Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.10 (As of Post 324)

animorpherv1 -3- TheLonging, animorpherv1, Slaxx

Sanhora -1- JacobSavage

Pomegranate -1- kmd4390

farside22 -3- Gayle, animorpherv1, Gheb

Gayle -2- DTMaster, Pomegranate

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

DEADLINE: Friday, February 12, 2010, at 8:00pm EST

animorpherv's new avatar scares the shit out of me.

---

CSL's 278 has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle...

This is why the mod shouldn't comment on discussion.

I think you are using it as an excuse though.

Explain clearly the reason you voted me, and the reason you unvoted.

@Farside:

Is the bottom of your 293 addressed to me? If it is you are still "misinterpreting" what I said. Also there is a difference between not listening and not agreeing.

[farside22]

CSL's 278 has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle...

This is why the mod shouldn't comment on discussion.

I think you are using it as an excuse though.

Explain clearly the reason you voted me, and the reason you unvoted.

@Farside:

Is the bottom of your 293 addressed to me? If it is you are still "misinterpreting" what I said. Also there is a difference between not listening and not agreeing.

No the bottom is the reason's I'm voting for morph.
sigh

[farside22]

@Farside:

Is the bottom of your 293 addressed to me? If it is you are still "misinterpreting" what I said. Also there is a difference between not listening and not agreeing.

Read the issues here. (1) your saying I'm misinterperting your post based on mislynch and saying someone is more likely town then scum because of %.
Is this wrong so far?
2) your saying you reconize now that he (mas) was avoiding but you want to pounce on the word purposely because you think purposely makes the fact he's avoiding the game worse or something?
If a player is avoiding a game how is it not on purpse? Please explain this becuase you have been holding this prove to me he was avoiding on purpose. When I showed he avoided the game that you have this attitude I can't even understand.

[Gayle]

No the bottom is the reason's I'm voting for morph.
sigh

But Farside, Morph never mentioned anything about percentages or odds.

[Gayle]

Read the issues here. (1) your saying I'm misinterperting your post based on mislynch and saying someone is more likely town then scum because of %. Is this wrong so far?

It is not exactly wrong, but it is a bit misleading. I was saying:
1 - There was too little information on Mavsfan to make an informed decision.
2 - That being so, lynching Mavsfan was a gamble.
3 - In that gamble, we were more likely to mislynch than lynch scum.

2) your saying you reconize now that he (mas) was avoiding but you want to pounce on the word purposely because you think purposely makes the fact he's avoiding the game worse or something?
If a player is avoiding a game how is it not on purpse? Please explain this becuase you have been holding this prove to me he was avoiding on purpose. When I showed he avoided the game that you have this attitude I can't even understand.

No, I don't recognize that he was avoiding the game. My whole argument was that we don't know if he was avoiding the game. The rest is semantics.

To try to put it clearly: It is impossible to know whether Mavsfan's lack of posts was intentional.



In other news, my lynch candidates are: KMD or Farside, because DTM never made it home.

[farside22]

Are you talking about this post?

It's hard to paraphrase what the mod said but the best I can do is him asking me if I saw the dude posting elsewhere.
I pointed to him the game I saw him in and left it at that.

unvote:
vote: animorph

I'm starting to get that this is a town on town argument. But I don't think Gayle listens. It's not about a replacement to me. I don't care that CSL got a replacement. I see a player that is posting elsewhere. Got prodded and ignoring this game it's scummy. Lack of post is a newbie scum tell.
The reason I'm voting morph.
misinterperts the purpose of the vote. Offers nothing to the game. Active lurkering. All equal's scum.

[farside22]

Sorry you were talking about this post.
Then yes this was directed to gayle. I got post # mixed up.

So let me get this straight you think he's town because of the odd's %
Doesn't that mean anyone in this game has the same odds of being town that you just gave mavsfan? You do realize that there are 2 scum groups that can't kill each other and may actually want to lynch a player from the opposite alignment?

[farside22]

Are you now backtracking from this? Are you now calling the mod a liar too?

farside22 wrote:
What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

[Gayle]

Are you now backtracking from this? Are you now calling the mod a liar too?

farside22 wrote:
What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

See, it is stuff like this that lead me to believe that you really aren't just misinterpreting things. My point is that no one, not me, not you, not the mod, can know why Mavsfan's wasn't posting. That being so, it is impossible to know whether he was deliberately not posting in this thread. I said "purposefully avoiding". You pointed out the word avoiding. I said the keyword is purposefully. Now you are arguing the semantics of something that means the same thing either way: We don't know why he wasn't here.

What exactly am I supposed to be backtracking from? 'Cause that has always been my argument.

[farside22]

What word would you call it if a player is posting elsewhere on MS and not posting in this game if not the word avoiding?

