Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[Papa Zito]

There's a trooper.

[MadCrawdad]

Sorry. Yes. I checked to see that she was posting and not gone from the site. That's why I voted her. She seemed to be ignoring the thread. It wasn't a lynchable issue until she LIED about her whereabouts. I didn't actually count and divide her posts until she made her claim of

only

posting in her modded game.

I voted her for "ignoring" the thread. She said she wasn't. That was a lie. Therefore the "pressure" vote turned into a "serious" vote.

Had she come back with a believable excuse I would have unvoted her. Had she said, "Sorry for ignoring the thread, I just wanted to see some reactions to my wagon, here is my analysis." Then That would have made sense to me. She claimed to not have time for mafia and yet she was consistently posting in several threads.

But if you're truly looking to apply pressure, doesn't announcing a future target before hearing from her remove that pressure?

----------

I read back through and I'm not seeing much to change my mind here.

Crawdad, is RBT still your #2?

Yes. I'm not liking the way he's continually popping in with one-liners, parroting others, and not explaining any of the thoughts behind his conclusions.

----------

unvote, vote Narnian

I was trying to see who would put Evil at L-1 thinking that one of Evil's partners wouldn't hammer as much as just get on teh wagon at L-1. When Narnian voted after me I thought I had a partner, now I am just thinking I have a scum and Evil himself has dropped to a neutral zone for me. I believe Narnian's latest post to be what has changed my mind:

I have to admit my play has been a bit lazy today. I ended up with a lurker vote and then an OMGUS vote because there was a wagon there. Day 2 should have more evidence out there than that.

Alot of RL stuff going on, but Ill certainly look more closely to see if I can find better conculusions.

He excuses himself for being lazy, then admits his vote against me was purely lurker, and then his Evil vote was just OMGUS

because there was a wagon there

. He put a person at L-1, and Evil could have very well claimed a PR because Narnian placed what he called an OMGUS vote on him, what townie would place a OMGUS vote on someone bringing them to L-1, and especially just because there is a wagon there? None that I know of.

Definitely odd. IMO someone being lazy would be more likely to do nothing, as opposed to doing something rash, such as putting another player at L-1 for no real reason. Looking forward to Narninian's response.

[Kdub]

Vote Count

Riceballtail (0)

-

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (2)

- manho, MadCrawdad

HackerHuck (0)

-

Papa Zito (0)

-

wolframnhart (0)

-

Narninian (2)

- evilsnail, wolframnhart

manho (0)

-

evilsnail (3)

- Papa Zito, HackerHuck, Riceballtail

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- kikuchiyo, Narninian

9 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is February 19, ~ 8:00 pm MST.

[evilsnail]

VOTE:EvilSnail

I like the thought of keeping this pressure up. It's yielding good results.

Like what?

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:EvilSnail

I like the thought of keeping this pressure up. It's yielding good results.

Like what?

Like giving me a better view on which one of you two (Snail/Kiku) is scum.

[evilsnail]

More of an explanation, please.

[kikuchiyo]

HH: Questions usually have question marks at the end. Your post read like a statement. In any case, I explained in my post that I would be posting my pbpa later. That means... later. I only have a few minutes right now, but I will have it up as soon as I can, hopefully by tonight.

Madcraw: I agree. Which is exactly what made Starbuck's response all the more puzzling. As I said, there were a number of responses which could have alleviated the pressure. She lied. That didn't make any sense to me.

My vote is still on Snail in spirit. My next post will explain why.

Back to work.

[manho]

i really don't have anything to add, as kiku ask me not to interrupt her investigation against snail, but i really think kiku is the scum starting to back-pedal when the snail-wagon start to fall.

[kikuchiyo]

i really don't have anything to add,

as kiku ask me not to interrupt her investigation against snail

, but i really think kiku is the scum starting to back-pedal when the snail-wagon start to fall.

A) Where and how is kiku backpedaling? Please provide quotes and/or post references as to this accusation and explain how it is scummy.

B) The bolded is an example of you not taking responsibility for your personal level of contribution. This reads as though I am somehow responsible for the fact that you "have nothing to add".

Back home now. Get back to this soon.

[kikuchiyo]

I didn't really understand Wolf's initial Starbuck vote. It was something about Starbuck saying Sibelius was lurking that I didn't quite get. But anyway, I'm voting Narn for the way in which he voted, not the purported reasons.

Yes. You've mentioned that. The question was why vote Narn when Wolf's vote was less well reasoned. Wolf's vote was interesting, to say the least, but his post clearly states what he is questioning in regards to Starbuck's play. Not sure why you "didn't quite get" what he was saying. But as I said, this is of lesser importance.

