Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[xRECKONERx]

I can't even do anything to convince you guys otherwise anyway. If I had claimed mason, the masons would be like 'lol no' and I don't want to out the masons. The entire case on me is that I flirted with both wagons yesterday. There's literally no way for me to defend that... I wanted a PCE lynch more, but when the charlatan lynch was inevitable, I hammered. There's nothing else I can possibly say about it. In retrospect, yeah, it was a stupid fucking decision, but I wasn't going to get my lynch, and our mod refuses to implement deadlines.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well you can tell us who you think is scum as a final service to the town.

[Sando]

Vi: I'm confused, how does not claiming prev-mason help you do that? I can understand if you're looking for a read on your previous partner, but to get a read on a 3rd party? And all of this was for ABR specifically?

As to what you were in the previous game, it was never about what you were, but your avoidance of the question. This would be bleedingly obvious to anyone who saw what I was last game. As I claimed that I was scum last game, I'm obviously not looking to accuse you of 'well you were scum last game you must be this time' given that I know you weren't, and I obviously either know that the roles changed or would like everyone to think that. You avoided the question despite repeated attempts to get you to answer it, I think that's scummy, and I still can't see how 'well I wanted to read ABR' is good reasoning.

I totally asked Sando about this very same thing in 680! I thought I used "elephant in the room" already ITT.

Considering it wasn't what I was accusing you of, I thought it was a pretty stupid question. I threw blame on the last 3 voters on that wagon fairly equally, and said it was opportunistic of you because I thought that, plus other things, deserved a vote. You then decided that my suspicion of you, and DDD (not one of the 3 mentioned), were particularly bad from me. I never said that you were trying to get a quick-lynch on Reck, I said that you were opportunistically jumping on a wagon with little to no reasoning.

As for the question that I missed, what do I think of the VPB/ABR circus: The fact that it's now happened both days, with little to no result, makes me think distancing. I don't recall it resulting in a vote either way on D1, and as ABR has pointed out, VPBs vote is hardly going to result in an ABR lynch at this stage, so it's a safe distancing vote. ABR's vote on VPB is in fairly stark contrast to his vote on Reck (actually all of his votes are really) in that he doesn't really push for a lynch like he is on Reck. It looks to me like they distanced from each other early D1 and have decided to remind people of this D2. Neither's case strikes me as genuine, but then I haven't felt any of their cases are genuine really this game, so I could just be misreading.

@Hito - What's wrong with Serials 761? He merely states that he might join Ojanen's 'sexy wagon'. I don't see how this is at odds with previous play/statements?

[xRECKONERx]

Scum is DDD and VPB. No idea on the third.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What makes you think so?

[SerialClergyman]

Albert, why does a vanilla claim here mean we have to lynch, but a vanilla claim in our previous friends and enemies game give you a town read?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well I was a mason in that game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The circumstances were different, anyway. Hewitt came across as someone who would fake claim if he was scum and had to.

[Albert B. Rampage]

We shouldn't be discussing ongoing games.

[SerialClergyman]

The 'sexy wagon' reference was a game where Ojanen replaced in and I asked her to join the wagon I was pushing at the time by saying 'come join my sexy wagon'. Unfortuantely for me she was also scum, didn't bus her buddy and killed me that night.

But the fact she referenced it and the way she finally took something up and responded to the pressure a little more vigorously is good times.

@ Albert: Fair enough.

Reck's is a poor wagon, imo.

vote VP Baltar

[Sando]

The 'sexy wagon' reference was a game where Ojanen replaced in and I asked her to join the wagon I was pushing at the time by saying 'come join my sexy wagon'. Unfortuantely for me she was also scum, didn't bus her buddy and killed me that night.

Yeah I got the reference, but I don't see the problem that hito has with what you said even if the reference wasn't there. And hito wasn't in the last game, so I assumed he didn't get the reference

[SerialClergyman]

That was a different game, sando, that was the one with bigmc etc, not the previous incarnation of this one.