You said

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully

That above is you saying

No, I don't recognize that he was avoiding the game. My whole argument was that we don't know if he was avoiding the game. The rest is semantics.

You can't have both. You can't say well yes he's posting elsewhere and then not have a defination or word to describe the word of him not posting in this game?

[farside22]

Also You keep either on purpose or blindly missing my comment where I state that I saw him looking in little italy and did not post in this game before he was replaced.
What would you say about a player that does that?

[Gayle]

Also You keep either on purpose or blindly missing my comment where I state that I saw him looking in little italy and did not post in this game before he was replaced.
What would you say about a player that does that?

Farside, I am not missing your comment. I've already responded to similar effect of the reponse I am about to make: I would say he was posting in another game. That does not automatically mean he was avoiding this one. That does not automatically mean he is scum in this one.

This particular part of the argument is not going to get us anywhere. You are going to keep saying he was doing it on purpose, and I am going to keep saying we can't know if he was doing it on purpose. A proposal: Let's move on to something more productive.

[farside22]

Also You keep either on purpose or blindly missing my comment where I state that I saw him looking in little italy and did not post in this game before he was replaced.
What would you say about a player that does that?

Farside, I am not missing your comment. I've already responded to similar effect of the reponse I am about to make: I would say he was posting in another game. That does not automatically mean he was avoiding this one. That does not automatically mean he is scum in this one.

This particular part of the argument is not going to get us anywhere. You are going to keep saying he was doing it on purpose, and I am going to keep saying we can't know if he was doing it on purpose. A proposal: Let's move on to something more productive.

I'm voting morph you should join that vote.

[Gayle]

I'm voting morph you should join that vote.

I would rather vote KMD. Please consider the following:

-Votes DTM saying it was not a joke vote. When asked about his reasoning he responds "What do you think my reasoning is?"
-Votes Mavsfan because "[Mavsfan] confirmed after the day started, but didn't add anything else."
-Votes Gayle because "cuz it's gonna be a fun bandwagon and I don't want to miss it.". When asked about his reasoning
he responds "Well, it still has the new bandwagon smell, so I'm taking it for a test drive. Gotta say I like the way it handles so far.".
-Unvotes Gayle because "[the mod] has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle... "
-Votes Pom because "I have town reads on the other 2, and know myself to be town. Also, her posts are kinda scummy."
-He is also willing to lynch animorph "if people want to do that".

Please notice that every time there is a bandwagon, he is there.

[farside22]

@gayle: Let me read up on kmd in isolation, but please do the same for morph

[farside22]

My isolated read of kmd:

Kmd why did you think what DTMaster's post was scummy?
I notice looking at KMD in isolation he has scum reads on Gayle (doesn't say why) morph (again no reason)
I think saying this:

Unvote, Vote Gayle cuz it's gonna be a fun bandwagon and I don't want to miss it.

Well, it still has the new bandwagon smell, so I'm taking it for a test drive. Gotta say I like the way it handles so far.

Gayle, placing the vote was enough to make you get all defensive. I think it served it's purpose.

Got to ask what do you expect any player to react when you give no reason for a vote?

Reason for voting for pom:

Vote Pom since I have town reads on the other 2, and know myself to be town. Also, her posts are kinda scummy.

Again no attached or viable reason given for thinking Pom = scum
The only post that showed any promise from KMD was the post he talked about those he thought were town and scum.
Most of his scum reads look to be gut but after words he hasnt' stated a viable reason why anyone of the players he voted for was scum.

in short: No reasoning, lack of scum hunting, voting for weak reason's. This doesn't not read Kmd town at all to me.

[TheLonging]

I was planning to post earlier. Oh well, I'm here now.

@TheLonging
-Can you elaborate more on your thoughts of Random Voting after the RVS?
-What reads did you have at the time of post 120? Because I haven't found anything from you at all.

1. You mean slaxx's random voting? I found it at the time to be bad, because I didn't really consider it RVS at all at the time. It did lead us out of the setup discussion and into real scumhunting mode, so I guess it did help us out. If you mean in general, I think it's a bad thing, especially if people are trying to scumhunt and all of a sudden someone random votes. I'd be pretty suspicious of that person.

2. I thought DTM was pretty town tbh, as well as Gheb. For scum reads, mavs because he was suspicious of no one and contributed nothing, and I thought (at the time) Slaxx because of randomly voting.

Some questions for you as well.
1. How come you didn't vote Slaxx, while thinking he was scummy?
2. Why did you vote Mavs over Slaxx, while Mavs was guilty of not contributing and Slaxx being guilty of not contributing and random voting?