Hmm, well I could go with putting him below you as well, because he's mostly going by other people's cases. That said, there's nothing in principle wrong with that. I mostly put your vote below his because I don't think avoiding the thread is at all a scum tell. I've done it myself as townie, mostly in situations in which I feel like my defense is falling on deaf ears or when discussions with the players attacking me aren't particularly constructive (because of stubbornness, abrasiveness or whatever). It's actually sometimes easier to answer attacks as scum, because at least you don't have the frustration of being falsely accused.

I voted her for avoiding the thread. I lynched her for lieing about it. Please don't blend the two together. Had she replied honestly, the pressure would have most likely dissipated(at least from me). As for RBT's Starbuck vote: he's not "mostly" going with other peoples cases. He is going with other people's cases. He adds nothing original to the debate. Also, his iso 13 seems to imply that he isn't buying the case on Starbuck and that he simply thinks she needs to claim. Your interpretation here puzzles me.

Anyway, RBT's play: he was one of the first to go after manho, then hopped onto the Starbuck wagon citing the cases developed on her, went back to manho after Starbuck claimed and the wagon lost a little bit of momentum and then hammered Starbuck. Except for the lurking in between, which makes this play a little opportunistic, this is essentially similar to what other players did Day 1. I can see what is grating about this play, because contribution is quite scarce and it's difficult to read him, but I don't think it's a scum tell.

Which "other players" rode both wagons, asked for both claims, and hammered Starbuck? If his low contribution and "oppurtunistic" play aren't a scumtell, how do you suggest we figure out his alignment?

Looking back, his first vote today was a bit off. It's a bit weird that he said he didn't expect Starbuck to turn up scum and his vote for you wasn't that inspiring (the fact that Starbuck was town doesn't mean she was right about who is scum). But yeah, I stand by my original assessment of his lurkish play.

Again, here we have a slough of odd behavior and yet you stand by your assessment. What puzzles me most, is the fact you are also ignoring RBT's acquiescence to lynch either you or I(not sure if he still has that stance). Couple that with the rest of his behavior and I can't understand why townevilsnail would continue to ignore RBT. You are either buddying a townie, or distancing from a scumpartner. Either way, your actions here are scummy.

RBT's decision to keep the pressure on your wagon is probably his biggest towniepoint gainer imo so far. The only other "protown" post I can really credit him with is where he doesn't push for the Susan counterclaim on day 1.

Also, Wolf's wagon jump is a bit off. I don't see why the read went from scum/scum to scum/town based solely on Narninians actions. He could just as easily be backing off his scumpartners wagon as backing off a townie wagon. His initial Snail vote was to "test a theory". Now he is implying it was a gambit? Odd.

Vote: Evilsnail

I am okay with a claim here.

[evilsnail]

That's it? That's what this questioning has been building up to? If you interrogate anyone about their assumptions you can long enough, you can find things to twist and turn into a case.

This whole case is only based on the fact that I disagree about RBT. You're acting as if a pro-town player cannot call something a null tell.

I simply disagree that RBT's Day 1 play was that scummy. It is largely consistent, if you look at it. He initially votes for manho (on the basis of an observation he himself makes, btw), then he switches to Starbuck because he agrees with the case. Except for the fact that there is not much contribution in between, I really don't see what the big deal is. Ergo, null tell.

It's not like I've been defending RBT at length. This is all based on one off-hand comment I made that you've spent a great deal of time and effort blowing way out of proportion.

Also, I'm not ignoring RBT today. I'm waiting for him to justify his vote for me, because I can't possibly see how you can think "good results" have come out of this discussion. It's not like other players have paid more attention to him.

Btw, how is "keeping pressure on the wagon" a pro-town move on the part of RBT? He's not adding any content, he's basically just following you. The same thing you accuse him of doing Day 1 and are voting me for thinking a null tell.

[kikuchiyo]

Its not about his day 1 play. Its about you comparing your suspicions of the players involved. It's not adding up for me, and if you flip scum I have a good idea of at least one of your partners.

I suggest you claim. You are at L-1 again and there is no guarantee that you won't be hammered here. If you are someone we can't lynch then we need to know.

That's it? That's what this questioning has been building up to?

I'm not a magician. Not sure what you expected here. Questioning doesn't have to "build" to anything. Its a way to get information into the thread for present and future use.

RBT's keeping the pressure on exhibits to me that he is more likely not one of your partners. Scum has little to gain by pulling such a move(unless of course RBT is partners with Narninian). As of yet, I find yours and Wolf's play scummier. I kind of have town divided into a couple groups here. If I'm wrong, anyone is welcome to defend you, attack me, attack someone else, etc. As it stands, I think you should claim.