My understanding is that he feels I derailed the reck lynch then worked my way off Albert and onto VP, who is town. I think that's right - it doesn't make sense to vote my scumbuddy Albert out of the blue if Reck is town, and it doesn't make sense to work my way off of Albert and onto VP if Albert is town, so I think that's his opinion at the moment. If I've misrepresented you, by all means correct me, hito.

I think in vacuum that indecisive 'I might join another wagon' thing can be a red flag, it's just in the context of who I was talking to and about that his theory pretty quickly descends.

[Vi]

Vi: I'm confused, how does not claiming prev-mason help you do that? I can understand if you're looking for a read on your previous partner

Ah good, you understand then.

But even otherwise, there's no scum motivation for not answering that question. There's no reason to twist it into a scumtell.

I totally asked Sando about this very same thing in 680! I thought I used "elephant in the room" already ITT.

Considering it wasn't what I was accusing you of, I thought it was a pretty stupid question.

===NEWS FLASH===
*I don't only ask questions in self-defense
*I don't expect people to only ANSWER questions in self-defense

You then decided that my suspicion of you, and DDD (not one of the 3 mentioned), were particularly bad from me.

Read context, then try again

I never said that you were trying to get a quick-lynch on Reck, I said that you were opportunistically jumping on a wagon with little to no reasoning.

And you are essentially correct. But you just said that I wasn't trying to quicklynch xRx... so where's the problem?

The hot topic today is xRx. Weigh in plz.

---

As promised before, my thoughts in general.

Trollblag is virtually invisible. I know he's V/LA across the site, but he's only made three posts today and two of them were "lol lynch reck". And after 800+ posts... that's really all I remember about him.

Mod: Prod Zorblag

ABR is etc.

I didn't have a problem with SerialClergyman D1, but I don't like his

raw sexual magnetism

D2 play. In particular, 788 waffles with a lot of people, and it just seems like he's not there at interesting times (i.e. while xRx was hanging at L-1 for a while). His Sando-Town read seems to be based on the assumption that xRx is scum and Sando wasn't pulling an "epic derail", yet he now doesn't like the xRx wagon, so... something's inconsistent.
I would like to hear more about this relationship with Troll and the "code". I would also like to hear about what VP Baltar has done to warrant a vote.

Over the course of the game Ojanen has gone from neutral to very neutral to mildly scummy to rather scummy to I don't have any idea, which is where I'm at now.
@Ojanen: Your thoughts on the xRx lynch going on nao?

Sando is etc.

VP Baltar is etc.
I would like to hear about my former Mason partner's goal for the game, since I talked about mine.

The reason I kept my vote on xRx was because I didn't see much of a reason to remove it without someone else becoming scummier. Pretty much everything he's said since he was at L-1 has been unlikely at best. (well okay, not the V/LA notices, but etc.) I'd like to wait a little longer for responses before joining the wagon, but I'm in favor of it.

My reflexive response to PCE was that he was Town who was being misunderstood/scapegoated. Since then, hito has been kind of

eh

for me. I didn't mind the ABR vote at first, but I think it's worn itself out.

I don't know what you saw in his D1 play that's 'too town to fake', but does it really justify craplogic like

["I can't lynch RECK if SerialC is voting me"]

Check out where ABR's vote is. (Granted, SerialClergyman was still voting for ABR at the time. But etc.)

I don't particularly have a problem with DDD. I looked over Appenine Mafia (where he was scum), and there is an interesting difference between past and present play (that I'll keep to myself, but etc.).

[Head_Honcho]

Zorblag has been prodded.