1. I'm pretty sure I came back to see his post quite a few posts after accusing him of bandwagoning. I voiced my suspicion but later realized that it gave more relevant discussion then the setup discussion, so I didn't vote.

2. Because mavs contributed jack. Didn't name anyone he thought was suspicious, didn't try to help with scumhunting, avoided the game...

Vote: animorph

He hasn't done a lot. He's lurking, not even posting a lot when he does post, not sharing his thoughts...

my 2nd choice for suspicious people are dtm for bandwagoning so much throughout the day

[DTMaster]

@Gayle
1.I think you need to re-evaluate the case by answering this question:

Why would Farside/DTM-scum push so hard on a Mavs lynch in a near deadline situation? Then evaluate: What would you have done in a near deadline situation in terms of lynching? Finally: If you find that you resolve on the same conclusion that I did, could a townie push for a lynch like that in the near deadline situation that CSL imposed?

The deadline extension and replacement announcement happened

well after the wagon was rolling already

You are implying that we should have known before the whole L-2 situation that CSL was going to graciously grant us an extension when he said:

I am satisfied with what happened between 10pm and now! Keep up the posting, because what you do now decides how long the deadline WOULD be on Day 2 if you guys deserve one.

I'm quoting the mod to prove that context is especially important in this game. You are ignoring context. Why? Pom summerized this quite nicely.


@Gheb
1. He critzes but doesn't actually give the town alternatives in what he would have done. It's more like a point and say: OMG X IS SCUMMY because HE ATTACKED Y for Z ARGUMENT WHICH IS WEAK. Gayle doesn't address Z argument in the context of my posts, which is still being spammed down by the whole:

YOU DIDN"T HAVE ENOUGH INFO FOR Z SO YOU CAN'T CALL HIM SCUM, BUT HE COULD BE.

@TheLonging
1. Um. Bandwagon = tools of the trade. Also I was the first to attack Mavs and clarified why the opposing wagon wasn't necessary. Where do you see my wagon?

@Ani
ITT Ani is coasting. If Ani flips scum: Mavs/Sanh is most likely not part of the same faction as him.

[farside22]

DT: What are your thoughts on kmd?
Do you think morph is scum?
Sorry I forgot who your voting. Arguing does this to me. Feedback is helpful.

[Gayle]

DTM, what are you going on about?

[Gheb]

@Gheb
1. He critzes but doesn't actually give the town alternatives in what he would have done. It's more like a point and say: OMG X IS SCUMMY because HE ATTACKED Y for Z ARGUMENT WHICH IS WEAK. Gayle doesn't address Z argument in the context of my posts, which is still being spammed down by the whole:

YOU DIDN"T HAVE ENOUGH INFO FOR Z SO YOU CAN'T CALL HIM SCUM, BUT HE COULD BE.

That doesn't change my opinion of farside and KMD at all. I'm not saying that Gayle's play isn't suspicous enough to warrant a lynch. I'm saying that the same also applies to KMD / farside IMHO. I'm not saying "Gayle is town so his wagoners are scum". I'm saying "farside's/KMD's arguments and the way they have jumped on the Gayle wagon are pretty suspicous to me." It has nothing to do with assuming that Gayle may or may not be scum - with two mafia fractions scum can still hunt scum themselves so it

could

be a mafia vs mafia debate. My point is that they're making him a scapegoat which is typical behaviour of - you guessed it - the mafia.

And I still don't get why farside argues most of the day with Gayle about how mavsfan's play was anti-town when he votes Gayle for not agreeing. That's a clear contradiction of what she's advocating and of what she's actually doing.

[farside22]

And I still don't get why farside argues most of the day with Gayle about how mavsfan's play was anti-town when he votes Gayle for not agreeing. That's a clear contradiction of what she's advocating and of what she's actually doing.

I got the impression if you read the argument that Gayle was saying that mavsfan was town and had inside knowledge of that. That was orginally why I voted for her. The rest is us going back and forth on who misinterperted who. She things I misinterpts what she said. She wanted to hold out that mavsfan isn't avoiding the game but doesnt' want to place a word for a player that post elsewhere and doesn't post here. (the word is avoid by the way) I stated why I believe newbie scum wouldn't post in a game. Her argument is I'm twisting her words. We both agree to disagree and I'm voting morph.

Hope this helps all who wish to skip the argument completely.

[TheLonging]

@TheLonging
1. Um. Bandwagon = tools of the trade. Also I was the first to attack Mavs and clarified why the opposing wagon wasn't necessary. Where do you see my wagon?

I ment kmd

[CSL]

Held up by the time I said I would do a votecount. I've been tired, actually, so will REALLY have a votecount sometime tonight.

[Gayle]

Just saw morph's new avatar. Go ahead and lynch him guys.