[evilsnail]

Fine. I'm effing Aslan. So well done!

Can we get to the real scumhunting now?

I suggest we look at the people who you gave an easy wagon to latch on to. I have a feeling you're just misguided town, but I'm pretty sure there's scum in there.

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote

Interesting...

Counterclaim should definitely happen if this is fake.

[Papa Zito]

. . .

So now we have to decide if snail really is Aslan or he's scum trying to draw out the most powerful townie in the game.

Great.

Snail, moar info plz.

[manho]

Snail, moar info plz.

no, we need to see if CC happen first. we can save the power claim if no CC come forward.

[kikuchiyo]

Aslan, four Pevensie children, two beavers. Rumblebuffin. That's 8/9 town roles. I have to embrace the idea that Edmund could be a traitor role of some sort, but he does end up as a king in the end. That really only leaves one town role out there.

I would like a counterclaim before any info is divulged, but in a game this size we really need to focus on lynching correctly today. If Aslan has investigative powers then his results need to be public before night. Townies are rarely guaranteed survival as there are scum roles which trump even protection.

I am puzzled here, but I have to say that this claim upends alot of my thoughts. We need some more participation. Without a counterclaim it may be safe to say that scum hasn't needed to be involved all that much in this game which can help us narrow down a lynch pool to our lurkers and low contributors.

evilsnail: You stated you think scum is pushing your wagon. Can you analyze your wagon for us? Give us a breakdown of your thoughts? For instance, what makes you think I am "misguided town"?

[evilsnail]

Papa Zito, there won't be a counterclaim and I will only reveal info about my role if necessary. You're not going to get anything out of me that easily.

Btw, could you link me to a completed game in which you were town?

Kiku, my breakdown of my wagon:
Papa Zito - has basically tunnelled on my wagon, contributing mostly fluff about wanting me dead. He's been using the pressure you put on me as an excuse not to contribute.
RBT - voted me because of "good results" that he has failed to outline
Narninian - voted me because he didn't like my case on him, then unvoted when pressured.
wolf - voted me on the basis of a flimsy scum group theory, then unvoted when pressured.
HackerHuck - seems to have some okay reasons at least, though he has not contributed much since voting me.
Kiku - I have a feeling you're more likely misguided town because of the amount of effort you've put into this. Scum would know that that would come back to bite them. Of all the votes, yours is probably the most reasoned one and I believe at least that you're genuinely suspicious of me, even if I disagree that you should be.

Anyway, I believe there's scum on my wagon, because you're basically the only one actively contributing anything, because two of the votes were so weak that mild pressure was enough to get an unvote and because some of the votes are so lazy. This should worry you too.

[Papa Zito]

Snail, moar info plz.

no, we need to see if CC happen first. we can save the power claim if no CC come forward.

Here's my thinking.

1. He really is Aslan. As such, there's no damn way he lives through the night, so a full claim doesn't hurt anything.
2. He's scum trying to out the real Aslan. We may be able to catch him in his lie by forcing him to fully claim, thus protecting the real Aslan.

So I'd rather have the whole thing.

tw, could you link me to a completed game in which you were town?

Check my wiki. I need to update it a bit but there's a ton for you to choose from.

Also, if snail is town then I agree there's very likely scum on the wagon.

[evilsnail]

Except if my role is such that a full claim is a bad idea.

Aside from this, I actually like the above post.

[Papa Zito]

Except if my role is such that a full claim is a bad idea.

Hmm. I can think of a few scenarios where this is the case.

I'm going to wait to see if a CC materializes. In the meantime, time to go reread I guess.

[kikuchiyo]

Vote: Wolframnhart

I'm starting here. Post some iso later.

[Kdub]

MadCrawdad has requested replacement.

Vote Count

Riceballtail (0)

-

MadCrawdad (0)

-

kikuchiyo (2)

- manho, MadCrawdad

HackerHuck (0)

-

Papa Zito (0)

-

wolframnhart (1)

- kikuchiyo

Narninian (2)

- evilsnail, wolframnhart

manho (0)

-

evilsnail (3)

- Papa Zito, HackerHuck, Riceballtail

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- Narninian

9 votes available, 5 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is February 19, ~ 8:00 pm MST.

[Papa Zito]

UGH.

Why are all you clowns so freaking scummy? WHERE ARE ALL THE TOWNIES AT?

vote: RBT

[manho]

UGH.

Why are all you clowns so freaking scummy? WHERE ARE ALL THE TOWNIES AT?

vote: RBT

will you give us the reason? and i really think we can save the alsan claim first before the CC.