it into your head that maybe mavs was a good lynch then, and maybe there was a reason... well, it's a bit frustrating.

So the reason you are voting me is because I wanted to replace Mavsfan rather than lynch him?

Five days until deadline, and it's going nowhere.

CSL, at least six players (from memory) have changed their vote because of this discussion. That is getting nowhere? Or are you saying we are on the wrong track and are therefore getting nowhere?

Gonna keep talking to you until you realize that it is a bad idea for a mod to give his opinion on the discussion.

[Pomegranate]

We say:

Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice.

Pom... you do realize that Mavsfan has been replaced and the deadline extended right?

Yes, I realized. I guess I should've written 'We said:...'

[Gayle]

Pom, you and farside (you weren't even around) never argued that we didn't have time to wait for the replacement. Farside was arguing that there was a good reason for suspecting Mavsfan was scum. Where exactly did you pull "Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice." from?

[Pomegranate]

I don't think I said that Mavs was

very

scummy. When we didn't have much time, he was the best choice. I disagree with farside that he was

very

scummy, but I agree with her that he was the best lynch at the time.

[Slaxx]

Ani, your posts are really lazy and unthoughtful. You dont give reasons and only give an example after asked.

This conversation has evolved from debating a lynch, to debating opinions on a lynch (probably the optimal place to stop), then debating what each other said, then debating how the other one interpreted the first opinion of what they said. or whatever. see how confusing this concept is? Its not easy to follow along either. I do agree that the convo has moved us away from a possible policy lynch. Im not getting scumreads on any of the participants, though. I think its town on town action.

@animorpherv: Do you think this conversation has moved the town forward? Or in the wrong direction?

@Sanhora: Suspicion on me is fine, IDC. If I can defend myself well. Bandwagons are even better. Thats how you catch scum, yes?

[Gayle]

Pom, you are confusing me so much right now. Can you please state as clearly as possible why you are voting me?

[Gayle]

@Slaxx:

May I ask for your opinion on this and this?

[Slaxx]

Your first example is right: you did lay out odds and say he is better on town. Thing is, thats no reason to vote you, FoS you, or my newly discovered [From this game (And semi scummy)] PoS you. Thats just you laying out odds. Correct odds. Im not for sure why farside thinks this is scummy.

First example on second link: Yeah, thats not right. I could see any townie saying something like that, and I dont think I would FoS it. I think policy lynch would be a better term however. I see where shes coming from but I personally don't find it scummy.

Second Ex: Yes, I dont know whats so hard to understand about the concept of odds. Obviously mislynch odds are better.

I don't know how I feel about you two yet. Im getting mixed vibes from both.

However,

unvote

And

vote:animorpherv

for lazy posts and lack of any explanation.

[CSL]

Woah. Sorry guysm but I had to do something for a friend, and it took me until I had to go to bed. NOW you should be expecting a votevount by 9am.

[Sanhora]

About post 154, is your vote justified in your opinion, while you didn't do any scumhunting at all before this post?

I Iso'ed all the players (essentially looking through the thread again)

Also, why Farside, while others were discussing about set-up much more when looking at their amount of posts and how many of their posts are about the set-up?

Becxause I feel farrside would be able to get away with it more

, by being a better scumhunter, and the open queue mod, so she knows what she's doing, right?

In response to my first question, did you ISO or read? Because from what you're saying there, I can't tell which it is >.<
I also hope that you'll explain to me how that is an answer to my question, because I don't see how it is.
As for the second one, can you elaborate on your answer? What do you mean with the

bolded

part in italics?

@Sanhora:

Go back and re-read my posts along with Farside's responses to said posts. If Farside is town, why is she repeatedly twisting my words like this?

The following quote will be discussed, but my answer will also respond to Farside's question:
I see two arguments used against Gayle.
1. Called my lynch a mislynch
2. His 'defence' of Mavs abscence.
As to the first, I don't see it as a scumtell. For those who wonder why, we're dealing with two scumteams here. The only players who know an allignment of a different player are the scum partners of the same team.
Add that the quote calling it a mislynch was:
"I would like to replace mavsfan rather than

risk

a mislynch

due to little information. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup."
Regarding the second argument, one thing should be said first. Farside, it's your word on which this is all based. Without evidence, who knows what you've seen? And you've made that clear yourself by posting this:
"You know the profile and searching for post are down but I you lynch me see I flip town and know I was telling the truth about masv"
But to answer your question (If Gayle could think of a player who left, while being attacked though 'checking' the site/game), I can. And if we'd look at multiple newbies, I think we can find quite a few.

As for Gayle's arguments against Farside, I have seen two.
1. Pushing the Mavs wagon heavily.
2. 'twisting' your words.
To the first I'll say what I say usually: Disagreement is not a scumtell.
As for the second, knowing Farside, she is misunterprating what you're stating and asking/accusing you based upon her interpretations.

tl;dr you two are wrong with the accusations.


(That's it for page 8. Onto the others and hoping my next post(s) won't be as large >.<)

[Kmd4390]

CSL's 278 has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle...

-----------------

281...yeah..

Unvote

---------------

Hmm. Well, our wagon reached 4. 12 players in the game. 4 are scum. That's 25% of the players being scum. Another 25% on the wagon. I'm gonna say decent, not great, but decent odds of one scum on it.