Votecount:

xRECKONERx(4): Debonair Danny DiPietro, Zorblag, VP Baltar, Albert B. Rampage
Vi(1): Sando
Debonair Danny DiPietro(1): xRECKONERx
Albert B. Rampage(1): hitogoroshi
VP Baltar(2): Ojanen, SerialClergyman
Sando(1): Vi

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

DDD is scum because he's flying under the radar under this guise of "Oh, I'm just not gonna participate because I'm cool like that. See, it's meta!" Though, the only game I've played with him and SC was Mayor Mafia, and DDD's lurking wasn't anywhere NEAR as bad that game. I think his vote on me, followed by him trying to take credit for "starting the wagon" when I think I was a very obvious wagon target (for the hammer yesterday) is scummy.

VPB, I 'unno, I don't like his exchanges with Ojanen.

[SerialClergyman]

Vi, assume sando is town, who is scum?

[VP Baltar]

I would like to hear about my former Mason partner's goal for the game, since I talked about mine.

I didn't really have a second step beyond doing what it takes to ascertain his alignment if that's what you're asking. That's really the only plan I ever have as town.

I do have to say that I don't know what to think about his strong support of the Reck wagon. It seems genuine enough, so that means he's either town or I'm on the wrong track.

[hitogoroshi]

My understanding is that he feels I derailed the reck lynch then worked my way off Albert and onto VP, who is town. I think that's right - it doesn't make sense to vote my scumbuddy Albert out of the blue if Reck is town, and it doesn't make sense to work my way off of Albert and onto VP if Albert is town, so I think that's his opinion at the moment. If I've misrepresented you, by all means correct me, hito.

I think in vacuum that indecisive 'I might join another wagon' thing can be a red flag, it's just in the context of who I was talking to and about that his theory pretty quickly descends.

Not quite. What really bugs me is that you started a wagon that I agreed with, and you derailed that even while your vote was on ABR by not pushing the wagon at all and publicly, loudly exploring other options. ABR responded to your vote with an OMGUS vote on you, but you then seemed to completely forget where your vote was. Your post saying you'll consider ojanens wagon sounds like you don't have a vote on anyone. In essence, speaking as someone who finds ABR's actions scummy, I have a very hard time believing you honestly voted ABR because you thought he was scum.

I'm kind of aggravated that while I feel ABR came off greatly for the worse in that exchange everyone else seems inclined to pretend it never happened because his vote is back on Reck. That being said, lynching Reck is a hell of a consolation prize so I'm not as mad as I normally would be.

Vi, I'll probably be with you tomorrow on that Sando lynch (I'm gonna re-read him tonight with his most recent posts in mind). But for now, what the hell:

unvote, vote: Reckoner

And that is L-1 for real this time.

[xRECKONERx]

What the hell. I might as well self-hammer. Any objections?

Just... promise me a DDD or VPB lynch will happen tomorrow after I flip.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't particularly have a problem with DDD. I looked over Appenine Mafia (where he was scum), and there is an interesting difference between past and present play (that I'll keep to myself, but etc.).

Not even in post-game?

~~~

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

[VP Baltar]

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

Why does this sound like you think he'll flip town?

[Albert B. Rampage]

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

Why does this sound like you think he'll flip town?

It sounds to me that DDD thinks that reck will flip town. He's saying that reck is trying to lynch town in the days subsequent to his death.

[Sando]

And rec continues to try and hurt the town by securing posthumous town lynches.

Why does this sound like you think he'll flip town?

It sounds to me that DDD thinks that reck will flip town. He's saying that reck is trying to lynch town in the days subsequent to his death.

Wait what?

DDD thinks reck is town, but thinks that reck is doing what only a scum would do in trying to get town lynched?

You confuse me.

Serial, you're right, I got my prev Oj+SC games mixed up.

*I don't only ask questions in self-defense

So you questioned why I accused you of something that you know I didn't accuse you of? That's just retarded.

You do realise that reck declared me town after I weighed in on his wagon right? I thought the last wagon was terrible, I'll look at this latest one today.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Typo. Replace town by scum.

[Sando]

'DDD thinks reck is scum, and thinks reck is trying to lynch town in the following days'?