Vote Pom

since I have town reads on the other 2, and know myself to be town. Also, her posts are kinda scummy.

Anyone who votes Pom gets cookies.

[farside22]

First things first. Morph has incorrectly interpreted the reason I'm pushing Gayle. It has nothing to do with the person being replaced.

FOS: MORPH

farside22 wrote:
What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

If I see a player looking in on Little Italy who should be posting in here and doesn't. They are avoiding the game on purpose.
If you know a player is avoiding a game how can you say they are not avoiding it on purpose?

I don't care if someone replaces in a game where I find someone scummy. I'm not going to ignore the fact that the person was a newbie. Newbie typically as scum say little to nothing because they don't know how to respond as scum. This is what I see as a mod. The fact that the person who posting just once since this argument is typically not a good sign either.

So let me get this straight you think he's town because of the odd's %
Doesn't that mean anyone in this game has the same odds of being town that you just gave mavsfan? You do realize that there are 2 scum groups that can't kill each other and may actually want to lynch a player from the opposite alignment?

[Kmd4390]

I could lynch Animorph if people want to do that.

[Sanhora]

@TheLonging
-Can you elaborate more on your thoughts of Random Voting after the RVS?
-What reads did you have at the time of post 120? Because I haven't found anything from you at all.

1. You mean slaxx's random voting? I found it at the time to be bad, because I didn't really consider it RVS at all at the time. It did lead us out of the setup discussion and into real scumhunting mode, so I guess it did help us out. If you mean in general, I think it's a bad thing, especially if people are trying to scumhunt and all of a sudden someone random votes. I'd be pretty suspicious of that person.

2. I thought DTM was pretty town tbh, as well as Gheb. For scum reads, mavs because he was suspicious of no one and contributed nothing, and I thought (at the time) Slaxx because of randomly voting.

Some questions for you as well.
1. How come you didn't vote Slaxx, while thinking he was scummy?
2. Why did you vote Mavs over Slaxx, while Mavs was guilty of not contributing and Slaxx being guilty of not contributing and random voting?


@KMD
Can you state your reasons for supporting a Gayle-wagon or is 'fun' all there is?


@Farside
Can you paraphrase us what CSL PM'ed to you?


@Ani
Can you explain how you saw Farside's arguments as 'I voted Gayle for essentially saying Mavs is going to get replaced'?
And how you didn't see this at others who support the Gayle-wagon?
Special note: Farside isn't Everyone.

@Pomegranate
-Why no vote, while stating you have scum read(s) in post 78?
-Other than the useless questions in post 108 (Which is just an attempt to look town to me), this post is scummy for a different reason. Why? It's because Slaxx later gets voted by her with Slaxx his random vote as one of her reasons, but this didn't get pointed out in this post, which is her first post after said random vote. Wanna explain why?
-Please respond to post 119.
-Got a bad taste in my mouth due to post 139. You really are accusing somebody of a Random Vote, while it was you would did the RQS? Not only that, the questions asked couldn't be used to determine any allignment at all.

1. Now I'm curious. You had somebody (Multiple players) as FoS-worthy (Were Mavs and Xofelf included as FoS-worthy or not?). So instead of going after that player (Those players), you thought of a RQS? How come?
2. Almost there. My quote said post 108, not 118. Post 108 is the one with your RQS and was your first post made after Slaxx second random vote on you.
Wanna try again?
3. I assume that that means that your answer to "So the past five pages gave you no insight to anyone at all?" is yes. Now that is interesting seeing who you criticised.
4. If 2. and 3. don't give you the award of hypocrite, 4. will help you with that. Because both you and Slaxx are claiming to trying to get discussion going with the RV/RQ. Yet, it's you who then vote Slaxx. Ironically, Slaxx succeeded.
But anyway, this and that you had somebody as FoS-worthy yet went for a RQS is not looking good at all.

Question: In this post you mention Gayle's and Farside's misinterpretations. If you think this, then what about DTM?


Last page up after this (Dinner time)

[Sanhora]

Due to Pome's arguments:
''Deadline'-voters' - TQO, Pome?
'Mavs was scummy-voters' - KMD, DTM, Farside, TheLonging, Pome?

Your 'We' doesn't contain majority for some reason.

Also, I can't remember. Can you tell me who brought up the deadline argument? (@Pome)

P.S. KMD, 4/12 isn't the same as 1/4. 4/12 is the same as 1/3.
Can you elaborate on your opinion on Pome?

[Kmd4390]

Sanhora, I saw valid reasoning in the wagon and decided to test the waters. I saw scummy reactions, but the Mod's posts make me think I was wrong.

Sorry for the math fail. *Shrug*

[Sanhora]

Can you elaborate on your opinion on Pome?

^^Points for KMD.
And that was I was wondering about as well. How do you see the mod's post as such?

[farside22]

It's hard to paraphrase what the mod said but the best I can do is him asking me if I saw the dude posting elsewhere.
I pointed to him the game I saw him in and left it at that.

unvote:
vote: animorph

I'm starting to get that this is a town on town argument. But I don't think Gayle listens. It's not about a replacement to me. I don't care that CSL got a replacement. I see a player that is posting elsewhere. Got prodded and ignoring this game it's scummy. Lack of post is a newbie scum tell.
The reason I'm voting morph.
misinterperts the purpose of the vote. Offers nothing to the game. Active lurkering. All equal's scum.